2023 Heat Season Thread - Let me dream edition

[AirP.]

Here's the big question moving forward, do you pay Strus and/or Vincent? Strus was ok but Vincent wasn't all that good all season long, and neither have a sizable history of being good, they absolutely could be the next bad contracts for Miami. If they get something around Martin's contract sure, I get it, but more than that might be a bad idea.

[Beenie]

Nuggets would be a terrible matchup.

Anyone else, Mia can compete against and potentially win.

Nuggets or LA both would be tough, AD is a nightmare matchup for Bam. Even in the East I think Boston might be too tough but we'll see what happens if we can pack up NY.

Fronting AD worked really well in the finals 3 years ago

I also think the zone would be more effective this year than it was back then considering their current array of unimpressive shooters.

[Beenie]

Here's the big question moving forward, do you pay Strus and/or Vincent? Strus was ok but Vincent wasn't all that good all season long, and neither have a sizable history of being good, they absolutely could be the next bad contracts for Miami. If they get something around Martin's contract sure, I get it, but more than that might be a bad idea.

Sign n trade both if there’s value to be gotten

[Beenie]

We played the nuggets well in Denver but let it slip away in the last minute or 2. That was a game Jimmy didn’t try too.

Lost by 4 in Miami.

Murray lit Mia up down the stretch of one of those games and he’s playing at another level during the playoffs

[greg4012]

I get supporting this FO up till 2015, they did an incredible job but since then it's been middle of the road for this team except for not paying Wade where he went to Miami and sold Butler on Miami's no tank environment. Butler was a gift to a franchise that he committed in his first 5 minutes of the meeting, he was sold by Wade before the meeting. You can try to lie to yourself that the FO has really tried to build around Butler, but they haven't and probably threw away 1-2 championships (after these playoffs) because of it.

Completely ignoring the carefully crafted, managed, and fostered environment that the front office and franchise has created which allows Butler to thrive is disingenuous at best (malicious at worst).

Carefully crafted? Really? They carefully crafted in multiple years of going into the season and playoffs without legit starting PFs, the let Crowder go and didn't replace him (they did get over the hill Ariza) and Miami got swept in the playoffs. This year they let their starting PF once again walk without replacing him and they came in 7th in the East, only having a prayer answered in K.Love not only ask to be bought out and then sign with Miami has this worked. THEY LET STARTERS WALK WITHOUT REPLACING THEM. Nearly every other FO would have gotten someone. Not only did this FO have a good idea that Tucker would walk( or they should have known) they drafted a project PF with their 1st round pick. How is any of that helping Butler?

THEY WENT 7 GAMES IN THE ECF last year, watched their starting PF walk, their best player is 33 years old and said, no, we're good without a PF on the roster, luckily K.Love asked for a buyout to plug the huge hole in the Miami rotation at PF. Without that unexpected buyout, Miami wouldn't be playing now.

Could they have done more and did they make mistakes? Absolutely. What org hasn't?

Nearly every other franchise would have replaced their starting PF, not Miami, they're hoarding assets for that next big trade, they went to the finals and the ECF and was 100% fine letting their starting PF walk and not replace him.

Are they one of the 3 best run front offices of the 21st century? Without question.

Up till LeBron left maybe, since then Miami's only had real success because the FO refused to pay their franchise player D.Wade who went elsewhere and talked Butler into wanting to play in Miami and their environment, it had little to do with the FO other than not paying Wade to make him leave Miami.

They maxed Whiteside, gave sizable contracts to Waiters, J.Johnson, Robinson, Herro and soon to be Vincent, they matched T.Johnson and yet you think this has been a top organization since 2015... no sir, it's why you included the years before LeBron left to try to justify yourself.

A lot of what Miami FO is dealing with is literally still hedging from never tanking after mortgaging the future to get the big 3, LeBron trying to burn the village on his way out, and prematurely losing Bosh.

