(Lock Please) The LeBron James - 22-23 NBA Playoff Thread - (Part 3)

[RRR3]

Btw looking at on/off data, Lakers ORTG when LeBron was on the court in the regular season was so good it would have been 2nd in the NBA behind only the Kings. Kinda crazy given how ugly their offense looks. I was very surprised as I don't think I've liked the looks of a LeBron offense since he left Cleveland in 2018. Maybe I was ok with Walton's offense I can't really remember.

Our offense looks ugly at times because brons not been the best halfcourt but from a system perspective the Lakers offense is the best it’s been by far

Comparing the luke Walton offense is CRIMINAL.

Hams a good offensive coach for the most part, that’s why AD is having the best offensive season despite clearly being like 70-80% of his early season self, and he’s done a good job getting bron in the move or us running things to beat help

I didn't say anything about the Luke Walton offense with LeBron other than that I don't remember it (I have a lot of mental health issues that affect memory), calm down.

[Heej]

Some extreme meltdowns going on right now

It's amazing. The fact that Steph fans are acting like this for the first time that he ever had to be in LeBron's position in their matchups shows he's not the top 5 guy his fans think he is. He's more like a top 15 guy whose career turned out so well he has an argument for top 10.

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

There are absolutely 10 players that have arguments for being better than him. People still don't realize what an outlier his career is relative to his contemporaries as far as teammate luck goes.

Wiggins is on this team because of KD lmao. His career would've ended up top 15 at best without him. Draymond Green is a top 3 defensive player of his generation and Klay is arguably a top 5 shooter of all time. There's easily 10 guys that would've had better careers with that kind of Fortune.

[RRR3]

It's amazing. The fact that Steph fans are acting like this for the first time that he ever had to be in LeBron's position in their matchups shows he's not the top 5 guy his fans think he is. He's more like a top 15 guy whose career turned out so well he has an argument for top 10.

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

There are absolutely 10 players that have arguments for being better than him. People still don't realize what an outlier his career is relative to his contemporaries as far as teammate luck goes.

Wiggins is on this team because of KD lmao. His career would've ended up top 15 at best without him. Draymond Green is a top 3 defensive player of his generation and Klay is arguably a top 5 shooter of all time. There's easily 10 guys that would've had better careers with that kind of Fortune.

Which 10 guys?

I don’t base where I rank Curry off his rings btw

[MyUniBroDavis]

Btw looking at on/off data, Lakers ORTG when LeBron was on the court in the regular season was so good it would have been 2nd in the NBA behind only the Kings. Kinda crazy given how ugly their offense looks. I was very surprised as I don't think I've liked the looks of a LeBron offense since he left Cleveland in 2018. Maybe I was ok with Walton's offense I can't really remember.

Our offense looks ugly at times because brons not been the best halfcourt but from a system perspective the Lakers offense is the best it’s been by far

Comparing the luke Walton offense is CRIMINAL.

Hams a good offensive coach for the most part, that’s why AD is having the best offensive season despite clearly being like 70-80% of his early season self, and he’s done a good job getting bron in the move or us running things to beat help

I didn't say anything about the Luke Walton offense with LeBron other than that I don't remember it (I have a lot of mental health issues that affect memory), calm down.

Fair, I just thought you were hating on ham again lol

[Heej]

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

There are absolutely 10 players that have arguments for being better than him. People still don't realize what an outlier his career is relative to his contemporaries as far as teammate luck goes.

Wiggins is on this team because of KD lmao. His career would've ended up top 15 at best without him. Draymond Green is a top 3 defensive player of his generation and Klay is arguably a top 5 shooter of all time. There's easily 10 guys that would've had better careers with that kind of Fortune.

Which 10 guys?

I don’t base where I rank Curry off his rings btw

Bron
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Timmy
Magic
Hakeem
Shaq

All of those are locks imo.

Bird
Wilt
Kobe
West
Baylor
Walton (career likely ends up way different with 2010s medical advancements)
Dr J

This tier either had guys who performed just as well as Steph with comparable teammate and opponent luck or overall got way worse than median outcomes for their careers as far as environment goes while matching Steph in impact.

