NBA PLAYOFFS: Game 5: (4) Phoenix Suns @ (1) Denver Nuggets l Tuesday l 7:00pm l TNT l Series tied 2-2

[King4Day]

You guys can think what you want but if the NBA were going to influence this series, they aren't passing up a KD/LeBron or Curry battle.
Suns just have too many holes and must play a relatively perfect game to have a chance. Seeing us do that 10 more times is pretty difficult.

In fairness to KD.... I agree he looks really bad but he's taking really bad shots and being forced to do way too much.
I look back to the Lakers. They added solid depth by giving up practically nothing. There are ways. Jones will need to be smart (if he's still Suns GM).
I also think they need to take a real look at Monty as the next coach will likely be our last with the Book/KD combo.

Just have to hit the right buttons this summer.

[PittsburghSuns]

Sucks wasting these prime Book years because of bad roster management and DA being a total bust/head case/disgruntled whining B. NBA is a young mans game we made a terrible decision signing CP to that extension then double down on another over the hill vet by giving up young talent and draft picks. There is no doubt in my mind this team is better if we kept what we had still not winning a championship this year because of Paul and DA but the future would be different.

[BobbieL]

You guys can think what you want but if the NBA were going to influence this series, they aren't passing up a KD/LeBron or Curry battle.
Suns just have too many holes and must play a relatively perfect game to have a chance. Seeing us do that 10 more times is pretty difficult.

In fairness to KD.... I agree he looks really bad but he's taking really bad shots and being forced to do way too much.
I look back to the Lakers. They added solid depth by giving up practically nothing. There are ways. Jones will need to be smart (if he's still Suns GM).
I also think they need to take a real look at Monty as the next coach will likely be our last with the Book/KD combo.

Just have to hit the right buttons this summer.

I thikn Week brought it up but Sarver didn't let Jones spend the TPMLE - presumably. That one player might have been a help along the way.

Granted, the trade did take away a boat load of depth. Not that Crowder was playing

Oh well, see you thursday

[Jdiddy701]

I’m benching DA next game and live with the results. I’d start Jock and have Bizzy come of the bench. Every time DA is on the court, he’s giving us absolutely nothing on both ends - zero effort. How the hell do you get out hustled down the floor by Nikola Jokic?


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[PittsburghSuns]

I’m benching DA next game and live with the results. I’d start Jock and have Bizzy come of the bench. Every time DA is on the court, he’s giving us absolutely nothing on both ends - zero effort. How the hell do you get out hustled down the floor by Nikola Jokic?


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Maybe it’s because he was a number 1 pick and I so badly wanted the young man to flourish here but it’s clear he is completely checked out from this organization there is no going back or turning things around. They have to move on from him ASAP

[enigmatics]

I’m benching DA next game and live with the results. I’d start Jock and have Bizzy come of the bench. Every time DA is on the court, he’s giving us absolutely nothing on both ends - zero effort. How the hell do you get out hustled down the floor by Nikola Jokic?

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On most (if not all) nights the Suns have two of the three best players on the court. It could be argued that it should be 3 of the top 4 as the the X-factor was supposed to be DA i.e. the guy you have no answers for because you're spending all night long trying to stop KD/Book. Instead it's the Tin Man out there in the #22 jersey and nobody is about to bring him a heart.

I don't think I've ever experienced this much aggravation watching the team aside from the bonehead rotations and lack of any scripted plays. I'm aggravated from having to watch some pouty, no sack having, genetic lottery winning, $35 million per year POS who REFUSES to man up and take advantage of what's right in front of him. It's borderline sabotage at this point.

This doesn't work this year without him buying in and he's f-ing it up for the whole team. You can see it on the team's face they are so fed up at this point.

[sunsbg]

How Craig plays less than Okogie and Warren after his first round performance is mind-boggling. He played 4 mins so he's not injured.

We wanted Warren and Ross to play more minutes and you can't play those guys solid minutes IF you play Craig too.

Book and KD are gonna play always over 40 mpg, not too many minutes available at 2/3/4.

Why would anyone want to play a washed up Warren over the man who had great 1st round series. Makes zero sense. Craig should have been in the starting lineup over Okogie, Ross should take minutes from Shamet.

[Saberestar]

How Craig plays less than Okogie and Warren after his first round performance is mind-boggling. He played 4 mins so he's not injured.

We wanted Warren and Ross to play more minutes and you can't play those guys solid minutes IF you play Craig too.

Book and KD are gonna play always over 40 mpg, not too many minutes available at 2/3/4.

Why would anyone want to play a washed up Warren over the man who had great 1st round series. Makes zero sense. Craig should have been in the starting lineup over Okogie, Ross should take minutes from Shamet.

