Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[WuTang_CMB]

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[WuTang_CMB]

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[HumbleRen]

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They sagging off him even in his pick up ? That’s foul lol.

[OakleyDokely]

Looks like typical Clipper regular season defense to me.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[WuTang_CMB]

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[WuTang_CMB]

This is how they should be building around Scottie

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[Raps in 4]

This is how they should be building around Scottie

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I've been saying it since last season. Scottie is Jokic Lite. Hopefully the new coach can see that, although I'm not sure how Fred would handle it.

[pingpongrac]

This is how they should be building around Scottie

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It's impossible to replicate because Scottie and Jokic are two very differently built players (Jokic has 2-3 inches and 50+ pounds on Scottie) at very different stages of their careers. When Jokic was 21, he was much more gifted offensively than Scottie (22/13/6 per36 on 64 TS% vs 16/7/5 on 52 TS%) which led to the Nuggets clearing the way for Jokic by moving off of Nurkic and Gallinari. It took many moves after the fact to find a starting lineup that worked as well as this one does for the Nuggets (Murray/Harris/Chandler/Millsap/Jokic for a season and Murray/Harris/Barton or Craig/Millsap/Jokic for two seasons then they slotted MPJ and Gordon into the starting lineup for a few seasons before finally adding KCP this season) and they still weren't even thought of to be legitimate contenders until recently.

We need a C alongside Scottie and that changes things drastically because you aren't going to find many floor-spacing bigs that aren't bad defenders, so the next best thing is a player like Poeltl. Then you're stuck with one complete non-shooting threat and a poor shooter as well as an average shooter if Siakam is included. If Scottie could hit ~35% of his threes and ~50% of his mid-range attempts like Jokic, we'd be in business. Without the ability to reliably score outside of 10 feet though, it's pointless to make these comparisons between a soon-to-be 3rd-year Scottie and arguably the best overall offensive player in the league in his prime in Jokic. There are just way too many holes in Scottie's game right now to be throwing away someone like Siakam in the hopes that Scottie figures it out (which I think he will eventually) and becomes a top 10-20 player (which is a big mystery).

[WuTang_CMB]

This is how they should be building around Scottie

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's impossible to replicate because Scottie and Jokic are two very differently built players (Jokic has 2-3 inches and 50+ pounds on Scottie) at very different stages of their careers. When Jokic was 21, he was much more gifted offensively than Scottie (22/13/6 per36 on 64 TS% vs 16/7/5 on 52 TS%) which led to the Nuggets clearing the way for Jokic by moving off of Nurkic and Gallinari. It took many moves after the fact to find a starting lineup that worked as well as this one does for the Nuggets (Murray/Harris/Chandler/Millsap/Jokic for a season and Murray/Harris/Barton or Craig/Millsap/Jokic for two seasons then they slotted MPJ and Gordon into the starting lineup for a few seasons before finally adding KCP this season) and they still weren't even thought of to be legitimate contenders until recently.

We need a C alongside Scottie and that changes things drastically because you aren't going to find many floor-spacing bigs that aren't bad defenders, so the next best thing is a player like Poeltl. Then you're stuck with one complete non-shooting threat and a poor shooter as well as an average shooter if Siakam is included. If Scottie could hit ~35% of his threes and ~50% of his mid-range attempts like Jokic, we'd be in business. Without the ability to reliably score outside of 10 feet though, it's pointless to make these comparisons between a soon-to-be 3rd-year Scottie and arguably the best overall offensive player in the league in his prime in Jokic.

This isn't a comparison between the two. They are different players. But the one thing they both have is passing and vision as bigs which can be used to quarterback an offense as Jokic has done in Denver. Coaches are pitching (Jordi with Sabonis / Adelman with Jokic) to Masai right now how that would work in a Scottie based on offense where he's the hub and players are constantly moving in order to accommodate his skill.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Sabonis basically crumpled when he lost confidence in his jump shot, which is why I suspect that no one is biting on Scottie in the Jokic/Sabonis role. In the playoffs everyone is paying attention. It's a timeout to re-assign coverages to cutters/shooters. Jokic is an entire tier ahead of even Sabonis as a scorer, and some argue he's the greatest passer of all time. The Raptors were running a few of those actions with Poeltl, because Poeltl is just more efficient as a scorer. But during the play-in he just couldn't get anything done. Unless Scottie comes back an entirely different calibre of scorer the Raptors can't build their offense around him as a Sabonis/Jokic hub. That being said, Scottie can do things off the bounce those two can't and so there's two utilities for him to initiate offense.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is closer to Sabonis or a Lamar Odom then he is Jokic.

