Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[Baddy Chuck]

2021 Khris is gone. You have to accept that. Being early on Khris being a net negative is about 100x better than being late.

Guy was just our leading playoff scorer on elite efficiency. He has his warts but again, yeah I'm not that down on him.

True. And the counterpoint is he missed the playoffs last year and played only 33 regular season games. May have arthritic knee.

Love him at 3/$90.

At 4/$160 he puts us into the 2nd apron restrictions and could sink the roster if the knee is bad.

I'm fine with most of the reasons why we should trade him, as always with Khris they're pushed to the extreme and almost completely omit the player that he actually is though. Also like, Giannis is going to be 29 next season. Call me **** crazy but I want this team to be good right now. 39 year old PJ Tucker would have been a better pickup than just about any "we need to get younger!" guy the past couple seasons and largely I think Middleton is better than a lot of the stuff thats brought up about him now. We need good players. Middleton is still a good player. Comparing trading him to Russell **** Westbrook is a joke.

[RiotPunch]

If we end up with Nurse, I wonder if Poole would be viewed by Toronto as a *better than nothing* return for VanVleet. Maybe a deal where Khris (opt-in) goes to GSW, Poole to Toronto, FVV (opt-in) & Kuminga to us.

I’m definitely pro FVV but I might prefer keeping Poole myself over FVV and Kuminga. I’m not really sure but I don’t really view Kuminga as anything and I could probably go either way on Poole vs FVV. Poole is obviously a bigger gamble in the short term and FVV would blend in much better with the current makeup of the team but I’m not entirely convinced that’s a good thing here.


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I can understand that. I still think Kuminga would be a nice project as a switchable small ball 5 for us. Need to inject some athleticism into our rotation somehow.

[slos]

In 2020 Bucks traded for Jrue using #24 + 2025/2027 FRPs + 2024/2026 swaps. And that was without any blue chip player since Bled and Hill (both ended up getting bought out) were moved to match salaries.

This trade pretty much set the market for borderline all star players at their 28-30 moving out from rebuilding/retooling teams.

In 2024 Bucks will have an identical trade package. A late 1st + 2029/2031 FRPs + 2028/2030 swaps. And despite being identical I believe this package will have even more value with Giannis entering his 30s. In addition Bucks will have to include good value contracts like Allen (assuming he extends), Pat and Bobby.

Please please stop all these Jrue/Midds trades. We definitely won’t like what we will get offered at this point. And they are definitely not dinosaurs. Both have 2-3 years of borderline all star basketball. A new voice from the coaching stuff is already a huge change.

So… What’s the best we can get with that package in 2024? I have LaVine in my mind. We need a 2nd scoring option who will share Giannis’ timeline to extend his window that will push Jrue/Midds/Brook in lesser roles. Who do you have?

[giannis and 1]

In 2020 Bucks traded for Jrue using #24 + 2025/2027 FRPs + 2024/2026 swaps. And that was without any blue chip player since Bled and Hill (both ended up getting bought out) were moved to match salaries.

This trade pretty much set the market for borderline all star players at their 28-30 moving out from rebuilding/retooling teams.

In 2024 Bucks will have an identical trade package. A late 1st + 2029/2031 FRPs + 2028/2030 swaps. And despite being identical I believe this package will have even more value with Giannis entering his 30s. In addition Bucks will have to include good value contracts like Allen (assuming he extends), Pat and Bobby.

Please please stop all these Jrue/Midds trades. We definitely won’t like what we will get offered at this point. And they are definitely not dinosaurs. Both have 2-3 years of borderline all star basketball. A new voice from the coaching stuff is already a huge change.

So… What’s the best we can get with that package in 2024? I have LaVine in my mind. We need a 2nd scoring option who will share Giannis’ timeline to extend his window that will push Jrue/Midds/Brook in lesser roles. Who do you have?