Warren played very well in the 3rd and 4th game, he was rock solid on defense and scored on key moments. He didn't commit mistakes.

But in the last game he had a good first half but a bad second half. He couldn't score when he had some good opportunities.

[Calvin Klein]

I don't get why people get so mad about some guys not playing or guys playing over others. Everybody outside of the "main 4" are terribly flawed. They will be able to get you good games every once in a while but none of them can be trusted consistently. It's basically a roulette of role players and you have to pray that they have a good game if they play.

[PittsburghSuns]

I don't get why people get so mad about some guys not playing or guys playing over others. Everybody outside of the "main 4" are terribly flawed. They will be able to get you good games every once in a while but none of them can be trusted consistently. It's basically a roulette of role players and you have to pray that they have a good game if they play.

Agreed. All these bench players have significant flaws. To put it lightly our bench is horrendous. Another reason why the KD trade hurts it took away the little depth we had.

[Hitachi77]

Needless to say, we can really benefit from an off-season + entire season playing together. The issues we are seeing now are the result of many things, but one of them is the lack of time playing together as a whole. Basically this team got thrown into the deep end off the bat, and the only reason it has worked as well as it has is because of how easily KD can be plug and played.

That said, it’s not over yet. We really should win game 6. Hopefully CP3 comes back, then it’s 2 days off and an anything-can-happen game 7. Maybe they will buckle under pressure a little like we did last year.

[sunsbg]

I don't get why people get so mad about some guys not playing or guys playing over others. Everybody outside of the "main 4" are terribly flawed. They will be able to get you good games every once in a while but none of them can be trusted consistently. It's basically a roulette of role players and you have to pray that they have a good game if they play.

Do you think anything of that will change next season ? Are only Suns role players flawed ? Craig was consistently good in 1st round, so again, if the others are so flawed what's the explanation for not playing him more ? Heat have two undrafted players in the starting lineup and will have a chance to make the finals.

[Calvin Klein]

I don't get why people get so mad about some guys not playing or guys playing over others. Everybody outside of the "main 4" are terribly flawed. They will be able to get you good games every once in a while but none of them can be trusted consistently. It's basically a roulette of role players and you have to pray that they have a good game if they play.

Do you think anything of that will change next season ? Are only Suns role players flawed ? Craig was consistently good in 1st round, so again, if the others are so flawed what's the explanation for not playing him more ? Heat have two undrafted players in the starting lineup and will have a chance to make the finals.

I just don't think any of the role players warrant any outrage if they are not being played. None stands out over the others that much.

Craig had a great first round but we've seen him being terrible many times as well. Who knows...

[sunsfan1o1]

After last night Monty definitely needs to go.
Why are the nuggets 2 worst defenders in Jokic and Murray, who ironically are their 2 best offensive players, not being forced to play defense?

They just sit around all game resting on defense while Monty has Booker and KD going ISO on double teams.

Where are the switches? Where are the screens?
And on defense why the f doesn’t he double Murray or Jokic?

Why the f are they still playing drop coverage on Murray?

This coach is so bad

Jamal Murray and Jokic must love playing against Monty Williams coached team. They don’t have to play any defense.

Stop playing Shamet. Sub in Craig for Okogie and pressure Murray full court all game.

Put Craig on Brown and full court press that trash.

Make Jokic come out and guard the perimeter and get his slow ass in foul trouble.

Denver is easy to game plan against. But when you have a dumb coach they look amazing.

[kennydorglas]

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Not even the BIGGEST DA HATER IN THE WORLD would imagine this dude would crap the bed this bad.
We lost 5 years with this guy.

[enigmatics]

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Not even the BIGGEST DA HATER IN THE WORLD would imagine this dude would crap the bed this bad.
We lost 5 years with this guy.

Don't forget the pathetic job protecting the glass. Jokic can't even jump and he's got moments where he nabs 1-2 straight offensive rebounds vs. Ayton after a miss.

[Bogyo]

I don't get why people get so mad about some guys not playing or guys playing over others. Everybody outside of the "main 4" are terribly flawed. They will be able to get you good games every once in a while but none of them can be trusted consistently. It's basically a roulette of role players and you have to pray that they have a good game if they play.

Agreed. All these bench players have significant flaws. To put it lightly our bench is horrendous. Another reason why the KD trade hurts it took away the little depth we had.

Becouse some are worse than the others. Objectively.
Also, our bench is might not be as bad as you make it out to be. It's just not used efficiently - a lot of people did not want Love, and I would bet my bottom dollar that he would be riding the pine here and ppl would say that he sucks and he is washed - and he is playing a significant role (and minutes) in the Heat who are going to the WCF. Our bench is not Marcus Banks, Eric Piatkowsky and the corpse of Jalen Rose. We have able basketball players (who are flawed to some degree for sure, not all nba talent, could be better, etc...) BUT we don't use them as good as we should.

