Should James Harden have more all nba selections than Stephen Curry?

[NBA4Lyfe]

Not a superstar like Curry so no.

yea that superstar really looked great the year klay was out huh, curry would be mike bibby/trae young if he wasnt surrounded by elite 2 way wings his entire prime

He played 5 games and they then tanked the season.

As has been said, Curry has usually murdered Harden in the play-offs which counts in regard to people's perceptions, particularly the 2019 WCF series when he/GSW beat Houston with the elite wings injured or absent. The other thing is that people hated Moreyball, spamming for 3 FTs might be the most efficient method of scoring but that isn't the same as it being enjoyable to watch, even apart from having been rather well proven not to be as effective in the play-offs, which again feeds back into how it is perceived by those who vote for the regular season award. Curry usually tries fairly hard to actually make his 3 point shots, and Curry also has the only ever unanimous MVP award, a level never reached by Harden.

But have it your way, if you want to call Harden the superior regular season player be my guest, I will take the 4 titles. I do think Harden is a great PG btw and recent NBA history might have been very different if OKC hadn't been too cheap to keep him alongside Durant.

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401161571

curry could have come back sooner, but the warriors were tanking. He came back still late in the season and still got destroyed without klay

[NBA4Lyfe]

:violin:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html

like i said harden has had more mvp level seasons than curry

[DonaldSanders]

:violin:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html

like i said harden has had more mvp level seasons than curry

Get off bball ref and watch a game

[Marrrcuss]

Who knows. Same reason Harden lead the NBA with 11 assists per game but he IS NOT a point guard.
When Steph goes over 10 assists, we lose our minds and say we just witnessed greatness from "The GOAT point guard" who rarely even leads his team in assists.

There just something weird between those two and how the media and fans see them.

[NBA4Lyfe]

Who knows. Same reason Harden lead the NBA with 11 assists per game but he IS NOT a point guard.
When Steph goes over 10 assists, we lose our minds and say we just witnessed greatness from "The GOAT point guard" who rarely even leads his team in assists.

There just something weird between those two and how the media and fans see them.

https://andscape.com/features/light-skinned-vs-dark-skinned/

michael eric dyson wrote an article on it years ago on espn

“James Harden doesn’t stand a chance to win the MVP,” a college professor on the West Coast proclaimed in his class when I visited his school in 2015, referring to Curry’s closest competitor for the award. “He’s too dark and ‘too black.’

[Marrrcuss]

Who knows. Same reason Harden lead the NBA with 11 assists per game but he IS NOT a point guard.
When Steph goes over 10 assists, we lose our minds and say we just witnessed greatness from "The GOAT point guard" who rarely even leads his team in assists.

There just something weird between those two and how the media and fans see them.

https://andscape.com/features/light-skinned-vs-dark-skinned/

michael eric dyson wrote an article on it years ago on espn

“James Harden doesn’t stand a chance to win the MVP,” a college professor on the West Coast proclaimed in his class when I visited his school in 2015, referring to Curry’s closest competitor for the award. “He’s too dark and ‘too black.’

I will say i hate his beard and all those big azz ZZ Top looking beards the bros wear (im a bro, lol). Shyt looks stupid to me but its his trade mark.
As far as Steph, he does have an Obama-like, more acceptable look for the general public, lolol. You'll be in bball boards and DUDES will talk about his looks. Weirds me out, but wuteva, lol

[NBA4Lyfe]

and why has harden not made all nba the past 3 years.. collusion to make sure curry finishes with more all nba selections from the only other guard from the 2009 draft. Cant have harden lapping curry in awards. Harden despite starting his first 3 years on the bench has already amassed more career win shares, higher career mvp share rate, a higher career box plus minus, a higher career vorp, and a higer career win shares per 48 than stephen curry. The media voters who are stephen curry stans can not affect basketball reference, but they can affect the accolades being given out. I always believed the voters never wanted harden to win his 2nd mvp because they didnt want james to been seen in the same light as stephen curry

the past 3 seasons from nba.com's website harden has finished in the top 10 in total effiency and has not made an all nba team, collusion among nba voters to protect the golden one. Me thinks yes

And do not forget Harden amassed a grand total of zero rings.

How many all nba teams did kg make when he toiling away in Minnesota despite not winning a ring. What about Steve Nash who won 2 mvps( almost 3). The ring argument against harden was always a crutch because it defies logic that someone with hardens stats didn’t make all nba or the all star team

[CptCrunch]

Curry is largely a product of circumstances and collusion.

