Trade Discussion 22/23

[SOUNDCHASER]

I do not want to help PHO improve their team at all. There are cheaper ways to make a team better and to add a center or 2. Your clearing out pieces we could keep if we had the smarts to just draft the best center prospects in the draft after Wemby.

At the TDL we can use Bullocks and Bertans expiring contracts to add another center and spend that money without raising the cap if the salaries are close enough to match up. Maybe then a team with a center we might prefer is deciding that they need to blow it all up and rebuild so they send that center our way just for our expiring contracts

[Mr B]

I haven’t read every post in the thread but has anyone mentioned Miami as a possible trade partner if Kyrie prefers a sign and trade? There are rumors that they are looking to shake things up (but still contend). Also read a rumor that they might be willing to move Bam. Not sure if that’s true or not.

Read on Twitter

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[Teffer10]

I haven’t read every post in the thread but has anyone mentioned Miami as a possible trade partner if Kyrie prefers a sign and trade? There are rumors that they are looking to shake things up (but still contend). Also read a rumor that they might be willing to move Bam. Not sure if that’s true or not.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=3KaI_3QT7XTTm5N8gt4yQg

Miami might be one of the few potential trade partners for Kyrie.

[Teffer10]

A minor move the Mavs might consider to help address our center issue is Udoka Azubuike.
Utah has a team option for about 4 mil so they might move on from him.
He's a legit 7 footer at 280 lbs. and is pretty mobile and athletic for his size. He also has an incredible 7'7" WS and is younger than Luka.

He'd be a nice cheap backup and gives us what we desperately need right now.

[Maverick41]

A minor move the Mavs might consider to help address our center issue is Udoka Azubuike.
Utah has a team option for about 4 mil so they might move on from him.
He's a legit 7 footer at 280 lbs. and is pretty mobile and athletic for his size. He also has an incredible 7'7" WS and is younger than Luka.

He'd be a nice cheap backup and gives us what we desperately need right now.

I've had my eye on him for a while too. If we don't draft a big, I'd love to have him on a cheap try out deal. Think it's always nice to have at least 1 athletic young big on the roster.

[Mavrelous]

I haven’t read every post in the thread but has anyone mentioned Miami as a possible trade partner if Kyrie prefers a sign and trade? There are rumors that they are looking to shake things up (but still contend). Also read a rumor that they might be willing to move Bam. Not sure if that’s true or not.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=3KaI_3QT7XTTm5N8gt4yQg

He's not a go to player offensively, but he's a game changer defensively and a great garbage man on offense (similar to AD).
I doubt there is any truth to this report.

[SOUNDCHASER]

You won't need to trade for Udoka he is a free agent and was told they would not offer him another contract and I was wanting him also and that would be a nice guy to bring in and pay a low amount to that could dunk it and not shoot free throws well.

The nice thing about Edey is he is a 73.4% free throw shooter and teams can't just foul him at the end of games to make him shoot and miss.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

He can also be used to get high % shots inside that sort of stretch the defense the other way since teams will have to put 2 men or one great interior defender on him so they can defend him getting to near the basket and becoming an automatic basket that all but guarantees you an easy set shot from 3 from our best shooters which Green and Irving seem to shoot 3's pretty well and hopefully Hardy gets his 3 ball falling at a much higher % this season or the easy basket inside is going to be made a lot closer to 100% of the time.

I mean Luka is ok in crunch from 3 but lets face it he takes a lot crazy wild 3's at the end of quarters and in desperation so his % would be a lot higher if he avoided those shots and to me those shots don't hurt you anyway unless you could have passed it inside to get a giant like Edey to have an easy dunk.

That is the thing Edey does for you he keeps you sane with inside scoring that causes other teams to over focus on interior defense and with his youth and athleticism he is light years more usable than Boban.

Boban got old and slow and we had him playing when he was already is a steep decline. When he was younger he gave the league a lot of trouble and nobody could stop him from having a huge scoring night on a lot of nights.

He was 27 years old when he came over from Europe.

Now, If you wanted to stash Edey in Europe and let him play a few years over there and then bring him back that is a better option to use than not take a flyer on him.

Then when he shows he can hang with the pros you have a guy to bring over and make the league regret that they did not draft him.

How much are 2nd round picks worth anyway?