Noted but handing out horrible contracts isn't the way to fix the situation, nor is trying to undercut your franchise player and forcing him to sign elsewhere. How about quit sending out assets to fix bad contracts you handed out?

Has the FO been too steadfast in holding out for the biggest possible fish? I think so. But, to act like it's a total failure when this franchise is literally one game away from being back in the conference finals for 3 of the past 4 years is naive. To act like the FO has tried to do nothing when they've been engaged on trying to net every possible big fish and falling short on assets in the inflated market is to actively want to take an antagonistic perspective IMO.

The franchise is having success because of the player D.Wade sold on how Spoelstra runs the team, nothing more than that. Had Thibodeau been able to make the moves he wanted AND max out Butler he would have stayed in Minnesota with Thibs. Butler wanted a strucutred and tough team and Miami was one of the few ones left.


I am good with saying this FO may have done the best job in basketball for a 15 to 20 year stretch that ended around 2015, but since then it's not been good and have been lucky to have gifts drop into their lap. Just living in Miami is a huge bonus that a lot of team's can't offer and that has nothing to do with the FO.

I was lifelong Bulls fan, but finally recognized that wow, only because MJ dropped to Chicago in the draft and even going from #9 pick to #1 to get Rose was the only reason they could put together a good team. It's why I'm so critical of front offices now which is just an extension of the owner and what they want. Chicago fans actually paid money to put up advertisements to get rid of GarPax. Gar Foreman was just a bad person... someone should ask Butler about him and find out why betting on himself was so important to him.

So everything that Miami has created and run as an organization comes down to if they succeeded on making a handful of small roster moves this past offseason. Yikes city.

I think expanding the perspective of the assessment can be beneficial. I'd bet Jimmy himself sees things differently than you. But, it's all good. Everyone can have their opinions and perspectives.

I'm enjoying the product that this organization has put forth. I hope for continued improvements this offseason. I don't want to dedicate my time to crying over things that maybe should have been done (maybe not) while my team is beating organizations that did those things. Time and place, my man. Time and place. I'm pumped as to what is currently happening with this team. The fans of 22 franchises and counting are fully focused on what offseason moves need to be made rn. It's looking like my Miami Heat will be one of the 4 teams that will be able to continue worrying about how to win the next game for the next few weeks. I'll worry about this offseason when it is the offseason.

Warning: this next question may trigger you. Where has Jimmy found more success over his 12 year career?

[Kobewade11]

I would have inquired about Hield at a much smaller price than go after someone like Beal (although Beal is better), I'd possibly inquire on Turner also depending on if I could get both of them at somewhat of a discount. Hield is type of 3pt shooter you invest Robinson money since he has a better overall game and isn't as terrible on the defensive end (I'm not sure if there's anyone worse than Robinson at his size on defense).

Jump into the trade to get S.Bey.

Find out what it takes to get C.Woods since Dallas isn't really using him.

How many assets would it take get Houston to do a D.Robinson for E.Grodon?

The big all in move? I would have considered DeRozan. It would be very interesting to see Butler and DeRozan both hunting matchups and if not getting the right matchup swinging the ball to the other side to let the other one hunt for it. That's a nice what if... had Miami went all in and did 2 sign and trades to get Lowry from Toronto and DeRozan from San Antonio while letting Robinson walk.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'd agree this group doesn't necessarily need a star, but I don't think any of the names mentioned above drastically improve this team for this year. Hield, Wood, Gordon, especially is just shuffling chairs relative to what we would have given up. Bey is the most intriguing name and even he does not drastically alter the ceiling of this group.

[AirP.]

So everything that Miami has created and run as an organization comes down to if they succeeded on making a handful of small roster moves this past offseason. Yikes city.

You keep changing the talk, I've said over and over it's been since LeBron left yet you keep moving the goal posts to try to make yourself sound right so your FO has some type of defense.

I think expanding the perspective of the assessment can be beneficial. I'd bet Jimmy himself sees things differently than you. But, it's all good. Everyone can have their opinions and perspectives.