So: our GM did not put the best possible team together, and our coach is not getting out the most of the said players. This is the 3rd straight year (at least) that this has happened. We will never win a championship like this. Fookers need to go in the offseason.

[kennydorglas]

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Not even the BIGGEST DA HATER IN THE WORLD would imagine this dude would crap the bed this bad.
We lost 5 years with this guy.

Don't forget the pathetic job protecting the glass. Jokic can't even jump and he's got moments where he's got sequences of 1-2 straight offensive rebounds vs. Ayton after a miss.

His tesla motor must be broken

[Ghost of Kleine]

Count me in on the "it's not coaching."

This team has 4 **** "superstars." The team was constructed to rely on them. One is injured. One is a heartless pussbag loser. One is inconsistent and has proven to be cancerous. One is balling out.

You're not gonna win when your team is a house of cards.

These players are here to "get it done." It's literally why the roster is constructed this way. If they can't, they need to go. The coach doesn't or shouldn't need to do a **** thing when you have 4 players like we do.

Basketball already relies least on coaching. I'm sorry. It ain't Monty's fault. Yeah he's gotta play losers like Shamet cuz that's all he's got. Players need to perform and the GM should have done a better job not giving into the whims of top-heavy 2023-style roster construction.

The entire **** franchise should be folded for passing on Doncic anyway.

I'm sorry man! But I'm gonna have to disagree with you here! Sure it's not all on Monty, as the players depth, etc are ALL FACTORS! However, the coaching is ABSOLUTELY a big factor just as those other factors mentioned. We're passive, mentally weak, unfocused and haven't played motivated and with energy and urgency for a long time now! Now whose job is it to ensure all those criteria are actually met to promote success in games if not the coach? Sure players do a lot more themselves these days. But Williams was hired to lead, strategize (gameplan) create optimal rotations, utilize timeouts, keep the players engaged on the stated goals of the franchise/fanbase. He didn't get hired to just be a spectator 80-90% of the time. Coaches job is also to communicate directions to players unless people believe the players should just be calling their own timeouts and coming up with plays and checking themselves in and out per matchup or for rest! But then if that was truly on the players themselves, then why are coaches needed or hired at all. Coaches can fire up their players with motivational speeches, communicate with refs as a buffer between them and players towards the interests of those players getting benefit of calls. Again, IF coaches aren't that important in the overall success of teams and the emphasis falls on the players instead to lead the team themselves, then why are their tiers of coaches, coaching awards, bother hiring coaches at all.

The obvious differences in the perspective view here of the importance of the role of coaches to winning games, series, championships can be easily compared by the coaches overall record of success, development system and scheme leading to overall success as well as individual success of players in their system and especially what they can achieve with what they're given. Now again, I've repeatedly stated that Williams isn't fully to blame given the cumulative concerns surrounding this team's composition. But he's absolutely a significant or prominent factor in our under achievements as it pertains to this series, and overall in 2/3 of our postseason failures! For this series, overplaying favored players (Shamet) that outside of a singular outlier performance have absolutely killed us in terms of contribution instead of playing more established and proven producers in Ross and Warren. It took him two games to break his rigidity in this and actually play these two to help bench production. Had he not been so incredibly stubborn, We might actually be up in the series instead of facing another early dismissal. Also:

- Still not making any in game adjustments to counter Denver's strategy until after the fact almost two games in in Phoenix.

- Still not figuring out our rotations almost 5 games into the series.

- Not playing Craig or Landale in a pivotal game 5 until garbage time and the game was already lost for us even though Landale has been our best center option (sadly) and Craig has been a strong rebounder and solid defender with much better size than Shamet, and we needed rebounding help obviously and better perimeter defense. And with respect to rebounding and rim protection, he didn't even play Biyombo at all, even though Biyombo has been our best shot blocker and interior defender for awhile now.

-What about having a gameplan or strategy for the players to counter and exploit the oppositions positional and schematic weaknesses. Like maybe pushing the pace more from the jump seeing as how it's common knowledge that the Nuggets don't have legitimate rim protectors and many of their players can't defend optimally on the break. Or maybe actually play Biyombo some for rebounding and rim protection UNDERSTANDING how Jokic gets a ton of offensive rebounds by tip ins and many of their players have been going right to the rim with little resistance from us. Almost like it's important to know your players skillsets and capabilities in specific matchups??

- What about actually using a timeout when the Nuggets were going on their big runs to slow down or stop that offensive momentum and maybe I don't know get your players refocused and not just standing around watching Booker and Durant ISO the whole game? Like have an actual strategy to get other players (HIS PLAYERS) better involved and contributing??