The leagues style of play was kind of invented by GSW but even they tried to get real centers on their team they just can't get lucky in finding a good one and draft guys that have health issues like they did with Wiseman and Looney has become a good option for them but to me his game is kind of like that of a PF that cannot shoot well. He is not going to stop larger guys from dominating.

Valanciunas is an example of what Edey can do except Edey is larger than him. Look at Zach's highlight videos he can find open men and get assists already and his blocks with his low fouling % is a nice thing to count on. Most rookies foul a lot but he already has learned how to play without fouling.

You put a guy like Looney on Edey and it will be easy baskets for Zach all night long and he will score 30 on GSW.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/trade-value-rankings-4-0-the-top-20-centers-in-the-nba/ We can try to use our expiring guys as something to find a center that is more known at the TDL and give up Green in the deal to give a team on the rebuild something of value if that center is actually worth something.

[SOUNDCHASER]

All these suggested trades for veteran centers are not happening.

Those teams will not blow their team up by trading off their center. Centers are held onto most all of the time.

They acquired that center usually in the draft or they traded for him by giving up another center or overpaid on a lot of talent going back with a lot of picks.

If you are thinking that some play off team is going to provide us their starting center without us sending out a large amount of talent and overspending on him then your not thinking correctly.

Look at how Utah now has centers and what they got when they gave Gobert to MINN.

You have to have assets like that to get a top level center.

You have to draft them or they do not exist on your team at all. So you had better draft them. Also if they do trade you one it is usually after they have been constantly injured and slowed down by their injuries so that they are far less effective on defense like when we finally got Boban in free agency. Also teams have centers that do not win games that they tend to struggle to win with. Usually undersized and these guys are stat chasers to get paid and then they let their team down because they cannot win with him and they get stuck with them because other teams cannot see them winning with those usually undersized centers either and for that $$$ they would rather draft a younger bigger guy. You have to be stacked at 1 through 4 to win with a small center.

[SOUNDCHASER]

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[SOUNDCHASER]

Sounds like someone is trying to scam Mark Cuban and get him to overspend on an old 32 year old center that has already seen his better days come and go away. He is not 7' he is 6'10.

[Mr B]

All these suggested trades for veteran centers are not happening.

Those teams will not blow their team up by trading off their center. Centers are held onto most all of the time.

They acquired that center usually in the draft or they traded for him by giving up another center or overpaid on a lot of talent going back with a lot of picks.

If you are thinking that some play off team is going to provide us their starting center without us sending out a large amount of talent and overspending on him then your not thinking correctly.

Look at how Utah now has centers and what they got when they gave Gobert to MINN.

You have to have assets like that to get a top level center.

You have to draft them or they do not exist on your team at all. So you had better draft them. Also if they do trade you one it is usually after they have been constantly injured and slowed down by their injuries so that they are far less effective on defense like when we finally got Boban in free agency. Also teams have centers that do not win games that they tend to struggle to win with. Usually undersized and these guys are stat chasers to get paid and then they let their team down because they cannot win with him and they get stuck with them because other teams cannot see them winning with those usually undersized centers either and for that $$$ they would rather draft a younger bigger guy. You have to be stacked at 1 through 4 to win with a small center.

There’s no doubt that long the best decision for this team would be to draft a center (or two). I don’t think they have the patience to groom that center though.

The most attainable centers are going to come off teams that are bad or are failing. Or if the center is flawed in some way. Think of Tyson Chandler. He was on a failing Bobcats team and was coming off a series of injuries. His value was pretty low. What centers out there fit that mold?

[Teffer10]

A minor move the Mavs might consider to help address our center issue is Udoka Azubuike.
Utah has a team option for about 4 mil so they might move on from him.
He's a legit 7 footer at 280 lbs. and is pretty mobile and athletic for his size. He also has an incredible 7'7" WS and is younger than Luka.

He'd be a nice cheap backup and gives us what we desperately need right now.

I've had my eye on him for a while too. If we don't draft a big, I'd love to have him on a cheap try out deal. Think it's always nice to have at least 1 athletic young big on the roster.

Yeah, considering we only had one 7 footer on the roster this past season, it would be nice to have some other options and backups.
This deferring to Powell crap has got to change unless they want to be at the bottom of the league in rebounding and interior defense.

[SOUNDCHASER]

All these suggested trades for veteran centers are not happening.