Butler was good with the 3rd team in Minnesota, he thinks he can win no matter what, so what? He grew up in the NBA with Thibodeau who he loves (he had him as a guest at a Miami game), they always think they have enough even if they don't.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I'm enjoying the product that this organization has put forth. I hope for continued improvements this offseason. I don't want to dedicate my time to crying over things that maybe should have been done (maybe not) while my team is beating organizations that did those things. Time and place, my man. Time and place. I'm pumped as to what is currently happening with this team. The fans of 22 franchises and counting are fully focused on what offseason moves need to be made rn. It's looking like my Miami Heat will be one of the 4 teams that will be able to continue worrying about how to win the next game for the next few weeks. I'll worry about this offseason when it is the offseason.

Not crying but maybe you're projecting, just talking about how stunted this roster has been. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, I've been saying this for now nearly 4 years since Butler was acquired, you know, the chance to add C.Paul for very little assets a month after getting Butler but that wonderful 2021 plan was in place, also not bringing back the finals team for that same 2021 plan that blew up later that offseason. You act like this is a just this season thing, it hasn't been, it's been nearly half a decade now.

Warning: this next question may trigger you. Where has Jimmy found more success over his 12 year career?

Trigger me, I've been following Butler in hopes he found a team that didn't invest in potential talent(young players) over Butler which is happening a little in Miami with Herro. It's what I expected once he got his own team, it could be happening in Minnesota had their owner just stayed out of the way. Butler isn't your regular dominate player which is why I'm following him before I try to become a full time Thunder fan (local team).

[AirP.]

I would have inquired about Hield at a much smaller price than go after someone like Beal (although Beal is better), I'd possibly inquire on Turner also depending on if I could get both of them at somewhat of a discount. Hield is type of 3pt shooter you invest Robinson money since he has a better overall game and isn't as terrible on the defensive end (I'm not sure if there's anyone worse than Robinson at his size on defense).

Jump into the trade to get S.Bey.

Find out what it takes to get C.Woods since Dallas isn't really using him.

How many assets would it take get Houston to do a D.Robinson for E.Grodon?

The big all in move? I would have considered DeRozan. It would be very interesting to see Butler and DeRozan both hunting matchups and if not getting the right matchup swinging the ball to the other side to let the other one hunt for it. That's a nice what if... had Miami went all in and did 2 sign and trades to get Lowry from Toronto and DeRozan from San Antonio while letting Robinson walk.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'd agree this group doesn't necessarily need a star, but I don't think any of the names mentioned above drastically improve this team for this year. Hield, Wood, Gordon, especially is just shuffling chairs relative to what we would have given up. Bey is the most intriguing name and even he does not drastically alter the ceiling of this group.

I think many thought Love wouldn't make a big difference, he just made enough of a difference which I think having a guy like Bey who can also defend would do. You just have to remove your negatives in the post-season to have a chance.

This team is close (which makes it so frustrating to see them do so little to upgrade the roster)... they just need to remove all the bad defenders from the rotation and possibly add 1 maybe 2 proven vet 3pt shooters who can give good effort on the defensive end.

This current Miami roster is a great roster to root for. It's a great time to be a Heat fan, I just think it could be better, it would be nice to see a player like Butler get a ring.

Also, it's not like I'm the only one noticing the misses, from time to time these misses are talked about on national NBA podcasts.

[heatlejuice]

They tried to make other moves and didnt have the assets for their targets. So they held serve and picked up a couple of guys on the buyout market, who btw have helped the team. They had a greater belief in their guys than most of you and so far they look to be right.

I get supporting this FO up till 2015, they did an incredible job but since then it's been middle of the road for this team except for not paying Wade where he went to Miami and sold Butler on Miami's no tank environment. Butler was a gift to a franchise that he committed in his first 5 minutes of the meeting, he was sold by Wade before the meeting. You can try to lie to yourself that the FO has really tried to build around Butler, but they haven't and probably threw away 1-2 championships (after these playoffs) because of it.

