2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[garrick]

I wonder if there's any way to restructure CP3's contract under the agreement that he is going to be a backup and play less minutes due to his age, I would still rather have him here but obviously on a much affordable contract like 10 mil per year or something for another 2 years with a team option for the 3rd year?

I'm torn on Monty but it seems we have gone as far as we have with him and we might need a coach in the mold of a Quinn Snyder or coach Bud someone who gets fired up and kind of get through to our players and be tough when needed?

[Sunlight]

The truth comes here when comparing Booker to superstars:

Kevin Durant has averaged 30.2. points per game in elimination games in his career.
Stephen Curry has averaged 29.2 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Kobe Bryant has averaged 22.3 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Devin Booker has averaged 14.0 points per game in elimination games in his career.

[sunsfan1o1]

I won’t cast judgment on any of the players.
Monty Williams was the reason we lost the finals and blown out the last 2 elimination games.

I’d give all our starters another chance with a real X’s and O’s Coach.

Tell Monty to take Shamet with him. The love of his life

Get rid of Landale and Biyombo.

Get rid of the entire bench and the coaches. Except for Saban Lee. Give him a promotion.

Just terrible roster construction and coaching.

[Son of Ra]

Damn, I’m old enough to remember when a few us were called Ayton haters. This entire board has gone against him. It’s honestly sad. Ayton is a good dude off the court, treats fans with total respect and goes out his way to cheer people up. It sucks that it just hasn’t worked out.

I think if he was drafted on another team, he probably would be close to being out the league. Book, CP3 and Monty’s system was able to hide all his flaws. He’s had all the resources in Phoenix to be successful. I wish him well.


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To be fair who could've known at the time that a guy who answered what his goals in the league were with "To get to that second contract", who was schooled by inferior competition in college when it mattered, had lackluster motivation then already was the inferior choice to a player universally hailed as a generational talent, who had proven himself in a skill, not physicality based environment amongst professional, grown men ever since he was a child?

It's not like it was an obvious choice at all. Yes, my first comment in years, yes, you're right, I'm still salty, haha.

That's when I was basically done watching. After a decade of watching 95% of all our torturous, bottom dweller games, that did me in.

Now with my two least favorite players (Paul, Durant) on the team I'm checking less than I have in the last 30 years since being a fan. And no picks probably means I probably won't for a while either :/

[BobbieL]

It's gonna be interesting to know if we definitely want to trade Ayton this summer.

His value is a bit of a mystery. I think he could be really valuable on some teams and they can see some untapped potential in him.

Ayton
Paul
Payne
Shamet
Ish


Tradingall of them

The tricky part is what value do Paul and Payne have in the new Cba.

Ayton - there will be a market for him I think. Untapped potential

[RaisingArizona]

The truth comes here when comparing Booker to superstars:

Kevin Durant has averaged 30.2. points per game in elimination games in his career.
Stephen Curry has averaged 29.2 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Kobe Bryant has averaged 22.3 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Devin Booker has averaged 14.0 points per game in elimination games in his career.

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

[BobbieL]

The truth comes here when comparing Booker to superstars:

Kevin Durant has averaged 30.2. points per game in elimination games in his career.
Stephen Curry has averaged 29.2 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Kobe Bryant has averaged 22.3 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Devin Booker has averaged 14.0 points per game in elimination games in his career.

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

Yes, Booker in elimination games hasn't been good
But Devin Booker is also not the problem

the problem has been ownership, the general manager and the head coaches

Ishbia has some work to do and it better not involve Zeke

[Book1Nation]

Let’s be real, nobody is trading anything good for DA on a max contract. Nobody other than IND even wanted to pay him last year.

This brings me to plan max cap space in 2024/25.

To PHX: Davis Bertans, Reggie Bullock, future 1st round pick
To DAL: Deandre Ayton

(It works salary wise)

For now we add shooting. Bertans 2nd year is only $5MM guaranteed. Bullock is expiring. Getting a 1st back is big too.

Load up on vet mins and whatever else you have to do this year.

After the season you can cut CP3 and Shamet, both deals are fully non-guaranteed.

Go into next year with only KD/Book and $5 mil Bertans contract.

24/25 free agents: Jaylen Brown, Pascal Siakam, Kristaps Porzingis, Domantas Sabonis, Dejounte Murray, Khris Middleton, Nic Claxton, Kyle Kuzma

KD would have 2 years left on his deal at that point. Get one of those guys above and then try to build around your 3 stars.

Thoughts?

[Slim Charless]

The truth comes here when comparing Booker to superstars:

Kevin Durant has averaged 30.2. points per game in elimination games in his career.
Stephen Curry has averaged 29.2 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Kobe Bryant has averaged 22.3 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Devin Booker has averaged 14.0 points per game in elimination games in his career.

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

Yes, Booker in elimination games hasn't been good
But Devin Booker is also not the problem

the problem has been ownership, the general manager and the head coaches

Ishbia has some work to do and it better not involve Zeke

Or Doc Rivers. I'm worried that after he gets fired on Sunday from Philly that he might slither his way here. He and Zeke I think are close too.

[BobbieL]

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

Yes, Booker in elimination games hasn't been good
But Devin Booker is also not the problem

the problem has been ownership, the general manager and the head coaches

Ishbia has some work to do and it better not involve Zeke

Or Doc Rivers. I'm worried that after he gets fired on Sunday from Philly that he might slither his way here. He and Zeke I think are close too.

Oh dear god no. He would be terrible as well

Lue, Quinn, Nurse, Stott, Hammons

those are my names. Not sure how real Lue would be - but if he is out there...