[DonaldSanders]

Keep the salty takes coming, I'm enjoying it

[Lockdown504090]

Harden has very glaring weaknesses that limit postseason impact….. they shouldn’t matter when it comes to the regular season. They let Rudy keep winning dpoy when numerous guys were better. I think most people would have selected him more in hindsight

[NBA4Lyfe]

Curry is largely a product of circumstances and collusion.

i never wanted to think that

but curry blew up the same year adam silver became commishner

i think adam silver in 2014 chose curry as his face for the league, as david stern had mj as his face

the problem that arose was that unlike with jordan in his draft class another guard from currys draft class is right there with curry when it came to scoring and advanced stats like box plus minus, epm, raptor, and vorp

i firmly believe that the league for 3 seperate offseasons wanted to slow hardens insane scoring tragectory down by putting in rules and altering the game because in just 8 seasons of play in houston Harden was pretty much neck and neck with an atg like hakeem (a 17 year vet) in all time win shares, thats how much and how quickly harden was pilling up the points, the league had to nerf harden to help him stay in range with curry box score wise. Lets also keep in mind curry recently only just surpassed 20k points, and curry is labeled the greatest shooter ever( which is true) but harden is more than likely gonna finish 2nd all-time in makes as well

This is ultimately why i believe harden does NOT get the same calls in the playoffs that he does in the regular season. The league has been hellbent on preventing harden from getting a ring especially when he came close in 2018, To be fair harden has more than enough blame in a lot of those playoff losses that was his fault, but i never truly believed that there was a conspiracy againist harden until i watched game 6 and game 7 of that 2018 wcf

[NBA4Lyfe]

Harden has very glaring weaknesses that limit postseason impact….. they shouldn’t matter when it comes to the regular season. They let Rudy keep winning dpoy when numerous guys were better. I think most people would have selected him more in hindsight

rudy was a monster defensively when he was in utah. The eye test may not have matched that when rudy went up againist guards like curry and harden in the playoffs.. But those 2 guys are atg players. Rudy was pretty dominant againist the rest of the league in his utah days. Follow andy bailey on twitter he has great stats and one of the very known public rudy gobert fans, rudy actaully deserved a few more dpoy awards

[Lockdown504090]

Harden has very glaring weaknesses that limit postseason impact….. they shouldn’t matter when it comes to the regular season. They let Rudy keep winning dpoy when numerous guys were better. I think most people would have selected him more in hindsight

rudy was a monster defensively when he was in utah. The eye test may not have matched that when rudy went up againist guards like curry and harden in the playoffs.. But those 2 guys are atg players. Rudy was pretty dominant againist the rest of the league in his utah days. Follow andy bailey on twitter he has great stats and one of the very known public rudy gobert fans, rudy actaully deserved a few more dpoy awards

thats my point. rudy and harden i think are equally dominant in the rs, but the opinion of them as a whole is less because of playoffs. only harden was affected by that perception in awards. you get what im saying?

[SpreeS]

Cry me a river

[michaelm]

yea that superstar really looked great the year klay was out huh, curry would be mike bibby/trae young if he wasnt surrounded by elite 2 way wings his entire prime

He played 5 games and they then tanked the season.

As has been said, Curry has usually murdered Harden in the play-offs which counts in regard to people's perceptions, particularly the 2019 WCF series when he/GSW beat Houston with the elite wings injured or absent. The other thing is that people hated Moreyball, spamming for 3 FTs might be the most efficient method of scoring but that isn't the same as it being enjoyable to watch, even apart from having been rather well proven not to be as effective in the play-offs, which again feeds back into how it is perceived by those who vote for the regular season award. Curry usually tries fairly hard to actually make his 3 point shots, and Curry also has the only ever unanimous MVP award, a level never reached by Harden.

But have it your way, if you want to call Harden the superior regular season player be my guest, I will take the 4 titles. I do think Harden is a great PG btw and recent NBA history might have been very different if OKC hadn't been too cheap to keep him alongside Durant.

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401161571

curry could have come back sooner, but the warriors were tanking. He came back still late in the season and still got destroyed without klay

Which part of him playing only 5 games that season and GSW deciding to tank the season did you not understand ?.

[NBA4Lyfe]

He played 5 games and they then tanked the season.

As has been said, Curry has usually murdered Harden in the play-offs which counts in regard to people's perceptions, particularly the 2019 WCF series when he/GSW beat Houston with the elite wings injured or absent. The other thing is that people hated Moreyball, spamming for 3 FTs might be the most efficient method of scoring but that isn't the same as it being enjoyable to watch, even apart from having been rather well proven not to be as effective in the play-offs, which again feeds back into how it is perceived by those who vote for the regular season award. Curry usually tries fairly hard to actually make his 3 point shots, and Curry also has the only ever unanimous MVP award, a level never reached by Harden.