Completely ignoring the carefully crafted, managed, and fostered environment that the front office and franchise has created which allows Butler to thrive is disingenuous at best (malicious at worst). Could they have done more and did they make mistakes? Absolutely. What org hasn't?

Are they one of the 3 best run front offices of the 21st century? Without question.

A lot of what Miami FO is dealing with is literally still hedging from never tanking after mortgaging the future to get the big 3, LeBron trying to burn the village on his way out, and prematurely losing Bosh.

Has the FO been too steadfast in holding out for the biggest possible fish? I think so. But, to act like it's a total failure when this franchise is literally one game away from being back in the conference finals for 3 of the past 4 years is naive. To act like the FO has tried to do nothing when they've been engaged on trying to net every possible big fish and falling short on assets in the inflated market is to actively want to take an antagonistic perspective IMO.

Couldn’t have said this better!!

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Wow I’m actually shocked Bam got an end of the season award considering we didn’t prioritize regular season success this year, figured Jimmy would be all nba and that’s it.

So now Bam is the only player in the league to be top 5 for DPOY and make an all defense team 4 years in a row while also averaging 20-10-3 and only getting better. I’ll take it.

2 more quick notes:

1. Jimmy not making it over brooks is a joke.

2. As I’ve been saying since last season when he won DPOY, these now media narrative driven awards are a complete joke and have gotten out of hand. This dude Smart won DPOY last season and turned around this year and didn’t get a single vote for DPOY and didn’t even make an all defensive team despite the Celtics overall being better this year.

The media loved that “first guard to win since GP” narrative

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[greg4012]

So everything that Miami has created and run as an organization comes down to if they succeeded on making a handful of small roster moves this past offseason. Yikes city.

You keep changing the talk, I've said over and over it's been since LeBron left yet you keep moving the goal posts to try to make yourself sound right so your FO has some type of defense.

I think expanding the perspective of the assessment can be beneficial. I'd bet Jimmy himself sees things differently than you. But, it's all good. Everyone can have their opinions and perspectives.

Butler was good with the 3rd team in Minnesota, he thinks he can win no matter what, so what? He grew up in the NBA with Thibodeau who he loves (he had him as a guest at a Miami game), they always think they have enough even if they don't.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

I'm enjoying the product that this organization has put forth. I hope for continued improvements this offseason. I don't want to dedicate my time to crying over things that maybe should have been done (maybe not) while my team is beating organizations that did those things. Time and place, my man. Time and place. I'm pumped as to what is currently happening with this team. The fans of 22 franchises and counting are fully focused on what offseason moves need to be made rn. It's looking like my Miami Heat will be one of the 4 teams that will be able to continue worrying about how to win the next game for the next few weeks. I'll worry about this offseason when it is the offseason.

Not crying but maybe you're projecting, just talking about how stunted this roster has been. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, I've been saying this for now nearly 4 years since Butler was acquired, you know, the chance to add C.Paul for very little assets a month after getting Butler but that wonderful 2021 plan was in place, also not bringing back the finals team for that same 2021 plan that blew up later that offseason. You act like this is a just this season thing, it hasn't been, it's been nearly half a decade now.

Warning: this next question may trigger you. Where has Jimmy found more success over his 12 year career?

Trigger me, I've been following Butler in hopes he found a team that didn't invest in potential talent(young players) over Butler which is happening a little in Miami with Herro. It's what I expected once he got his own team, it could be happening in Minnesota had their owner just stayed out of the way. Butler isn't your regular dominate player which is why I'm following him before I try to become a full time Thunder fan (local team).

Lol I’m not changing the talk. You’re just hyper zoomed in and unwilling to look at things thru lenses other than your own. You go extreme claiming it’s absolutely everything but the org that has lead to recent success (after 2015!).

It’s where player fans go haywire.

Do your thing. I know you will parrot these same grievances until the end of time. Meanwhile i’m cruisin and enjoying the fruits of a well run org (warts and all).

