2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[rk2023]

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Very ‘interesting’ choices here.

This is how my ballot would have looked like, as a voter - assuming RS evaluation is the means behind selections. Worth noting I’m being more flexible with positions than how the league selects such.

G: Alex Caruso
G/F: Jrue Holiday
F: Jimmy Butler
F/C: Evan Mobley
C: Jaren Jackson Jr.

G: Derrick White
G/F: Jaden McDaniels
F: OG Anunoby
F/C: Anthony Davis
C: Brook Lopez

As the boards staunch Jaden McDaniels supporter, I didn't expect him to make the cut. I like him better than Brooks defensively [quicker, better lateral quickness, more spry vs Brooks advantage in strength, lower to ground] but they are in the same tier [to me].

It is nice to see the voters actually think about this rather than throw legacy votes like they did for Kobe for so many years [For example, had Giannis been voted in this year].

Yeah. As flawed as they can be sometimes, I like the use/usage of synergy tracking and defensive impact metrics (the latter much more relevant to the first premise here) in order to guide selections / votes rather than name-brand and the biases resulting from this approach. Basketball Index is a very fun platform to utilize (only consume the podcast and LEBRON data, as I don’t pay), and I’ve very much enjoyed their perspective on defensive awards and how the team interprets their in-house defensive data.

[jalengreen]

So with 1st round in the books, some thoughts:

[...]

When I think about the big'un, POY, I feel like I'm likely down to 7 top contenders based on the teams left:

Jokic
Embiid
Butler
Tatum
AD
Curry
Booker

It's certainly possible that someone else shining from those 7 teams (Jaylen, LeBron, Dray, KD, etc) re-shapes the dynamic within that team, but I think it's unlikely that someone already eliminated will grab one of the 5 slots.

Also, only team left with no representation here is the Knicks. No insult intended, just think this is more about a collective team than it is about any one player.

Looking back as I'm now forming my thoughts halfway into the second round, I think this is a sound list of ballot contenders.

Current order that I'm thinking about as things stand & for me to build off of later

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Embiid
5. Davis
6. Antetokounmpo
7. Curry
8. Booker

Jokic at #1 feels pretty solid right now. Had the best regular season IMO, on the #1 seed, and has had a much stronger postseason than the other top MVP contenders (Embiid, Giannis).

Embiid had the 2nd best regular season behind Jokic, but both Butler & Tatum are having better postseasons after strong regular seasons impact-wise. Tatum also has a significant advantage in availability - 448 minutes over Embiid. Obviously, Tatum and Embiid are playing in a series against one another right now, which could affect the margins, but as it stands the 76ers have won two games in which Harden was the single biggest reason for the win.

Transcendent postseason from AD on the defensive end right now. He's been the best player for a Lakers team that beat the Grizzlies in 6 and are up 3-1 on the Warriors, both series they entered as underdogs (+140 and +130 respectively). I haven't seen a better playoff run from an individual defender in the modern NBA, and it isn't just the playoffs - he should've made the All-Defense 2nd team IMO. Looking ahead, the Lakers have a real shot at being the 2nd team ever ('95 rockets) to win a chip as the underdogs in every series they played. And AD is the driving force of that.

Elite regular season for Giannis (albeit below his standards) & a virtually nonexistent postseason. Not really any point putting him here because there's nothing that'll put him in the top 5, but this is where I think I'd have him if the season ended today.

I'm relatively low on Curry's regular season (just like last year). The Warriors underperformed and he went 30-26 as a starter. In a regular season ranking, I would have Lillard over Curry. Curry's best case would have to come from the postseason, where the Warriors have continued to underperform. They were favorites against Sacramento and got taken to 7 games and the offense was not as good as one may have expected against the worst playoff defense in the league - 118 DRTG, GSW put up a 113 ORTG on the series. Golden State entered Round 2 as favorites again and are now down 3-1. And I'm not so sure Steph has clearly outplayed LeBron in this series (obviously Davis has outplayed both of them, leaving this as the competition for 2nd best player).