Jokic is a lethal 3 level scorer and is 7 foot lol. They play nothing alike, the only similar thing they have in common is their ability to make passes in tight windows. Scottie raw talent in passing means nothing unless he becomes a threat on offence.

The sheer fact that he averaged 5 assists per game despite having almost no scoring gravity is absurd in its own right. If he was 75% the scorer that Siakam was, Scottie would probably average a triple double lol.

[Raps in 4]

Scottie is closer to Sabonis or a Lamar Odom then he is Jokic.

Jokic is a lethal 3 level scorer and is 7 foot lol. They play nothing alike, the only similar thing they have in common is their ability to make passes in tight windows. Scottie raw talent in passing means nothing unless he becomes a threat on offence.

The sheer fact that he averaged 5 assists per game despite having almost no scoring gravity is absurd in its own right. If he was 75% the scorer that Siakam was, Scottie would probably average a triple double lol.

Who cares what comp he's closer to now. He's 21. You try to develop him for the best case scenario. If he doesn't pan out, so be it.

[HumbleRen]

Scottie is closer to Sabonis or a Lamar Odom then he is Jokic.

Jokic is a lethal 3 level scorer and is 7 foot lol. They play nothing alike, the only similar thing they have in common is their ability to make passes in tight windows. Scottie raw talent in passing means nothing unless he becomes a threat on offence.

The sheer fact that he averaged 5 assists per game despite having almost no scoring gravity is absurd in its own right. If he was 75% the scorer that Siakam was, Scottie would probably average a triple double lol.

Who cares what comp he's closer to now. He's 21. You try to develop him for the best case scenario. If he doesn't pan out, so be it.

Oh I agree lol. I want to see this team be build to accentuate Scottie's strengths and weaknesses. I just want to temper expectations when people bring up Jokic lol.

[WuTang_CMB]

Scottie is closer to Sabonis or a Lamar Odom then he is Jokic.

Jokic is a lethal 3 level scorer and is 7 foot lol. They play nothing alike, the only similar thing they have in common is their ability to make passes in tight windows. Scottie raw talent in passing means nothing unless he becomes a threat on offence.

The sheer fact that he averaged 5 assists per game despite having almost no scoring gravity is absurd in its own right. If he was 75% the scorer that Siakam was, Scottie would probably average a triple double lol.

Who cares what comp he's closer to now. He's 21. You try to develop him for the best case scenario. If he doesn't pan out, so be it.

Oh I agree lol. I want to see this team be build to accentuate Scottie's strengths and weaknesses. I just want to temper expectations when people bring up Jokic lol.

No one compared him to Jokic. We don't even know what Scottie is yet, he's a pup. But we would be doing a disservice to him and our team if we are going to roll out an offense where he isn't a hub (or one of) for next season. We don't know if he's capable but now is the time to integrate him in an offense that can play to his strengths.

[dTox]

Can we not develop him as a hybrid SF/PF? Why do we need to make Scottie into Jokic when their games are nothing alike, is it because both are pass first players? If I was the Raptors FO, I'd get him in the gym with Drew Hanlan and put him through the Tatum workout program.

[HumbleRen]

Can we not develop him as a hybrid SF/PF? Why do we need to make Scottie into Jokic when their games are nothing alike, is it because both are pass first players? If I was the Raptors FO, I'd get him in the gym with Drew Hanlan and put him through the Tatum workout program.

Siakam's gotta go then.

God willing.

[pingpongrac]

This is how they should be building around Scottie

Read on Twitter

?s=20

It's impossible to replicate because Scottie and Jokic are two very differently built players (Jokic has 2-3 inches and 50+ pounds on Scottie) at very different stages of their careers. When Jokic was 21, he was much more gifted offensively than Scottie (22/13/6 per36 on 64 TS% vs 16/7/5 on 52 TS%) which led to the Nuggets clearing the way for Jokic by moving off of Nurkic and Gallinari. It took many moves after the fact to find a starting lineup that worked as well as this one does for the Nuggets (Murray/Harris/Chandler/Millsap/Jokic for a season and Murray/Harris/Barton or Craig/Millsap/Jokic for two seasons then they slotted MPJ and Gordon into the starting lineup for a few seasons before finally adding KCP this season) and they still weren't even thought of to be legitimate contenders until recently.