Dame, OG, FVV

[Fotis St]

Imagine Jaylen Brown demands a trade after they get eliminated and Boston loves to get Khris... Khris for Jaylen would be perfect...

[Couch Potato]

Imagine Jaylen Brown demands a trade after they get eliminated and Boston loves to get Khris... Khris for Jaylen would be perfect...

Didn't Boston already offer up Brown for Middleton or Parker back in the day?

[JayMKE]

Imagine Jaylen Brown demands a trade after they get eliminated and Boston loves to get Khris... Khris for Jaylen would be perfect...

Didn't Boston already offer up Brown for Middleton or Parker back in the day?

must have missed this rumor

[Couch Potato]

Imagine Jaylen Brown demands a trade after they get eliminated and Boston loves to get Khris... Khris for Jaylen would be perfect...

Didn't Boston already offer up Brown for Middleton or Parker back in the day?

must have missed this rumor

Wasn't it on that draft when they were picking Brown. They wanted Middleton and/or Parker?

[MVP2110]

In 2020 Bucks traded for Jrue using #24 + 2025/2027 FRPs + 2024/2026 swaps. And that was without any blue chip player since Bled and Hill (both ended up getting bought out) were moved to match salaries.

This trade pretty much set the market for borderline all star players at their 28-30 moving out from rebuilding/retooling teams.

In 2024 Bucks will have an identical trade package. A late 1st + 2029/2031 FRPs + 2028/2030 swaps. And despite being identical I believe this package will have even more value with Giannis entering his 30s. In addition Bucks will have to include good value contracts like Allen (assuming he extends), Pat and Bobby.

Please please stop all these Jrue/Midds trades. We definitely won’t like what we will get offered at this point. And they are definitely not dinosaurs. Both have 2-3 years of borderline all star basketball. A new voice from the coaching stuff is already a huge change.

So… What’s the best we can get with that package in 2024? I have LaVine in my mind. We need a 2nd scoring option who will share Giannis’ timeline to extend his window that will push Jrue/Midds/Brook in lesser roles. Who do you have?

This isn't true with the new cba. If the Bucks are over the 2nd apron then they won't be able to trade the 2031 1st at that time, and if they bring back Khris and Brook it is very likely they'll be over the 2nd apron. I had assumed this was the plan for a long time but the new cba kind of kills that idea

[machu46]

If we end up with Nurse, I wonder if Poole would be viewed by Toronto as a *better than nothing* return for VanVleet. Maybe a deal where Khris (opt-in) goes to GSW, Poole to Toronto, FVV (opt-in) & Kuminga to us.

I’m definitely pro FVV but I might prefer keeping Poole myself over FVV and Kuminga. I’m not really sure but I don’t really view Kuminga as anything and I could probably go either way on Poole vs FVV. Poole is obviously a bigger gamble in the short term and FVV would blend in much better with the current makeup of the team but I’m not entirely convinced that’s a good thing here.


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I can understand that. I still think Kuminga would be a nice project as a switchable small ball 5 for us. Need to inject some athleticism into our rotation somehow.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn’t be mad if we took a flier on him. Just never really impressed me as a prospect and hasn’t done much to change that. But no doubt he’d immediately be one of the best athletes on our team by a good margin lol


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[slos]

In 2020 Bucks traded for Jrue using #24 + 2025/2027 FRPs + 2024/2026 swaps. And that was without any blue chip player since Bled and Hill (both ended up getting bought out) were moved to match salaries.

This trade pretty much set the market for borderline all star players at their 28-30 moving out from rebuilding/retooling teams.

In 2024 Bucks will have an identical trade package. A late 1st + 2029/2031 FRPs + 2028/2030 swaps. And despite being identical I believe this package will have even more value with Giannis entering his 30s. In addition Bucks will have to include good value contracts like Allen (assuming he extends), Pat and Bobby.

Please please stop all these Jrue/Midds trades. We definitely won’t like what we will get offered at this point. And they are definitely not dinosaurs. Both have 2-3 years of borderline all star basketball. A new voice from the coaching stuff is already a huge change.