Those teams will not blow their team up by trading off their center. Centers are held onto most all of the time.

They acquired that center usually in the draft or they traded for him by giving up another center or overpaid on a lot of talent going back with a lot of picks.

If you are thinking that some play off team is going to provide us their starting center without us sending out a large amount of talent and overspending on him then your not thinking correctly.

Look at how Utah now has centers and what they got when they gave Gobert to MINN.

You have to have assets like that to get a top level center.

You have to draft them or they do not exist on your team at all. So you had better draft them. Also if they do trade you one it is usually after they have been constantly injured and slowed down by their injuries so that they are far less effective on defense like when we finally got Boban in free agency. Also teams have centers that do not win games that they tend to struggle to win with. Usually undersized and these guys are stat chasers to get paid and then they let their team down because they cannot win with him and they get stuck with them because other teams cannot see them winning with those usually undersized centers either and for that $$$ they would rather draft a younger bigger guy. You have to be stacked at 1 through 4 to win with a small center.

There’s no doubt that long the best decision for this team would be to draft a center (or two). I don’t think they have the patience to groom that center though.

The most attainable centers are going to come off teams that are bad or are failing. Or if the center is flawed in some way. Think of Tyson Chandler. He was on a failing Bobcats team and was coming off a series of injuries. His value was pretty low. What centers out there fit that mold?

The recent rumor about Vucevic getting traded to Dallas is upsetting to me.

Vuc is not what this team needs. Only 6'10 and he is clearly on the downside of his career and will be useless in a few more years. To bet the farm on him is insane and you might as well pack Luka's bags to go play for someone else.

The rookie centers I would rather have on the team are way better options that are available in the draft for less money with our pick/picks as the case may be. They will be more useful and a lot cheaper to groom into useful players.

Sure you may waste a year getting them acclimated to the NBA. I mean if you have Kidd coaching them they won't get to play anyway as some seem to say because Kidd hates playing centers but then if that is the case we need to hope that he gets exposed for not being a good coach so we can fire him finally and just get onto the process of hiring a real coach so the team will be better long term.

Adding some old 32 year old undersized veteran center who wants to get paid tens of millions while barely being able to walk as he does a Dirk imitation when he was in his last year on the court is going to remind Luka of how badly the mavs wasted Dirks years failing to build a real team around him and then we will see Luka leave because the team you want built around him is needing a wheelchair to play.

7'4 300 pound centers that win every award for best player in all of college basketball are not going to come along to be gift wrapped for us very often.

You can add that rookie with a 2nd round pick stash the guy in Europe or Frisco for a year or 2 and see how well he fits in up in Frisco. That way you can use your first to draft a PF/ SF like Gregory Jackson at 16 if trading down and add in 28 as well or you can stand pat with 10 to snag Taylor Hendricks if he falls to us. the second rounder we got last year in a trade was a smart move and we need to exert ourselves to do that kind of deal one more time to use that pick on Edey.

Then when you trade down to get 16 and 18 you might be able to add Gregory Jackson and Lively as well.

Let Utah snag someone at 10 who will fit with their team better and if they want too we can add a few players to help them out as well because we need to get rid of old guys like Holiday Bullock Hardaway Frank McGee Kleber Bertans.

I honestly think you might need to hope nobody wants to take Wood off our hands because we are not going to be able to trust that Cuban can find something better.

Its all conjecture at this point anyway because we all need to see what pick we end up with hell we may win the lottery and get 1st pick and that solves a lot of issues. Now that would make my day and I would dance an Irish jig and I am not Irish.

If Cuban pays Irving a lot of money all we can do to add other players is trades for players that in most cases are as bad as what we already have and vet mins so nothing special and after we use up our TPMLE and maybe we get a BAE to use every once in a while the only hope is that we get lucky with draft picks. The Draft picks become real important to use and keep when your hands are tied by the salary cap so you are screwed if you include your picks in a trade.

Look at how long it took LA to figure it out with both Davis and Bronda.

[41Dirk41]

Vuc isn't the answer of our problems for sure but at least he is a good rebounder with size and he can scores.

After 4 years of Powell it's like to have Kareem

[Mr B]

All these suggested trades for veteran centers are not happening.

Those teams will not blow their team up by trading off their center. Centers are held onto most all of the time.

They acquired that center usually in the draft or they traded for him by giving up another center or overpaid on a lot of talent going back with a lot of picks.