Curry: 25/6/8, 55% TS%
LeBron: 23/9/5, 54% TS%

The box score metrics are pretty similar - beyond that, Steph's offensive impact has clearly been beyond LeBron's while LeBron's defense has been on another level. Given that LeBron's a 38-year-old with an injured foot who could be playing much better, Steph failing to clearly outplay him thus far in my eyes has been an underperformance in a Warriors season defined by underperformances. Of course, the season isn't over yet so we'll see if things change at all.

Booker had the worst regular season here which makes his placement tricky. He's obviously been immense in the postseason but probably needs a Finals berth at minimum for me to have him on my ballot because of the other stars with much superior regular seasons and strong postseasons themselves.

[OhayoKD]

So with 1st round in the books, some thoughts:

[...]

When I think about the big'un, POY, I feel like I'm likely down to 7 top contenders based on the teams left:

Jokic
Embiid
Butler
Tatum
AD
Curry
Booker

It's certainly possible that someone else shining from those 7 teams (Jaylen, LeBron, Dray, KD, etc) re-shapes the dynamic within that team, but I think it's unlikely that someone already eliminated will grab one of the 5 slots.

Also, only team left with no representation here is the Knicks. No insult intended, just think this is more about a collective team than it is about any one player.

Looking back as I'm now forming my thoughts halfway into the second round, I think this is a sound list of ballot contenders.

Current order that I'm thinking about as things stand & for me to build off of later

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Embiid
5. Davis
6. Antetokounmpo
7. Curry
8. Booker

Jokic at #1 feels pretty solid right now. Had the best regular season IMO, on the #1 seed, and has had a much stronger postseason than the other top MVP contenders (Embiid, Giannis).

Embiid had the 2nd best regular season behind Jokic, but both Butler & Tatum are having better postseasons after strong regular seasons impact-wise. Tatum also has a significant advantage in availability - 448 minutes over Embiid. Obviously, Tatum and Embiid are playing in a series against one another right now, which could affect the margins, but as it stands the 76ers have won two games in which Harden was the single biggest reason for the win.

Transcendent postseason from AD on the defensive end right now. He's been the best player for a Lakers team that beat the Grizzlies in 6 and are up 3-1 on the Warriors, both series they entered as underdogs (+140 and +130 respectively). I haven't seen a better playoff run from an individual defender in the modern NBA, and it isn't just the playoffs - he should've made the All-Defense 2nd team IMO. Looking ahead, the Lakers have a real shot at being the 2nd team ever ('95 rockets) to win a chip as the underdogs in every series they played. And AD is the driving force of that.

Elite regular season for Giannis (albeit below his standards) & a virtually nonexistent postseason. Not really any point putting him here because there's nothing that'll put him in the top 5, but this is where I think I'd have him if the season ended today.

I'm relatively low on Curry's regular season (just like last year). The Warriors underperformed and he went 30-26 as a starter. In a regular season ranking, I would have Lillard over Curry. Curry's best case would have to come from the postseason, where the Warriors have continued to underperform. They were favorites against Sacramento and got taken to 7 games and the offense was not as good as one may have expected against the worst playoff defense in the league - 118 DRTG, GSW put up a 113 ORTG on the series. Golden State entered Round 2 as favorites again and are now down 3-1. And I'm not so sure Steph has clearly outplayed LeBron in this series (obviously Davis has outplayed both of them, leaving this as the competition for 2nd best player).

Curry: 25/6/8, 55% TS%
LeBron: 23/9/5, 54% TS%

The box score metrics are pretty similar - beyond that, Steph's offensive impact has clearly been beyond LeBron's while LeBron's defense has been on another level. Given that LeBron's a 38-year-old with an injured foot who could be playing much better, Steph failing to clearly outplay him thus far in my eyes has been an underperformance in a Warriors season defined by underperformances. Of course, the season isn't over yet so we'll see if things change at all.

Booker had the worst regular season here which makes his placement tricky. He's obviously been immense in the postseason but probably needs a Finals berth at minimum for me to have him on my ballot because of the other stars with much superior regular seasons and strong postseasons themselves.