I look at guys based on EV. Plain and simple. If you simulate someone's career 1000x, over 30 timespans on 30 teams whose career was blessed with above average teammate EV. Steph is one of those guys who (coincidentally like Jordan) has easily experienced a top 10 percentile outcome as far as environment goes (there's easily a Bill Walton-esque timeline out there where he blows his ankles out and never sniffs the top 40).

Honestly Steph might have had the luckiest situation out of anyone on that entire list because of KD (which was responsible for Wiggins). Not to mention his freakish outlier opponent injury luck.

When you're comparing him to all time greats you need to look at the offensive mastery while also understanding he is getting hunted on defense more than ANY of them and has among the worst crunch time decision-making out of all the primary ballhandlers on the list.

Just goes to show how good he is because top 15 is stacked and he's right up there. But people saying top 5 are smoking crack and people saying top 10 lock are getting sucked up in recency bias and doing a poor job contextualizing historical player environments and where their environment ranks relative to baseline environments for all time greats.

[Heej]

Can we invoke the "LeBron-ball" criticism card on Steph for spamming high pnrs and taking his teammates out of rhythm making Klay worse. It's only fair right.

[McBubbles]

Yaaaas, was extremely confident that Lakers would win an ultra close possession game, likely by 1. Just woke up to see they won by 3, wish I could have placed a bet.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yaaaas, was extremely confident that Lakers would an ultra close possession game, likely by 1. Just woke up to see they won by 3, wish I could have placed a bet.

They cleared the spread actually lol, it was -2.5

[RRR3]

There are absolutely 10 players that have arguments for being better than him. People still don't realize what an outlier his career is relative to his contemporaries as far as teammate luck goes.

Wiggins is on this team because of KD lmao. His career would've ended up top 15 at best without him. Draymond Green is a top 3 defensive player of his generation and Klay is arguably a top 5 shooter of all time. There's easily 10 guys that would've had better careers with that kind of Fortune.

Which 10 guys?

I don’t base where I rank Curry off his rings btw

Bron
Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Timmy
Magic
Hakeem
Shaq

All of those are locks imo.

Bird
Wilt
Kobe
West
Baylor
Walton (career likely ends up way different with 2010s medical advancements)
Dr J

This tier either had guys who performed just as well as Steph with comparable teammate and opponent luck or overall got way worse than median outcomes for their careers as far as environment goes while matching Steph in impact.

I look at guys based on EV. Plain and simple. If you simulate someone's career 1000x, over 30 timespans on 30 teams whose career was blessed with above average teammate EV. Steph is one of those guys who (coincidentally like Jordan) has easily experienced a top 10 percentile outcome as far as environment goes (there's easily a Bill Walton-esque timeline out there where he blows his ankles out and never sniffs the top 40).

Honestly Steph might have had the luckiest situation out of anyone on that entire list because of KD (which was responsible for Wiggins). Not to mention his freakish outlier opponent injury luck.

When you're comparing him to all time greats you need to look at the offensive mastery while also understanding he is getting hunted on defense more than ANY of them and has among the worst crunch time decision-making out of all the primary ballhandlers on the list.

Just goes to show how good he is because top 15 is stacked and he's right up there. But people saying top 5 are smoking crack and people saying top 10 lock are getting sucked up in recency bias and doing a poor job contextualizing historical player environments and where their environment ranks relative to baseline environments for all time greats.

Baylor? Seriously? He wasn't a good team player at all. And Walton's peak was amazing but he had 2 elite years, he's not even top 100 in total career value. Don't see how Kobe was better than Curry at all personally. Kobe isn't winning with the 2022 Warriors. Don't think Dr. J or West are either. I can't say Russell was better than Curry due to his offensive issues. I know Curry isn't a great defender but he's also a point guard and not a center. And he is the best offensive player of all time IMO.

[ardee]

Some extreme meltdowns going on right now

It's amazing. The fact that Steph fans are acting like this for the first time that he ever had to be in LeBron's position in their matchups shows he's not the top 5 guy his fans think he is. He's more like a top 15 guy whose career turned out so well he has an argument for top 10.

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

I REALLY like Steph but that statement is just too strong and very easy to argue against. LeBron, Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Wilt, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Hakeem, Bird, that's 11...

You can maybe argue Steph over 4-5 of those BUT you can conversely easily argue all of them over Steph plus a few more guys on top.