If you are thinking that some play off team is going to provide us their starting center without us sending out a large amount of talent and overspending on him then your not thinking correctly.

Look at how Utah now has centers and what they got when they gave Gobert to MINN.

You have to have assets like that to get a top level center.

You have to draft them or they do not exist on your team at all. So you had better draft them. Also if they do trade you one it is usually after they have been constantly injured and slowed down by their injuries so that they are far less effective on defense like when we finally got Boban in free agency. Also teams have centers that do not win games that they tend to struggle to win with. Usually undersized and these guys are stat chasers to get paid and then they let their team down because they cannot win with him and they get stuck with them because other teams cannot see them winning with those usually undersized centers either and for that $$$ they would rather draft a younger bigger guy. You have to be stacked at 1 through 4 to win with a small center.

There’s no doubt that long the best decision for this team would be to draft a center (or two). I don’t think they have the patience to groom that center though.

The most attainable centers are going to come off teams that are bad or are failing. Or if the center is flawed in some way. Think of Tyson Chandler. He was on a failing Bobcats team and was coming off a series of injuries. His value was pretty low. What centers out there fit that mold?

The recent rumor about Vucevic getting traded to Dallas is upsetting to me.

Vuc is not what this team needs. Only 6'10 and he is clearly on the downside of his career and will be useless in a few more years. To bet the farm on him is insane and you might as well pack Luka's bags to go play for someone else.

The rookie centers I would rather have on the team are way better options that are available in the draft for less money with our pick/picks as the case may be. They will be more useful and a lot cheaper to groom into useful players.

Sure you may waste a year getting them acclimated to the NBA. I mean if you have Kidd coaching them they won't get to play anyway as some seem to say because Kidd hates playing centers but then if that is the case we need to hope that he gets exposed for not being a good coach so we can fire him finally and just get onto the process of hiring a real coach so the team will be better long term.

Adding some old 32 year old undersized veteran center who wants to get paid tens of millions while barely being able to walk as he does a Dirk imitation when he was in his last year on the court is going to remind Luka of how badly the mavs wasted Dirks years failing to build a real team around him and then we will see Luka leave because the team you want built around him is needing a wheelchair to play.

7'4 300 pound centers that win every award for best player in all of college basketball are not going to come along to be gift wrapped for us very often.

You can add that rookie with a 2nd round pick stash the guy in Europe or Frisco for a year or 2 and see how well he fits in up in Frisco. That way you can use your first to draft a PF/ SF like Gregory Jackson at 16 if trading down and add in 28 as well or you can stand pat with 10 to snag Taylor Hendricks if he falls to us. the second rounder we got last year in a trade was a smart move and we need to exert ourselves to do that kind of deal one more time to use that pick on Edey.

Then when you trade down to get 16 and 18 you might be able to add Gregory Jackson and Lively as well.

Let Utah snag someone at 10 who will fit with their team better and if they want too we can add a few players to help them out as well because we need to get rid of old guys like Holiday Bullock Hardaway Frank McGee Kleber Bertans.

I honestly think you might need to hope nobody wants to take Wood off our hands because we are not going to be able to trust that Cuban can find something better.

Its all conjecture at this point anyway because we all need to see what pick we end up with hell we may win the lottery and get 1st pick and that solves a lot of issues. Now that would make my day and I would dance an Irish jig and I am not Irish.

If Cuban pays Irving a lot of money all we can do to add other players is trades for players that in most cases are as bad as what we already have and vet mins so nothing special and after we use up our TPMLE and maybe we get a BAE to use every once in a while the only hope is that we get lucky with draft picks. The Draft picks become real important to use and keep when your hands are tied by the salary cap so you are screwed if you include your picks in a trade.

Look at how long it took LA to figure it out with both Davis and Bronda.

I agree that Vucevic isn’t the answer. Phoenix seems to be getting really tired of Ayton. Personally I’m not an Ayton fan either. The Pacers are a fan of his though. I know teams don’t just willingly give up good centers but I’m wondering if there is something that can be done to send Ayton to Indy, Kyrie to Phoenix, and Turner to Dallas. Obviously other pieces will have to be included considering Kyrie will much more than either Ayton or Turner.