- What about maybe not just sitting there quietly and passively the entire game and instead being more vocal with the refs and showing your players you're willing to fight for them and on your team's behalf because maybe then IF they see how much the coach cares and is willing to fight for them, then they'll get fired up and energized to battle too! Kind of like what Mike Malone has done that powered (energized) his players to play so dominantly and go on those big runs?
- What about having your players ready coming out of halftime with even some modicum of interest and a sense of urgency so they maybe don't surrender a 39 point quarter with little resistance?

- How about not pulling and sitting your players as soon as they get a hot hand and find their offensive rhythm until they get cold again in a series where the opposition is already elite offensively? Especially when your starters aside from one (Booker) are severely struggling or just not showing up at all? Why should it take 3 games for a tenured nba coach to see something that's clearly obvious to literally everyone else?

All of these things are part of Monty's job description to ensure are met as a coach. The players of course have to do their parts but then so do the coaches in leading their players situationally and putting them into the best possible situation for success given their knowledge of their roster and it's overall capabilities. This is not something unique either, but the basic foundational expectations for any head coach. Williams has had over a week to get this team ready and focused on this series and the known scheme that Denver utilizes around Jokic and how they should gameplan around the oppositions strengths and weaknesses to secure an optimal outcome. Yet he doesn't figure out the obvious until at least game three of the series once we're already down 2-0 ??

All these things are critically important factors in coaching and coaching responsibilities as it pertains to/ impacts wins and losses. And Monty's overall postseason record so far going into game 5 reflects at 1-3 (If we get booted early) yet again in the 2nd round. We're just to heavily leveraged with title aspirations in this to come up short of our postseason goals for the 3rd straight postseason under Williams. Expectations are very high (as they should be) anytime you have a player of Durant's Caliber, Booker playing like a top 5 talent himself, a HOF level guard and even a number one pick too. Now in fairness, as I've repeatedly said, all of these CUMULATIVE concerned will be reviewed under heavy scrutiny this offseason. And it's NOT ALL ON MONTY ALONE, But he is one of the legitimate concerning factors as it's looking like he's getting severely outcoached yet again in what would be 3-4 postseason series!

[Ghost of Kleine]

You guys can think what you want but if the NBA were going to influence this series, they aren't passing up a KD/LeBron or Curry battle.
Suns just have too many holes and must play a relatively perfect game to have a chance. Seeing us do that 10 more times is pretty difficult.

In fairness to KD.... I agree he looks really bad but he's taking really bad shots and being forced to do way too much.
I look back to the Lakers. They added solid depth by giving up practically nothing. There are ways. Jones will need to be smart (if he's still Suns GM).
I also think they need to take a real look at Monty as the next coach will likely be our last with the Book/KD combo.

Just have to hit the right buttons this summer.

Perhaps it's true that our Book/KD matchup would be an exciting proposition, But then Consider a Jokic/ Gordon/Murray VS Davis/Lebron/D Russell matchup with the NBA's historically great multi time MVP level center against the (self proclaimed) "GOAT" and the draw of the possible upset factor of a 1 seed getting toppled by a Lebron led play in team so Lebron can get one last ring before playing with Bronny! And then the league can do a flakers/ Philly or a flakers/ Boston or a flakers /Miami matchup that would offer much higher ratings and better matchups (per market interest) than ours with a struggling Durant, over the hill oft injured Paul, and a absent and very disappointing Ayton and literally no bench depth. Any of these finals would offer immense ratings/ revenue, etc:
- Lebron/AD/ Russell .............. Jokic/ Murray/ Gordon?
- Lebron/AD/ Russell .............. Harden/Embiid/ Maxey?
- Lebron/AD/ Russell .............. Tatum/ Brown/Horford?
- Lebron/AD/ Russell .............. Butler/Adebayo/ Lowry?
OR (IF they promote Jokic and Denver)??
Imagine a Murray/Gordon/Jokic VS Maxey/ Harden/ Jokic finals! Jokic against Embiid. BOTH MVP level historically good centers. Embiid defensively and Jokic offensively! MVP VS MVP, ALSO Harden (or Maxey) against Murray. Gordon against Harris. Porter Jr against McDaniels. Tucker against KCP...lol Both teams deep and very good! BOTH teams trying to get their stars their first ever Championship! This would be a win/win scenario for the league in terms of ratings and revenue. Then for now, the refs help Denver (as they clearly have) win the series in 7 games so the NBA can get revenue/ ratings from another game 7, and the refs themselves get paid more for the additional postseason games as well as being able to bet on games they can so obviously influence.

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