[Book1Nation]

Yes, Booker in elimination games hasn't been good
But Devin Booker is also not the problem

the problem has been ownership, the general manager and the head coaches

Ishbia has some work to do and it better not involve Zeke

Or Doc Rivers. I'm worried that after he gets fired on Sunday from Philly that he might slither his way here. He and Zeke I think are close too.

Oh dear god no. He would be terrible as well

Lue, Quinn, Nurse, Stott, Hammons

those are my names. Not sure how real Lue would be - but if he is out there...

What about James Borrego? His offense would be a welcome change. Those Charlotte teams could really score.

[sunsfan1o1]

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

Yes, Booker in elimination games hasn't been good
But Devin Booker is also not the problem

the problem has been ownership, the general manager and the head coaches

Ishbia has some work to do and it better not involve Zeke

Or Doc Rivers. I'm worried that after he gets fired on Sunday from Philly that he might slither his way here. He and Zeke I think are close too.

Would still be a MAJOR upgrade

[spanishninja]

The truth comes here when comparing Booker to superstars:

Kevin Durant has averaged 30.2. points per game in elimination games in his career.
Stephen Curry has averaged 29.2 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Kobe Bryant has averaged 22.3 points per game in elimination games in his career.
Devin Booker has averaged 14.0 points per game in elimination games in his career.

There's more than meets the eye there. Booker is being burned out carrying his team and always ends up hobbled and gassed down the stretch of the playoffs. He's got a **** coach and GM. He should play better but that's the context these stats are missing

people are missing the fact that by the time the Suns have gotten to elimination situations, opposing coaches have long figured out Monty and have game narrowed it down to guarding mainly Book. that combined with nobody else able to do anything and him playing hurt, and you have these performances in eliminations.

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[BobbieL]

Good tweet from O'Connoor about what the Suns are up against and what they have to work with. The new CBA is tricky with the max contracts so that seems like that would really not make Kyrie an option

Suns need a better PG - -younger, thats for sure

Paul, Payne and Ish have partial or zero guarantees - again, can they be moved for a larger contract a team wants to unload but they then waive all three players. Also Shamet is signed for only one more year so that could be an option.

Ayton - does he have any value and what can you combine him with to make the team better.
Those five contracts are where I am looking to improve the roster

I think they have the TPMLE and BAE for the exceptions

Read on Twitter

[BobbieL]

Tim McMahon on CP3

Read on Twitter

Just wish I knew how it worked trading his contract before it guarantees

[Book1Nation]

Tim McMahon on CP3

Read on Twitter

Just wish I knew how it worked trading his contract before it guarantees

If this is accurate, would mean only the $15 million or so counts as outgoing (and incoming)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

[Slim Charless]

Tim McMahon on CP3

Read on Twitter

Just wish I knew how it worked trading his contract before it guarantees

If this is accurate, would mean only the $15 million or so counts as outgoing (and incoming)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

They can buy him out I think still. It means that whoever we trade cp3 for its likely gonna be some player another team wants to dump. Which means we'll be taking on more long term money I'd imagine.

With Shamet having only a partial guarantee next season, I'd be somewhat surprised if those 2 aren't packaged together-if we do actually move Chris. Some team can cut alot off their cap for nothing basically

[BobbieL]

Tim McMahon on CP3

Read on Twitter

Just wish I knew how it worked trading his contract before it guarantees

If this is accurate, would mean only the $15 million or so counts as outgoing (and incoming)

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/03/how-non-guaranteed-salaries-will-affect-trades-in-new-cba.html

They can buy him out I think still. It means that whoever we trade cp3 for its likely gonna be some player another team wants to dump. Which means we'll be taking on more long term money I'd imagine.

With Shamet having only a partial guarantee next season, I'd be somewhat surprised if those 2 aren't packaged together-if we do actually move Chris. Some team can cut alot off their cap for nothing basically

this is why I bring up
Paul, Payne and Ish for Rozier - would save the Hornets over $50m in cash over three years...
Paul would be waived and would be a Laker or Clipper before the ink is dry

there might be other players where a team wants to dump long term cash - but Rozier comes to mind as he works numbers wise for Paul and Payne (and possibly Ish to match numbers)

I still see Shamet as having more value in a larger Ayton trade

[lonea]

I won’t cast judgment on any of the players.
Monty Williams was the reason we lost the finals and blown out the last 2 elimination games.

I’d give all our starters another chance with a real X’s and O’s Coach.

Tell Monty to take Shamet with him. The love of his life

Get rid of Landale and Biyombo.

Get rid of the entire bench and the coaches. Except for Saban Lee. Give him a promotion.

Just terrible roster construction and coaching.

LOL Saben lee? That guy sucks.

[irish22022]

Let’s be real, nobody is trading anything good for DA on a max contract. Nobody other than IND even wanted to pay him last year.

This brings me to plan max cap space in 2024/25.

To PHX: Davis Bertans, Reggie Bullock, future 1st round pick
To DAL: Deandre Ayton

(It works salary wise)

For now we add shooting. Bertans 2nd year is only $5MM guaranteed. Bullock is expiring. Getting a 1st back is big too.

Load up on vet mins and whatever else you have to do this year.

After the season you can cut CP3 and Shamet, both deals are fully non-guaranteed.

Go into next year with only KD/Book and $5 mil Bertans contract.

24/25 free agents: Jaylen Brown, Pascal Siakam, Kristaps Porzingis, Domantas Sabonis, Dejounte Murray, Khris Middleton, Nic Claxton, Kyle Kuzma

KD would have 2 years left on his deal at that point. Get one of those guys above and then try to build around your 3 stars.

Thoughts?

Maybe I'm being optimistic but this feels like bottom of the barrel value. The Mavs are gonna pick like 11-14 (unless they catch a top 10 which in that case they lose the pick) this year so this is a back end lottery pick and basically two unplayable assets.