Honestly I think we need to be harsher on Steph here. Like yeah, AD is amazing, but the Warriors are also great defensively. They were -7 vs the kings and, at least in the postseason, have mainly been a defensive dynasty. Honestly even if they come back from 3-1, dropping 3 games to the Lakers as you are arguably outplayed by Lebron carrying a typically season-ending injury and twice as many career minutes on his body is kind of inexusable. They probably underperformed vs Sacremento and they're absolutely underperforming vs the Lakers.

I'm fine humoring "steph best guard" talk because at least there, we aren't seeing those guards side by side with steph. But lebron is playing in the same context of steph, and at least has an argument of being better over the course of the rs(lebron basically swept impact stuff fwiw) and comparable while injured in the postseason(curry is creating more, but as always the box-score does not reflect what he offers verbally as a dray equivalent).

Simply put, if Steph is really the best offensive player of this era, the Warriors should be dominating.

As for bitw consideration, winning this series is the bare minimum. Otherwise, I'll be going with Jokic, Butler, or Embid

[parsnips33]

So with 1st round in the books, some thoughts:

[...]

When I think about the big'un, POY, I feel like I'm likely down to 7 top contenders based on the teams left:

Jokic
Embiid
Butler
Tatum
AD
Curry
Booker

It's certainly possible that someone else shining from those 7 teams (Jaylen, LeBron, Dray, KD, etc) re-shapes the dynamic within that team, but I think it's unlikely that someone already eliminated will grab one of the 5 slots.

Also, only team left with no representation here is the Knicks. No insult intended, just think this is more about a collective team than it is about any one player.

Looking back as I'm now forming my thoughts halfway into the second round, I think this is a sound list of ballot contenders.

Current order that I'm thinking about as things stand & for me to build off of later

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Embiid
5. Davis
6. Antetokounmpo
7. Curry
8. Booker

Jokic at #1 feels pretty solid right now. Had the best regular season IMO, on the #1 seed, and has had a much stronger postseason than the other top MVP contenders (Embiid, Giannis).

Embiid had the 2nd best regular season behind Jokic, but both Butler & Tatum are having better postseasons after strong regular seasons impact-wise. Tatum also has a significant advantage in availability - 448 minutes over Embiid. Obviously, Tatum and Embiid are playing in a series against one another right now, which could affect the margins, but as it stands the 76ers have won two games in which Harden was the single biggest reason for the win.

Transcendent postseason from AD on the defensive end right now. He's been the best player for a Lakers team that beat the Grizzlies in 6 and are up 3-1 on the Warriors, both series they entered as underdogs (+140 and +130 respectively). I haven't seen a better playoff run from an individual defender in the modern NBA, and it isn't just the playoffs - he should've made the All-Defense 2nd team IMO. Looking ahead, the Lakers have a real shot at being the 2nd team ever ('95 rockets) to win a chip as the underdogs in every series they played. And AD is the driving force of that.

Elite regular season for Giannis (albeit below his standards) & a virtually nonexistent postseason. Not really any point putting him here because there's nothing that'll put him in the top 5, but this is where I think I'd have him if the season ended today.

I'm relatively low on Curry's regular season (just like last year). The Warriors underperformed and he went 30-26 as a starter. In a regular season ranking, I would have Lillard over Curry. Curry's best case would have to come from the postseason, where the Warriors have continued to underperform. They were favorites against Sacramento and got taken to 7 games and the offense was not as good as one may have expected against the worst playoff defense in the league - 118 DRTG, GSW put up a 113 ORTG on the series. Golden State entered Round 2 as favorites again and are now down 3-1. And I'm not so sure Steph has clearly outplayed LeBron in this series (obviously Davis has outplayed both of them, leaving this as the competition for 2nd best player).