[Jg41]

If I were Dallas, I'd focus on teams who went all in this year and traded all their chips on the table but failed. Namely, that's Minny for Gobert and Cleveland for Donovan Mitchell. Those teams have zero cap space and zero picks left but still find it lacking to win anything. They will be the first to make changes.

Agreed. If the lottery gods are favorable and we move up to 4, the best, most realistic transaction among those two teams for us:

DAL ===> T. Hardaway Jr. / J. McGee / 4th Overall Pick / 6MM Cash
CLE ===> J. Allen / '24 2nd via GSW / '26 2nd via LAL

Call up NYK to remove the protections on the '24 1st to free up our '25 2nd to include in a trade. Then we can package our 3 2nds with Bertans and Bullock to BKN for Dodo / Patty Mills / D. Sharpe. Bertans can be bought out and Bullock only has half his contract guaranteed if he's waived before the league year starts. This move lets them shed over 15MM in payroll this year in order to retain Cam Johnson without having to dip into the luxury tax. They pick up 3 2nds in the process and move off of three assets that will only continue to depreciate if left on their roster.

Resign Kyrie / Sign M. Thybulle for a deal slightly above the TPMLE but below the full MLE (i.e. 3yrs 25MM) / Fill out the roster with logical Vet Mins. This payroll keeps us juuuust below the luxury tax (and well below the apron) provided we can convince Kyrie to take a couple million discount from his 47MM max:

PG: L. Doncic (35) / P. Mills
SG: K. Irving (35) / J. Hardy (25) / T. Pinson
SF: J. Green (30) / M. Thybulle (25) / A. Lawson
PF: D. Finney-Smith (35) / M. Kleber (25)
C: J. Allen (30) / D. Powell / D. Sharpe

[Maverick41]

Agreed. If the lottery gods are favorable and we move up to 4, the best, most realistic transaction among those two teams for us:

DAL ===> T. Hardaway Jr. / J. McGee / 4th Overall Pick / 6MM Cash
CLE ===> J. Allen / '24 2nd via GSW / '26 2nd via LAL

I like Jafro but I don't think he's worth the #4 pick. For reference, let's compare the guy everyone is down on (Ayton) vs Jafro for this playoffs:

J. Allen - 9 pts, 7 rebs, 1 block, 38 mpg
Ayton - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 1 block, 32 mpg

I think if we get a pick that high and want to speed up the win-now process, we got to find a way to turn it into 2 starting level players rather then 1.

[SOUNDCHASER]

Not a big fan of Allen he is another undersized center and that is a proven recipe for failure unless you can field a team with 4 2 way all stars at the other positions. Then you can win with a PF at center maybe. Rather we draft our centers so we can create a dynasty for 10 plus years with Doncic remaining a maverick forever. Hardy and Green are going to play here for a long time and so we need to think about how to build a team that will exist after Irvings retirement

[SOUNDCHASER]

Allen only gets 7.4 rebounds per game in the playoffs and he may be responsible more than most for why the team got stopped by the lowly knicks.

[Mr B]

Agreed. If the lottery gods are favorable and we move up to 4, the best, most realistic transaction among those two teams for us:

DAL ===> T. Hardaway Jr. / J. McGee / 4th Overall Pick / 6MM Cash
CLE ===> J. Allen / '24 2nd via GSW / '26 2nd via LAL

I like Jafro but I don't think he's worth the #4 pick. For reference, let's compare the guy everyone is down on (Ayton) vs Jafro for this playoffs:

J. Allen - 9 pts, 7 rebs, 1 block, 38 mpg
Ayton - 13 pts, 10 rebs, 1 block, 32 mpg

I think if we get a pick that high and want to speed up the win-now process, we got to find a way to turn it into 2 starting level players rather then 1.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I don’t think Ayton sucks. He’s clearly a very physically gifted center. Also he would without a doubt improve the rebounding. I’m just not convinced he’s smart enough. I’ve seen him make some really bad decisions on defense. And when it boils down to it, the points are nice, and the rebounding is nice, but it’s going to all come down to his defense. His defense is questionable. Turner, Poeltl, or one of the Knicks centers would be better fits for what the Mavs need (if they resign Kyrie). If they don’t resign Kyrie I think Ayton becomes a better option. Personally I’d prefer to see if the Pacers are more interested in acquiring Ayton. Send the Mavs Turner and Kyrie and rejoin KD in the desert.