[GSP]

Some extreme meltdowns going on right now

It's amazing. The fact that Steph fans are acting like this for the first time that he ever had to be in LeBron's position in their matchups shows he's not the top 5 guy his fans think he is. He's more like a top 15 guy whose career turned out so well he has an argument for top 10.

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

Bron, Mj, Kaj, Russell, Wilt, Timmy, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe........thats already more than 1 and hes by no means separated himself from Kg, Oscar, Jerry and a few others

[ardee]

This Lakers unit feels like a team of destiny.

Things like this Lonnie Walker performance... They don't happen for teams that aren't on the pathway to something historic.

They will win this series, whether it's in 5 or 6, the Warriors don't look like they have any aces left to pull.

Both the Suns and Nuggets in the WCF would be beatable, though I'm not sure who the preferred opponent is.

[Mos_Heat]

Like in Memphis series it's clear that LA is a better team when they focused and feeling well physically. It's just hard to predict how much Lebron and especially AD has in the tank. They found energy for the last 18 minutes of the game, but I expect them to be dead in Chase

[McBubbles]

It's amazing. The fact that Steph fans are acting like this for the first time that he ever had to be in LeBron's position in their matchups shows he's not the top 5 guy his fans think he is. He's more like a top 15 guy whose career turned out so well he has an argument for top 10.

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

Bron, Mj, Kaj, Russell, Wilt, Timmy, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe........thats already more than 1 and hes by no means separated himself from Kg, Oscar, Jerry and a few others

What are Shaq and Kobe's arguments over Curry?

I really like Steph. I **** despised his stans but then realized that I was letting my annoyance with his fans affect my perception of Steph himself. It's funny how TOO much positive praise can negatively influence a perception of someone you already like it.

That being said, he's arguably the luckiest superstar in NBA history and the fact that his stans completely overlook this infuriates me. As such I hope he wins precisely 0 more championships lol.

[xb3at band1tx]

why does chuck keep calling the lakers old lol

LeBron is 38, sure but davis just turned 30, dennis is 29, and everyone else is in their early-mid-twenties lmao

[TheGOATRises007]

I don't agree with that. Steph is phenomenal and there haven't been 10 better players by any means.

Bron, Mj, Kaj, Russell, Wilt, Timmy, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe........thats already more than 1 and hes by no means separated himself from Kg, Oscar, Jerry and a few others

What are Shaq and Kobe's arguments over Curry?

I really like Steph. I **** despised his stans but then realized that I was letting my annoyance with his fans affect my perception of Steph himself. It's funny how TOO much positive praise can negatively influence a perception of someone you already like it.

That being said, he's arguably the luckiest superstar in NBA history and the fact that his stans completely overlook this infuriates me. As such I hope he wins precisely 0 more championships lol.

Shaq has a pretty good argument.

More resilient scorer in playoff situations. More durability in his prime. His FTs are a problem though. If you rate Shaq's defense as neutral relative to other centers, his argument weakens a bit.

Personally rank Curry over Kobe, but you can make an argument for Kobe. Again, better durability in his prime and arguably more resilient playoff scorer. Much better defensively at their peak.

[TheGOATRises007]

why does chuck keep calling the lakers old lol

LeBron is 38, sure but davis just turned 30, dennis is 29, and everyone else is in their early-mid-twenties lmao

Inside the NBA doesn't really provide insightful analysis.

[xb3at band1tx]

It's insane how much AD's gravity has forced Kerr to throw 3 different lineups at him in the series lol

Nothing has stick and defensively he's denied them everything and they're now down 3 - 1.

[Homer38]

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[Greatness]

Read on Twitter

Took the haymakers and still standing. Tough ass team. The Celtics folded against Steph playing like this last year

He couldn't make a shot and is a shell in general but I thought LeBron's determination was huge in LA's multiple comebacks in this game. He poured his heart out on the floor today. Probably the most determined I've ever seen him, honestly.

Game 6 Boston and game 1 2018 finals for me

4th quarter of game 6 in the 2013 finals for me. People forget because of the two turnovers in the final minute and the Allen 3, but the entire quarter prior to that was a man playing the hardest, most determined basketball on both ends I've ever seen.