Curry: 25/6/8, 55% TS%
LeBron: 23/9/5, 54% TS%

The box score metrics are pretty similar - beyond that, Steph's offensive impact has clearly been beyond LeBron's while LeBron's defense has been on another level. Given that LeBron's a 38-year-old with an injured foot who could be playing much better, Steph failing to clearly outplay him thus far in my eyes has been an underperformance in a Warriors season defined by underperformances. Of course, the season isn't over yet so we'll see if things change at all.

Booker had the worst regular season here which makes his placement tricky. He's obviously been immense in the postseason but probably needs a Finals berth at minimum for me to have him on my ballot because of the other stars with much superior regular seasons and strong postseasons themselves.

Honestly I think we need to be harsher on Steph here. Like yeah, AD is amazing, but the Warriors are also great defensively. They were -7 vs the kings and, at least in the postseason, have mainly been a defensive dynasty. Honestly even if they come back from 3-1, dropping 3 games to the Lakers as you are arguably outplayed by Lebron carrying a typically season-ending injury and twice as many career minutes on his body is kind of inexusable. They probably underperformed vs Sacremento and they're absolutely underperforming vs the Lakers.

I'm fine humoring "steph best guard" talk because at least there, we aren't seeing those guards side by side with steph. But lebron is playing in the same context of steph, and at least has an argument of being better over the course of the rs(lebron basically swept impact stuff fwiw) and comparable while injured in the postseason(curry is creating more, but as always the box-score does not reflect what he offers verbally as a dray equivalent).

Simply put, if Steph is really the best offensive player of this era, the Warriors should be dominating.

As for bitw consideration, winning this series is the bare minimum. Otherwise, I'll be going with Jokic, Butler, or Embid

Do you actually think Lebron has been better than Steph in this series? I get the slashlines look similar but it certainly doesn't look that way from an eye test perspective IMO

[OhayoKD]

Looking back as I'm now forming my thoughts halfway into the second round, I think this is a sound list of ballot contenders.

Current order that I'm thinking about as things stand & for me to build off of later

1. Jokic
2. Butler
3. Tatum
4. Embiid
5. Davis
6. Antetokounmpo
7. Curry
8. Booker

Jokic at #1 feels pretty solid right now. Had the best regular season IMO, on the #1 seed, and has had a much stronger postseason than the other top MVP contenders (Embiid, Giannis).

Embiid had the 2nd best regular season behind Jokic, but both Butler & Tatum are having better postseasons after strong regular seasons impact-wise. Tatum also has a significant advantage in availability - 448 minutes over Embiid. Obviously, Tatum and Embiid are playing in a series against one another right now, which could affect the margins, but as it stands the 76ers have won two games in which Harden was the single biggest reason for the win.

Transcendent postseason from AD on the defensive end right now. He's been the best player for a Lakers team that beat the Grizzlies in 6 and are up 3-1 on the Warriors, both series they entered as underdogs (+140 and +130 respectively). I haven't seen a better playoff run from an individual defender in the modern NBA, and it isn't just the playoffs - he should've made the All-Defense 2nd team IMO. Looking ahead, the Lakers have a real shot at being the 2nd team ever ('95 rockets) to win a chip as the underdogs in every series they played. And AD is the driving force of that.

Elite regular season for Giannis (albeit below his standards) & a virtually nonexistent postseason. Not really any point putting him here because there's nothing that'll put him in the top 5, but this is where I think I'd have him if the season ended today.

I'm relatively low on Curry's regular season (just like last year). The Warriors underperformed and he went 30-26 as a starter. In a regular season ranking, I would have Lillard over Curry. Curry's best case would have to come from the postseason, where the Warriors have continued to underperform. They were favorites against Sacramento and got taken to 7 games and the offense was not as good as one may have expected against the worst playoff defense in the league - 118 DRTG, GSW put up a 113 ORTG on the series. Golden State entered Round 2 as favorites again and are now down 3-1. And I'm not so sure Steph has clearly outplayed LeBron in this series (obviously Davis has outplayed both of them, leaving this as the competition for 2nd best player).

