No Cheesesteaks For Us! Game 4 Loss vs PHI 5/7 (Series tied 2-2)

[Celticsfan100]

Well like many people said on this board. Take the time out, go to half court, and go 2 for 1 to extend the game. Instead of playing for the last shot like it’s a tie game. No reason not to get a shot attempt off

[shackles10]

Lost in all of the sorrows of last nights loss is that fact that everyone in the office is getting cheesesteaks for lunch and I just don't feel right doing it. Thanks Joe!

[Stan34]

Jaylen disappearing in the 4th and OT didn't help.

You always say that first quarter is the most important quarter of the game. i don't have anything to say.
Stooooooooppppp

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[keevsnick1]

Celtics crunch time usage.

Smart: 31.4%
Tatum: 20%
Brogdon: 19.4%
Jaylen: 8.6%
White: 4.8%

Tatum and especially Jaylen do not have the ball enough in crunch time. Tatum is one of the best advantage creators in basketball, and Jaylen is a really good tough shot guy. The coaches need to get Jaylen more involved, but he’s also being passive and struggling to get open.

Celtics crunch time scoring numbers.

Smart: 21 points, 7-11 (2-6) and 5-5 from the line, 4 turnovers.
Tatum: 17 points, 5-9 (2-5) and 5-7 from the line, 0 turnovers.
Al: 10 points, 4-8 (2-6).
Rob: 8 points, 4-5.
Jaylen: 3 points, 1-4 (1-3), 1 turnover.
Brogdon: 3 points 1-5 (1-3), 1 turnover.

Celtics always have Tatum/Smart doing a two man game with Jaylen Brown standing in the corner in the last few minutes of the game. It should be the other way around. Tatum/Brown two man game and have Smart standing in the corner. Makes no sense to me. I mean Brown is a better shot maker and Smart is a better off the ball hustler.

You think the Suns would do a Durant/Payne and stick Booker in the corner?

This has very little to do with Brown being passive and struggling to get open. It has to do with Smart taking over and freezing out Brown and you know I'm a huge Smart fan.

That's my opinion.

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Give me more Tatum/Brown two man game!

This 1000x. The reason Jaylen's shot attempts plummet in the 4th quarter is the Celtics become strangely obsesses with running PnR between Tatum and Smart, often to get Tatum onto a small guy like Maxey. The problem with this is a) It takes forever to develop a lot of the time and B) The other team will often double Tatum off from Smart. That means Smart will get a ton of shots, and Tatum will often get doubled. And to his credit he's hit those shots more than expected, but the obsession with the action stagnates the offense and doesn't really do Tatum any favors either.

Its not even "Smart freezing Brown out." Not intentionally anyway. Its just when they run that action the geometry of the court often means Brown just isn't going to see the ball because he's spacing opposite side corner to make the action work. He's the guy the other team is least likely to help off in that action, hence why he has 4 crunch time shots.

[Feed Your Head]

I know it's easy to think just about the Celtics, but no doubt the other team wants Marcus to shoot and is very happy to funnel the ball towards him in these situations. It's pretty easy when Tatum just dribbles until the double comes almost every single time -- and I think even 'bad' defenses are good enough to know who to leave open as they scramble to recover from the double.

1

While I don’t buy that Smart freezing Jaylen out is a realistic thing, I do think Smart (and Brogdon) are the two biggest culprits of how much the ball slows down late in these playoff games.

Tatum’s job is to draw the double, the rest of the team is supposed to be ready to make a quick play off of that, against a disadvantaged defense. That does reflect coaching, because the players are just standing still.

Don't leave JT off of the list of 'ball slowers'. If anything I hope yesterday's loss can prompt some reflection on behalf of Jayson, Marcus, and whomever else that YOU CAN GET GOING BEFORE 3 SECONDS REMAIN

I 100% agree about the strategy and the role of coaching. But Joe is saying those are the shots he wants -- just missed one, and got the other off too late. For a 34-year-old in his first rodeo, I'm fine with that. If they players get it into their head now that going before 3 seconds remain is helpful, then we might not be having this same convo like midway through the NBA Finals.

Tatum is fifth on the team in seconds per touch, behind Smart, Jaylen, Brogdon, and White.

It can’t be up THAT much in the 4th quarter for his numbers to be that low. He made too late a decision in OT, but has been extremely quick with the ball all playoffs.

[Celts17Pride]

What I am going to say has nothing to do with Tatum & Smart and all to do with coaching.

Celtics struggle late in games because they are predictable.

Dribble the ball until late in the shot clock, Tatum/Smart two man game, Jaylen Brown in the corner. Repeat.

Repeat 100 times if necessary.

Have to be more creative than that.

[Red2]

In terms of blame for this loss, Brown is at the top of the heap. If he doesnt leave Hardin to double team embiid we force a much tougher shot

[watsonthedragon]

I'm curious, had the shot been half a second earlier, if I'd be reading the same posts about Joe's incompetence or if it would have been "a great move to not let Philly set their defense and leaving them no time to get a shot".