But have it your way, if you want to call Harden the superior regular season player be my guest, I will take the 4 titles. I do think Harden is a great PG btw and recent NBA history might have been very different if OKC hadn't been too cheap to keep him alongside Durant.

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401161571

curry could have come back sooner, but the warriors were tanking. He came back still late in the season and still got destroyed without klay

Which part of him playing only 5 games that season and GSW deciding to tank the season did you not understand ?.

i remmeber that "injury" quite well the timeline to return was 4-6 weeks and curry stalled out and prolonged the injury because the warriors that year were getting blown out in every game

[michaelm]

https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401161571

curry could have come back sooner, but the warriors were tanking. He came back still late in the season and still got destroyed without klay

Which part of him playing only 5 games that season and GSW deciding to tank the season did you not understand ?.

i remmeber that "injury" quite well the timeline to return was 4-6 weeks and curry stalled out and prolonged the injury because the warriors that year were getting blown out in every game

Yes, they tanked as I said, partly to avoid the repeater tax, and were swapping G- league players in and out of 2 way contracts to field a team.

And yes they weren’t very good without Curry and Thompson and only a few games from Looney who also played injured in the 2019 finals. Iirc from the team which made the 2019 finals they only had Lee, who was a bench player for that team, and Green for much of the season. Your point is ?.

[durden_tyler]

Harden has not won anything yet so he’s not at the level of Steph.

[Impuniti]

Isn't it easier to talk to a shrink rather than create a topic on here and just cry for 4 pages straight?

[ken6199]

harden chokes in the playoffs so nobody takes his stats seriously. It's all seen as empty numbers.

then that makes the NBA an illegitimate league lol, playoffs have no bearing on the regular season end of season awards, if it did luka wouldnt make all nba this year like harden didnt in 2016 lol

thats like ignoring the great shohei ohtani in baseball because his team finishes with the worst record in baseball every year. The nba is pathetic having to protect stephen curry like this

Yep, the NBA's illegitimate. So, I don't expect you to be around here anymore since we've come to the conclusion here. Unless of course you don't have any problems being a fan of an illegitimate league.

LIke it or not, voters are influenced by what they see in the playoffs. Kyrie Irving gets alot of respect for his finals shot. Had that never happened, league perception of him as a player would be very very different. You can't mind control people. Their opinion of someone will have a lot of influences from lots of reasons. If they see James Harden choke a playoff series, their psychology would force them to be more critical of james harden in future dates, even if they don't mean to do it. I'm not talking about "Oh, lets compare hardens playoffs stats to see if he deserves all NBA" or something direct like that. I'm talking that when they see James Harden's stats, they will just naturally view it from a more critical angle, even if they aren't actually thinking directly of the playoffs.

If you dont like it, and think that makes the league illegitimate, then that's tough on you. Either choose to be a fan of a illegitimate league or do something else with your time. But I guarantee you in an alternate world where James Harden never choked a playoff series and instead won a championship or two, he would have more all NBA selections. As much as you want the All NBA selections to be a purely regular season award, psychology of human beings make it an award that has playoff performance influence baked into it, even if it's not purposeful.

That's the answer, and it has nothing to do with the league protecting steph curry or some crazy conspiracy.

I think this is the right answer here.

As attempted as I am to participate in this decade long debate, I don't think I have much to contribute other than all the stuff that has been repeatedly said over the years between the 2 players. We all have players we like and we don't like, we all have players we believe is better than some others. Stick to your belief if you want, enjoy watching their games, but there isn't that big of a need to convince others that they have to believe the same thing as you do, especially if your belief is based on some imaginary collusion. It's really not that big of a deal. We are really looking at these HOFers who are at the pinnacle of their careers (relatively to where we are in ours, assumingly), I think I am too busy being wow-ed at their games to convince some random folks on a forum to make some endorsement on certain players, and by doing this it has zero impact on their careers whatsoever.

In other words, does the league have some collusion to screw Harden out of his deserved all nba selections? Sure believe all you want but unless you have some memo decrypted from Adam Silver to all the voters to "not vote for Harden" it really is pointless to stick a flag here and claim there is a conspiracy. Compared to that imaginary collusion, what Edrees said above about human perception and psychological effect is actually real, their unconscious self-influence in casting votes based on perception from past playoff performances. Had Harden beaten the Warriors and Cavs in 2015, with the same 2016 regular season stat line, W/L record, and #8 seed, you bet he would've got at least a 3rd team all nba selection. Same applies to this year's all star, all nba, etc etc.

That's what we call opinion, or how opinion is formed. Everyone is free to treat them as opinions instead of facts.