We need a C alongside Scottie and that changes things drastically because you aren't going to find many floor-spacing bigs that aren't bad defenders, so the next best thing is a player like Poeltl. Then you're stuck with one complete non-shooting threat and a poor shooter as well as an average shooter if Siakam is included. If Scottie could hit ~35% of his threes and ~50% of his mid-range attempts like Jokic, we'd be in business. Without the ability to reliably score outside of 10 feet though, it's pointless to make these comparisons between a soon-to-be 3rd-year Scottie and arguably the best overall offensive player in the league in his prime in Jokic.

This isn't a comparison between the two. They are different players. But the one thing they both have is passing and vision as bigs which can be used to quarterback an offense as Jokic has done in Denver. Coaches are pitching (Jordi with Sabonis / Adelman with Jokic) to Masai right now how that would work in a Scottie based on offense where he's the hub and players are constantly moving in order to accommodate his skill.

The reason the Nuggets built around Jokic like that is because of his unique skillset as a 7-footer which is wildly different than Scottie's skillset. It confused me and I thought it was a comparison between the two because you said we should build around Scottie like how the Nuggets built around Jokic. My bad.

[ConSarnit]

Who cares what comp he's closer to now. He's 21. You try to develop him for the best case scenario. If he doesn't pan out, so be it.

Oh I agree lol. I want to see this team be build to accentuate Scottie's strengths and weaknesses. I just want to temper expectations when people bring up Jokic lol.

No one compared him to Jokic. We don't even know what Scottie is yet, he's a pup. But we would be doing a disservice to him and our team if we are going to roll out an offense where he isn't a hub (or one of) for next season. We don't know if he's capable but now is the time to integrate him in an offense that can play to his strengths.

We don't have an offense that can play to his strengths. We have a C who can't spread the floor and a PF who is an average shooter at best (and wants to get to the rim). If we lose Trent we lose 1/3 of our shooting threats. In Barnes' current form this roster is not doing him any favors. If the template is Jokic/Sabonis those guys team's all have multiple high volume 3pt shooters in their starting lineups. We're going to be lucky to have 2 on the entire roster next year.

The dirty secret is that if Barnes comes back next year and still can't shoot he's not going to be worth building around, at least not with this roster (or maybe any). Teams were giving him the Tony Allen treatment this year at times by not guarding him at all. How many non-shooting wings/pf can you build a successful offense around?

[WuTang_CMB]

Oh I agree lol. I want to see this team be build to accentuate Scottie's strengths and weaknesses. I just want to temper expectations when people bring up Jokic lol.

No one compared him to Jokic. We don't even know what Scottie is yet, he's a pup. But we would be doing a disservice to him and our team if we are going to roll out an offense where he isn't a hub (or one of) for next season. We don't know if he's capable but now is the time to integrate him in an offense that can play to his strengths.

We don't have an offense that can play to his strengths. We have a C who can't spread the floor and a PF who is an average shooter at best (and wants to get to the rim). If we lose Trent we lose 1/3 of our shooting threats. In Barnes' current form this roster is not doing him any favors. If the template is Jokic/Sabonis those guys team's all have multiple high volume 3pt shooters in their starting lineups. We're going to be lucky to have 2 on the entire roster next year.

The dirty secret is that if Barnes comes back next year and still can't shoot he's not going to be worth building around, at least not with this roster (or maybe any). Teams were giving him the Tony Allen treatment this year at times by not guarding him at all. How many non-shooting wings/pf can you build a successful offense around?

That’s why the new hire will need to integrate him and make him a focal point in the offense. You cant let this guy sail on his own with no touches like he did this past season. Just doesnt make any sense for him or our team. I dont think the 3pt shot will ever get there but he made decent strides with his mid range when he had chances. He’s gotta cement that this off season. Secondly this team needs shooting and movement around him, something that i think gets fixed this offseason.