Curry: 25/6/8, 55% TS%
LeBron: 23/9/5, 54% TS%

The box score metrics are pretty similar - beyond that, Steph's offensive impact has clearly been beyond LeBron's while LeBron's defense has been on another level. Given that LeBron's a 38-year-old with an injured foot who could be playing much better, Steph failing to clearly outplay him thus far in my eyes has been an underperformance in a Warriors season defined by underperformances. Of course, the season isn't over yet so we'll see if things change at all.

Booker had the worst regular season here which makes his placement tricky. He's obviously been immense in the postseason but probably needs a Finals berth at minimum for me to have him on my ballot because of the other stars with much superior regular seasons and strong postseasons themselves.

Honestly I think we need to be harsher on Steph here. Like yeah, AD is amazing, but the Warriors are also great defensively. They were -7 vs the kings and, at least in the postseason, have mainly been a defensive dynasty. Honestly even if they come back from 3-1, dropping 3 games to the Lakers as you are arguably outplayed by Lebron carrying a typically season-ending injury and twice as many career minutes on his body is kind of inexusable. They probably underperformed vs Sacremento and they're absolutely underperforming vs the Lakers.

I'm fine humoring "steph best guard" talk because at least there, we aren't seeing those guards side by side with steph. But lebron is playing in the same context of steph, and at least has an argument of being better over the course of the rs(lebron basically swept impact stuff fwiw) and comparable while injured in the postseason(curry is creating more, but as always the box-score does not reflect what he offers verbally as a dray equivalent).

Simply put, if Steph is really the best offensive player of this era, the Warriors should be dominating.

As for bitw consideration, winning this series is the bare minimum. Otherwise, I'll be going with Jokic, Butler, or Embid

Do you actually think Lebron has been better than Steph in this series? I get the slashlines look similar but it certainly doesn't look that way from an eye test perspective IMO

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

[MyUniBroDavis]

Honestly I think we need to be harsher on Steph here. Like yeah, AD is amazing, but the Warriors are also great defensively. They were -7 vs the kings and, at least in the postseason, have mainly been a defensive dynasty. Honestly even if they come back from 3-1, dropping 3 games to the Lakers as you are arguably outplayed by Lebron carrying a typically season-ending injury and twice as many career minutes on his body is kind of inexusable. They probably underperformed vs Sacremento and they're absolutely underperforming vs the Lakers.

I'm fine humoring "steph best guard" talk because at least there, we aren't seeing those guards side by side with steph. But lebron is playing in the same context of steph, and at least has an argument of being better over the course of the rs(lebron basically swept impact stuff fwiw) and comparable while injured in the postseason(curry is creating more, but as always the box-score does not reflect what he offers verbally as a dray equivalent).

Simply put, if Steph is really the best offensive player of this era, the Warriors should be dominating.

As for bitw consideration, winning this series is the bare minimum. Otherwise, I'll be going with Jokic, Butler, or Embid

Do you actually think Lebron has been better than Steph in this series? I get the slashlines look similar but it certainly doesn't look that way from an eye test perspective IMO

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

[OhayoKD]

Do you actually think Lebron has been better than Steph in this series? I get the slashlines look similar but it certainly doesn't look that way from an eye test perspective IMO

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

I had Lebron as better in game 2, or at least he was on pace for a better game before being benched due to garbage time

Fair enough on game 4

[MyUniBroDavis]

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

I had Lebron as better in game 2, or at least he was on pace for a better game before being benched due to garbage time

Fair enough on game 4

Hard to give him game 2 in a game he lost by 30 and Steph played really well anyways lol

[jalengreen]

Do you actually think Lebron has been better than Steph in this series? I get the slashlines look similar but it certainly doesn't look that way from an eye test perspective IMO

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

I thought he made some mistakes, like the late foul on LeBron. That was unnecessary

Anyways, if a player does everything perfectly on defense but still gives up points because of physical limitations, that's still a - to my evaluation of their defense.