[Bar Fight]

Team is in coin-flip three game series now. All because they **** suck down the stretch of close Playoff games. All these years of Playoff experience just to be the same damn choke artists they were in 2018, 2020, etc. Sickening

[Bar Fight]

I'm curious, had the shot been half a second earlier, if I'd be reading the same posts about Joe's incompetence or if it would have been "a great move to not let Philly set their defense and leaving them no time to get a shot".

Philly did set their defense though lol. It was off a made bucket and Smart walked the ball up the floor.

[playa-hater]

Btw Rob was great and Joe Hoe buried him on the bench.

I hate this **** coach.

32 minutes for Al horford and I believe only 12 for rob Williams.. Of course somebody's going to say rob is probably hurt which is not the case..

There is no excuse for rob to be playing as few minutes as he has..

How can you say Rob isn't hurt though? Dude's head used to be near rim level when he was dunking. Now he is all layups. The explosiveness is gone. Some games you can see glimpses of it, then others he looks like Blake going to the rim, just with longer arms.
Maybe he isn't hurt but he isn't the same player anymore, very little lift for one of the most explosiveness players in the league prior to these last few months.

Probably "not the same player" is right, but even at his current abilities he is still able to provide good defense/shot blocking. That and Al playing near 40 minutes is not optimal. Though Al did come up Big on defense late.

[Tyakack]

Team is in coin-flip three game series now. All because they **** suck down the stretch of close Playoff games. All these years of Playoff experience just to be the same damn choke artists they were in 2018, 2020, etc. Sickening

I wouldn't call it a coin flip but yeah.. They have one more time to f*** up before it is a coin flip though. Anything can happen in 1 game. The celtics are playing with fire. I predict they get away with it until the finals. Once the talent gap closes all these late game mental errors and rookie coach mistakes ain't gonna cut it. I keep waiting for them to show me they've learned.. All they've been showing me is they haven't.

[BK_2020]

Jaylen disappearing in the 4th and OT didn't help.

You always say that first quarter is the most important quarter of the game. i don't have anything to say.
Stooooooooppppp

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I did say Jaylen's scoring early is valuable, though.
I don't think we lost because of scoring in any case. We needed more defense and rebounding.

[Celts17Pride]

Everyone makes fun of Doc Rivers and he gets in my opinion unjust heat. Doc River's masterful game plan of getting Jaylen Brown off of James Harden was the key to Game 4 in my opinion. Philly had Harden bring the ball up less and continued to screen until Brown was off of Harden and then Harden went to work. Rewatch the game or provide the stats but I'm willing to bet Harden scored probably about 7 of his 42 points against Brown. The other points came when someone else was guarding him. Mazzulla needs to adjust.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Team is in coin-flip three game series now. All because they **** suck down the stretch of close Playoff games. All these years of Playoff experience just to be the same damn choke artists they were in 2018, 2020, etc. Sickening

I wouldn't call it a coin flip but yeah.. They have one more time to f*** up before it is a coin flip though. Anything can happen in 1 game. The celtics are playing with fire. I predict they get away with it until the finals. Once the talent gap closes all these late game mental errors and rookie coach mistakes ain't gonna cut it. I keep waiting for them to show me they've learned.. All they've been showing me is they haven't.

I think at this point it's a coin flip considering how poorly Boston has played at home over the last several years and quite honestly it's an inexcusable.

Unfortunately not a whole lot's changed since the regular season and like you said these errors aren't going to cut it at some point it'll catch up to them.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Everyone makes fun of Doc Rivers and he gets in my opinion unjust heat. Doc River's masterful game plan of getting Jaylen Brown off of James Harden was the key to Game 4 in my opinion. Philly had Harden bring the ball up less and continued to screen until Brown was off of Harden and then Harden went to work. Rewatch the game or provide the stats but I'm willing to bet Harden scored probably about 7 of his 42 points against Brown. The other points came when someone else was guarding him. Mazzulla needs to adjust.

I always like Doc and while I don't think he is the best coach ever but he's been doing this a long time. The reality of the situation is that Joe is going to be badly out coached by any team they face from here on out Doc included

[MagicBagley18]

Celtics in 6

[lon3lytoaster]

I'm curious, had the shot been half a second earlier, if I'd be reading the same posts about Joe's incompetence or if it would have been "a great move to not let Philly set their defense and leaving them no time to get a shot".

Philly did set their defense though lol. It was off a made bucket and Smart walked the ball up the floor.

Both times it was set. I can’t remember which game it was, but there was one in the Atlanta series where Joe actually did call a time out but he was clearly conflicted about it. That was kind of comical.

I’m kind of over the not calling timeouts during runs. I don’t care about that anymore. No one having any idea what to do at end of game situation is extremely concerning though. I guess that includes Joe because his only set plays are from his time under Brad.

[Hal14]

Before Embiid kicked it out to Harden, he clearly traveled and got away with it.

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[Celticsfan100]

I'm curious, had the shot been half a second earlier, if I'd be reading the same posts about Joe's incompetence or if it would have been "a great move to not let Philly set their defense and leaving them no time to get a shot".

Regardless you are getting the shot off way too late for comfort even if it counted. Anyway no one goes for the last shot with 18 seconds left down 1. That was stupid