So… What’s the best we can get with that package in 2024? I have LaVine in my mind. We need a 2nd scoring option who will share Giannis’ timeline to extend his window that will push Jrue/Midds/Brook in lesser roles. Who do you have?

This isn't true with the new cba. If the Bucks are over the 2nd apron then they won't be able to trade the 2031 1st at that time, and if they bring back Khris and Brook it is very likely they'll be over the 2nd apron. I had assumed this was the plan for a long time but the new cba kind of kills that idea

The 2nd apron should be at 190+ mil in 2024. Bucks should be able to add a 40ish contract assuming Midds and Jrue are both in 30ish deals and Brook at 10ish money.

It’s a doable plan. It would certainly hurt the depth since you can only keep Beauchamp (still in cheap rookie scale) for 6th and probably fill the roster with vets. But money can work for a “star” player without touching Jrue/Midds/Giannis/Brook core.

Lopez could also be at this point the odd man out. He’s the older one after all.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

2021 Khris is gone. You have to accept that. Being early on Khris being a net negative is about 100x better than being late.

Guy was just our leading playoff scorer on elite efficiency. He has his warts but again, yeah I'm not that down on him.

True. And the counterpoint is he missed the playoffs last year and played only 33 regular season games. May have arthritic knee.

Love him at 3/$90.

At 4/$160 he puts us into the 2nd apron restrictions and could sink the roster if the knee is bad.

if im not mistaken.....over the last 4 years giannis has missed more playoff games than khris.

id suggest theres just as good a chance middlton has more years left at a high level than giannis considering their skillsets

i think the "khris is almost done talk".... is just guys talking out their ass because he cant jump high and theyve never liked him.

if i were you i wouldnt go back to that group again pp. you always gravitate to that group and they always look the most dumbass around here repeatedly over and over to hardheaded to ever learn

[raferfenix]

The risk with Middleton seems much more about the years than money per year.

If he’d go for a 2 year extension, how much would we pay him per year do we think?

With his knee situation idk if Khash will even want to play so many more seasons. That’d especially be the case with a new team without the Giannis security blanket.

[Badgerlander]

So I would argue that Horst is just as responsible if not more than Bud for the early exit. I keep reading “we had the DEEPEST team ever” as his defense. Yes it was the deepest BUT it was the deepest at the two positions of our best players. Here is the depth chart based upon position(s) played in the playoffs.

PG - Jrue (91% of min played) / Carter (100%)

SG - Allen (88%) / Wes (67%) / Pat (47%) / Khris (11%) / Jae (10%)

SF - Jae (77%) / Khris (65%) / Pat (46%) / Joe (37%) / Wes (33%)

PF - Giannis (75%) / Bobby (66%) / Joe (62%) / Khris (25%) / Jae (14%)

C - Brook (100%) / Bobby (33%) / Giannis (25%)

We had THE OLDEST team in the playoffs and that was after trading 37 year old Hill and “33” year old Ibaka for 32 year old Crowder.

[raferfenix]

Horst should be on the clock as well at best.

Finding a way to acquire Josh Hart vs Jae Crowder would have made a big difference.

Running with Dragic as our only PG support obviously was way too little too late too. Far cry from FVV if there was a way to make that happen, or even Pat Bev.

Not like these holes were surprising either. We needed playmaking help on our championship run and the series of moves we made to replace PJ were all miserable failures. Horst needed to prevent the reallocation of those same Tucker dollars to Grayson Allen.

[emunney]

Guy was just our leading playoff scorer on elite efficiency. He has his warts but again, yeah I'm not that down on him.

True. And the counterpoint is he missed the playoffs last year and played only 33 regular season games. May have arthritic knee.

Love him at 3/$90.