Also i dont think AD vs. Curry (or LeBron) has been that close ngl

[MyUniBroDavis]

depends what you think of him defensively and how much you think lebron is creating(and whatever credit he warrants for the aforementioned intangibles). TBH, I was watching the mario movie after I thought game 4 was over, so maybe that game swung things. first 3 games I think you can definitely argue for Lebron overall. Would agree steph has been better on offense. It at least feels like the Lakers are doing more to stop him than vice versa

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

I thought he made some mistakes, like the late foul on LeBron. That was unnecessary

Anyways, if a player does everything perfectly on defense but still gives up points because of physical limitations, that's still a - to my evaluation of their defense.

Also i dont think AD vs. Curry (or LeBron) has been that close ngl

It’s more so that AD was pretty bad in game 2, and game 4 is debatable probably with his second half compared to currys

I didn’t think currys defense that bad, Lonnie was hitting some great shots.

I’d say AD was for sure the best in g1 and 3, the worst in g2, and g4 is where i see arguments for both but would probably pick Curry overall

I’d say AD was better overall because he was more definitively better in the games he was best at I think? I don’t think currys had a bad series at all though, although some people seem to think so

[MyUniBroDavis]

If the buha article is right lebrons playoff mode has a playoff mode that would be funny

[jalengreen]

I wouldn’t say brins been better than curry

Game 1: AD/Curry/Bron
Game 2: Curry/Bron/AD
Game 3: AD/Bron/Curry
Game 4: Curry/AD/Bron

Bron was really bad on defense in game 4 till the fourth quarter iirc

I would probably say AD over Curry, I get the argument for Curry though

For g4 Curry got scored in a ton at the end but I didn’t think he was messing up on D lol

I thought he made some mistakes, like the late foul on LeBron. That was unnecessary

Anyways, if a player does everything perfectly on defense but still gives up points because of physical limitations, that's still a - to my evaluation of their defense.

Also i dont think AD vs. Curry (or LeBron) has been that close ngl

It’s more so that AD was pretty bad in game 2, and game 4 is debatable probably with his second half compared to currys

I didn’t think currys defense that bad, Lonnie was hitting some great shots.

I’d say AD was for sure the best in g1 and 3, the worst in g2, and g4 is where i see arguments for both but would probably pick Curry overall

I’d say AD was better overall because he was more definitively better in the games he was best at I think? I don’t think currys had a bad series at all though, although some people seem to think so

Certainly wouldn't call it a bad series. Don't think that's possible when you have had 0 bad games. He's been fairly consistent IMO - hasn't had any exceptional games other than maybe G2, mostly just solid to good performances

[iggymcfrack]

POY check-in

1. Jokic (huge lead, can't imagine him losing it unless he got embarrassed head-to-head in the Finals against Embiid or Jimmy)

(big gap)

2. Embiid (seemed like he was losing ground, but has solidified his spot with the last couple games against the Celtics)
3. Butler (has played amazing all playoffs, but probably has to make the Finals to rise any further)

4. Tatum (still pretty safe in his spot for now, could end up getting passed for 4th, but can't see him finishing any lower than 5th)

5. Giannis (narrowly holding on)
6. AD (defensive force all through the playoffs, finally put 2 good offensive games in a row together, is probably a big performance in a close out game away from breaking through to the top 5)

7. Booker (has had a fantastic playoffs, but really has to lead the Suns back from down 3-2 to have a realistic chance at rising any higher)

Don't see anyone else that's realistically in striking distance. Curry was outside the top 10 in the regular season, he's been unimpressive in the playoffs, and his team's almost eliminated. Ditto all 3 for Durant. LeBron's in the same situation except the Lakers are still doing well, but even if they win, it's going to be more about Davis. I have a hard time imagining him going prime God mode to the level it would require for serious top 5 consideration. If I were to keep going to try to fill out the top 10, I'd probably have guys like Luka, SGA, and Dame that were eliminated already over anyone else who's still in.

[Doctor MJ]

Curry was outside the top 10 in the regular season, he's been unimpressive in the playoffs, and his team's almost eliminated.

Hmm. Okay so first to be clear:

I'm with you that Curry needs to rise up the charts to make my Top 5, and that if the Warriors lose this series, good chance he won't make it.