Edit: there’s a GREAT irony to the most steadfast player-fan on this board advocating solely for going all-in on investing all future assets into any present marginal gain possible to benefit the timeline of said player while also hedging your own fan experience by being a fan of another franchise (OKC) that has completely sacrificed present success to maximize collection of future assets. Like WOW

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

We need to end this in 5 and need the Sixers/Celtics to go 7. A week off would be HUGE

[MartyConlonJr]

With last night's win, Erik Spoelstra has a 60.6% playoff winning percentage. Same as Pat Riley.

Only notable guys with a higher percentage - Phil Jackson (68.8%), Steve Kerr (71.0%), Tyronn Lue (61.2%), John Kundla (63.2%), Billy Cunningham (62.9%). Last 2 guys were of different eras. Tyronn's body of work is small. Kerr and Jackson was handed All Time teams for pretty much their whole coaching career, so it is quite the accomplishment (and yes I know Spo had the big three so he is not without benefits).

If he wins out he will be 62.6%

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

So everything that Miami has created and run as an organization comes down to if they succeeded on making a handful of small roster moves this past offseason. Yikes city.

You keep changing the talk, I've said over and over it's been since LeBron left yet you keep moving the goal posts to try to make yourself sound right so your FO has some type of defense.

I think expanding the perspective of the assessment can be beneficial. I'd bet Jimmy himself sees things differently than you. But, it's all good. Everyone can have their opinions and perspectives.

Butler was good with the 3rd team in Minnesota, he thinks he can win no matter what, so what? He grew up in the NBA with Thibodeau who he loves (he had him as a guest at a Miami game), they always think they have enough even if they don't.
[spoiler]

Read on Twitter

I'm enjoying the product that this organization has put forth. I hope for continued improvements this offseason. I don't want to dedicate my time to crying over things that maybe should have been done (maybe not) while my team is beating organizations that did those things. Time and place, my man. Time and place. I'm pumped as to what is currently happening with this team. The fans of 22 franchises and counting are fully focused on what offseason moves need to be made rn. It's looking like my Miami Heat will be one of the 4 teams that will be able to continue worrying about how to win the next game for the next few weeks. I'll worry about this offseason when it is the offseason.

Not crying but maybe you're projecting, just talking about how stunted this roster has been. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, I've been saying this for now nearly 4 years since Butler was acquired, you know, the chance to add C.Paul for very little assets a month after getting Butler but that wonderful 2021 plan was in place, also not bringing back the finals team for that same 2021 plan that blew up later that offseason. You act like this is a just this season thing, it hasn't been, it's been nearly half a decade now.

Warning: this next question may trigger you. Where has Jimmy found more success over his 12 year career?

Trigger me, I've been following Butler in hopes he found a team that didn't invest in potential talent(young players) over Butler which is happening a little in Miami with Herro. It's what I expected once he got his own team, it could be happening in Minnesota had their owner just stayed out of the way. Butler isn't your regular dominate player which is why I'm following him before I try to become a full time Thunder fan (local team).

Lol I’m not changing the talk. You’re just hyper zoomed in and unwilling to look at things thru lenses other than your own. You go extreme claiming it’s absolutely everything but the org that has lead to recent success (after 2015!).

It’s where player fans go haywire.

Do your thing. I know you will parrot these same grievances until the end of time. Meanwhile i’m cruisin and enjoying the fruits of a well run org (warts and all).

Edit: there’s a GREAT irony to the most steadfast player-fan on this board advocating solely for going all-in on investing all future assets into any present marginal gain possible to benefit the timeline of said player while also hedging your own fan experience by being a fan of another franchise (OKC) that has completely sacrificed present success to maximize collection of future assets. Like WOW

So where have I said to go all-in on investing all assets? I have talked about replacing a starting PF to a roster that all they have in PFs is a project PF who's still not out of HS.