At 4/$160 he puts us into the 2nd apron restrictions and could sink the roster if the knee is bad.

if im not mistaken.....over the last 4 years giannis has missed more playoff games than khris.

id suggest theres just as good a chance middlton has more years left at a high level than giannis considering their skillsets

i think the "khris is almost done talk".... is just guys talking out their ass because he cant jump high and theyve never liked him.

if i were you i wouldnt go back to that group again pp. you always gravitate to that group and they always look the most dumbass around here repeatedly over and over to hardheaded to ever learn

You're definitely mistaken about playoff games missed. You think Giannis missed more than 10?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

True. And the counterpoint is he missed the playoffs last year and played only 33 regular season games. May have arthritic knee.

Love him at 3/$90.

At 4/$160 he puts us into the 2nd apron restrictions and could sink the roster if the knee is bad.

if im not mistaken.....over the last 4 years giannis has missed more playoff games than khris.

id suggest theres just as good a chance middlton has more years left at a high level than giannis considering their skillsets

i think the "khris is almost done talk".... is just guys talking out their ass because he cant jump high and theyve never liked him.

if i were you i wouldnt go back to that group again pp. you always gravitate to that group and they always look the most dumbass around here repeatedly over and over to hardheaded to ever learn

You're definitely mistaken about playoff games missed. You think Giannis missed more than 10?

well hes missed games in 3 out of 4 years. i didnt bother to add it all up so maybe im wrong. perhaps its more the frequency and consistency of getting knocked out of the playoffs that confused me

[buckboy]

if im not mistaken.....over the last 4 years giannis has missed more playoff games than khris.

id suggest theres just as good a chance middlton has more years left at a high level than giannis considering their skillsets

i think the "khris is almost done talk".... is just guys talking out their ass because he cant jump high and theyve never liked him.

if i were you i wouldnt go back to that group again pp. you always gravitate to that group and they always look the most dumbass around here repeatedly over and over to hardheaded to ever learn

You're definitely mistaken about playoff games missed. You think Giannis missed more than 10?

well hes missed games in 3 out of 4 years. i didnt bother to add it all up so maybe im wrong. perhaps its more the frequency and consistency of getting knocked out of the playoffs that confused me

Giannis has missed 5 playoff games in his career (6 if you count game 1 this year).
Khris missed 10 last year, but those are the only 10 in his career.

[RiotPunch]

In 2020 Bucks traded for Jrue using #24 + 2025/2027 FRPs + 2024/2026 swaps. And that was without any blue chip player since Bled and Hill (both ended up getting bought out) were moved to match salaries.

This trade pretty much set the market for borderline all star players at their 28-30 moving out from rebuilding/retooling teams.

In 2024 Bucks will have an identical trade package. A late 1st + 2029/2031 FRPs + 2028/2030 swaps. And despite being identical I believe this package will have even more value with Giannis entering his 30s. In addition Bucks will have to include good value contracts like Allen (assuming he extends), Pat and Bobby.

Please please stop all these Jrue/Midds trades. We definitely won’t like what we will get offered at this point. And they are definitely not dinosaurs. Both have 2-3 years of borderline all star basketball. A new voice from the coaching stuff is already a huge change.

So… What’s the best we can get with that package in 2024? I have LaVine in my mind. We need a 2nd scoring option who will share Giannis’ timeline to extend his window that will push Jrue/Midds/Brook in lesser roles. Who do you have?

This isn't true with the new cba. If the Bucks are over the 2nd apron then they won't be able to trade the 2031 1st at that time, and if they bring back Khris and Brook it is very likely they'll be over the 2nd apron. I had assumed this was the plan for a long time but the new cba kind of kills that idea

I think his argument is that the payroll would be under the "projected" 2nd apron, which I do not think his math checks out (unless he means potentially after the 2024-25 season). If we finish next season over the 2nd apron, we cannot trade those picks. It is a good plan for if/when Khris walks, or if we're able to maneuver below the apron.

[RogerMurdock]

Low BBIQ is the last thing we need.

But what about Low Country BBQ?