But when you say he's been "unimpressive" in the playoffs, let's consider some things:

1. Curry's been the lead scorer in both series he's played in.
2. Curry's scored more against the Lakers than any of their other opponents.
3. Of major scorers in these series, only AD has TS% bragging rights, and of course AD is a big getting his shots differently than the perimeter guys.
4. AD has been the most impressive defensive player in the playoffs, and the Warriors are doing way better against AD's Lakers than the Grizzlies did.
5. Right now if we look at the leaderboard for players with the most positive +/- games in the playoffs, here's what it looks like sorted first by the most positive +/- games, followed by the least number of actual wins:

1. NIkola Jokic 9 positive, 7 wins
2. Steph Curry 8 positive, 5 wins
3. Jaylen Brown 8 positive, 6 wins
4. Aaron Gordon 8 positive, 7 wins
(tie) Jamal Murray 8 positive, 7 wins
(tie) Michael Porter 8 positive, 7 wins
(tie) Austin Reaves 8 positive, 7 wins

All this to say that if your perception is that Curry's been utterly blah in the playoffs, you need to look more closely and make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

[Doctor MJ]

ftr I'm holding off on 2nd round updates for my own opinions until we reach some series ends, but definitely the stars of the 4 teams leading their series (Jokic, Embiid, Butler, AD) are looking really good right now.

[Colbinii]

Calling Curry unimpressive is quite the statement. I assume we are talking about Seth Curry here?

I don't think I have ever seen a player post 30/5/6, On-Court +4.9 Per 100 and On/Off +22.9, 6.1 OBPM, Positive +/- in 6/7 first round series games and is only -2 over 4 games in round 2 and is somehow unimpressive.

[jalengreen]

Calling Curry unimpressive is quite the statement. I assume we are talking about Seth Curry here?

I don't think I have ever seen a player post 30/5/6, On-Court +4.9 Per 100 and On/Off +22.9, 6.1 OBPM, Positive +/- in 6/7 first round series games and is only -2 over 4 games in round 2 and is somehow unimpressive.

Pretty specific criteria eh

[Colbinii]

Calling Curry unimpressive is quite the statement. I assume we are talking about Seth Curry here?

I don't think I have ever seen a player post 30/5/6, On-Court +4.9 Per 100 and On/Off +22.9, 6.1 OBPM, Positive +/- in 6/7 first round series games and is only -2 over 4 games in round 2 and is somehow unimpressive.

Pretty specific criteria eh

Yeah--great box-score and +/- is quite specific!

[jalengreen]

Calling Curry unimpressive is quite the statement. I assume we are talking about Seth Curry here?

I don't think I have ever seen a player post 30/5/6, On-Court +4.9 Per 100 and On/Off +22.9, 6.1 OBPM, Positive +/- in 6/7 first round series games and is only -2 over 4 games in round 2 and is somehow unimpressive.

Pretty specific criteria eh

Yeah--great box-score and +/- is quite specific!

Must've read a different comment

[LukaTheGOAT]

Not to take away from Curry, but I have a message talking to a friend about how I expected Curry to dominate against Sacramento because they simply don't have the personnel to really slow him down. Sacramento's defense wasn't good this year relative to league average, and going up against not the most switchable defenders ever, along with a team lacking rim-protection, just seemed to me like one Steph should dominate. To Curry's credit, he did just that.

However, I think perhaps it is fair to be underwhelmed by you have seen of Curry depending on your philosophy. Overall, I think Curry's gravity is a real thing, but perhaps you would like Curry to so far have shot better from 2 against LAL (along with the FT line), as an indicator of resilience/stability. Curry's on/off is still tremendous this PS, which perhaps point to the idea that we once again need to revisit at just HOW incredible his gravity is (or perhaps we should more so assume it is a small sample). Curry hasn't had the most offensive help to be honest.

To be Steph definitely could be somewhere in the MVP territory as a player. But I never really got the idea that 2022 Steph or current Steph was at the peak of his powers in terms of PS. The numbers don't really back this up, etc.