So, I think I figured this out, you either don't read my posts or you fantasize about what you think I'm actually saying and with that you get angry and counter with a lot of personal attacks.

Also, on the OKC fan thing, I said try because I don't really like their philosophy of tanking but of course you ignored me writing try, didn't think... why haven't this local OKC person become a Thunder fan yet, maybe he has an issue with them like their team building with tanking? You once again ignored what I said or made up in your head what I said to create a "gotcha" attack.

Congrats "cruisin and enjoying the fruits of a well run org (warts and all)", I'm glad you enjoy your team, I'm actually not here to piss anyone off, I'm here to talk about the team and listen to other opinions, especially with some substance to them. If you just want "we're number 1" posts, maybe you should put me as a foe, so you don't have to keep fantasizing what you think I wrote/mean.

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

You keep changing the talk, I've said over and over it's been since LeBron left yet you keep moving the goal posts to try to make yourself sound right so your FO has some type of defense.


Butler was good with the 3rd team in Minnesota, he thinks he can win no matter what, so what? He grew up in the NBA with Thibodeau who he loves (he had him as a guest at a Miami game), they always think they have enough even if they don't.
[spoiler]

Read on Twitter

Not crying but maybe you're projecting, just talking about how stunted this roster has been. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, I've been saying this for now nearly 4 years since Butler was acquired, you know, the chance to add C.Paul for very little assets a month after getting Butler but that wonderful 2021 plan was in place, also not bringing back the finals team for that same 2021 plan that blew up later that offseason. You act like this is a just this season thing, it hasn't been, it's been nearly half a decade now.

Trigger me, I've been following Butler in hopes he found a team that didn't invest in potential talent(young players) over Butler which is happening a little in Miami with Herro. It's what I expected once he got his own team, it could be happening in Minnesota had their owner just stayed out of the way. Butler isn't your regular dominate player which is why I'm following him before I try to become a full time Thunder fan (local team).

Lol I’m not changing the talk. You’re just hyper zoomed in and unwilling to look at things thru lenses other than your own. You go extreme claiming it’s absolutely everything but the org that has lead to recent success (after 2015!).

It’s where player fans go haywire.

Do your thing. I know you will parrot these same grievances until the end of time. Meanwhile i’m cruisin and enjoying the fruits of a well run org (warts and all).

Edit: there’s a GREAT irony to the most steadfast player-fan on this board advocating solely for going all-in on investing all future assets into any present marginal gain possible to benefit the timeline of said player while also hedging your own fan experience by being a fan of another franchise (OKC) that has completely sacrificed present success to maximize collection of future assets. Like WOW

So where have I said to go all-in on investing all assets? I have talked about replacing a starting PF to a roster that all they have in PFs is a project PF who's still not out of HS.

So, I think I figured this out, you either don't read my posts or you fantasize about what you think I'm actually saying and with that you get angry and counter with a lot of personal attacks.

Also, on the OKC fan thing, I said try because I don't really like their philosophy of tanking but of course you ignored me writing try, didn't think... why haven't this local OKC person become a Thunder fan yet, maybe he has an issue with them like their team building with tanking? You once again ignored what I said or made up in your head what I said to create a "gotcha" attack.

Congrats "cruisin and enjoying the fruits of a well run org (warts and all)", I'm glad you enjoy your team, I'm actually not here to piss anyone off, I'm here to talk about the team and listen to other opinions, especially with some substance to them. If you just want "we're number 1" posts, maybe you should put me as a foe, so you don't have to keep fantasizing what you think I wrote/mean.

I don’t use personal attacks.

I appreciate you as a poster. This has been a helpful exchange to understand where you’re coming from. We’re invested in different but overlapping things here.

Let’s go Heat

[gom]

The argument about past franchise moves is off-topic. You should start another thread.

[twix2500]

Beating the Knicks is like winning a play-in game.

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[twix2500]

So laughable how the national media seems so baffled by the Heat as if they didn't play in the Eastern Conference title game last year

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