Jokic Making a lot of folks look dumb

[Mickey8]

Within the first minute of this NBA TV postgame video analyzing the Denver series win over the Suns, Brendan Haywood says Jokic may be the best player in the league and Sam Mitchell hits him with a fist bump and a "hello!"

Two former players giving praise.

Watch on YouTube

Haywood always compliments Jokic's game , had him as the MVP of the regular season too. Mitchell as well , always have the high praises for Jokic.

[Adam Stern]

Steph's defense has always been picked on too.
Was he never the best player in the world?

He was on the best team but was never the clear cut best player.

He was as clear cut as Jokic is now.

Agreed.

Steph was never the clear-cut best player because Lebron was still in his prime at the time.

Also agreed.

[Big J]

Still can’t believe that a guy like Lillard was voted top-75 all time over Jokic. AD as well but at least AD has a ring…just like with Shaq in 1996, you didn’t have to be a rocket scientist to see the trajectory this guy was on. Kinda sad he won’t get his due in that pantheon until 2046.

I guess its because Lillard has longer career so far, even though its clear that Lillard is inferior player to Jokic . When its all said and done Jokic will be on that list much higher than him.

Also Lillard beat Jokic in the playoffs that year, so I don't really blame voters for putting him in over Jokic at that point in their careers.

[Infinite Llamas]

Still can’t believe that a guy like Lillard was voted top-75 all time over Jokic. AD as well but at least AD has a ring…just like with Shaq in 1996, you didn’t have to be a rocket scientist to see the trajectory this guy was on. Kinda sad he won’t get his due in that pantheon until 2046.

I guess its because Lillard has longer career so far, even though its clear that Lillard is inferior player to Jokic . When its all said and done Jokic will be on that list much higher than him.

Also Lillard beat Jokic in the playoffs that year, so I don't really blame voters for putting him in over Jokic at that point in their careers.

Denver lost to Portland in 2019 but beat them in the first round the year before the list was released. Add in Jokic’s MVP and there was zero reason to have him higher at the time.

[Big J]

I guess its because Lillard has longer career so far, even though its clear that Lillard is inferior player to Jokic . When its all said and done Jokic will be on that list much higher than him.

Also Lillard beat Jokic in the playoffs that year, so I don't really blame voters for putting him in over Jokic at that point in their careers.

Denver lost to Portland in 2019 but beat them in the first round the year before the list was released. Add in Jokic’s MVP and there was zero reason to have him higher at the time.

Literally nobody was arguing for Jokic's inclusion at the time. This is revisionist history. The snubs everyone was talking about were Dwight and Klay.

[Infinite Llamas]

Also Lillard beat Jokic in the playoffs that year, so I don't really blame voters for putting him in over Jokic at that point in their careers.

Denver lost to Portland in 2019 but beat them in the first round the year before the list was released. Add in Jokic’s MVP and there was zero reason to have him higher at the time.

Literally nobody was arguing for Jokic's inclusion at the time. This is revisionist history. The snubs everyone was talking about were Dwight and Klay.

I was. Shaq hadn’t accomplished that much more than Jokic by ‘96 but they had the foresight to include him back then. Anybody with a brain and eyes could see how brilliant of a player that Jokic was even before he started winning MVP’s.

[Big J]

Denver lost to Portland in 2019 but beat them in the first round the year before the list was released. Add in Jokic’s MVP and there was zero reason to have him higher at the time.

Literally nobody was arguing for Jokic's inclusion at the time. This is revisionist history. The snubs everyone was talking about were Dwight and Klay.

I was. Shaq hadn’t accomplished that much more than Jokic by ‘96 but they had the foresight to include him back then. Anybody with a brain and eyes could see how brilliant of a player that Jokic was even before he started winning MVP’s.

Shaq was absolutely dominant his first few years in the league. It wasn't as obvious with Jokic back then, he had weight issues early in his career before he got into shape.

[Lockdown504090]

Who do the lakers give minutes to for guarding jokic, bamba or Thompson?

[Wolfgang630]

Who do the lakers give minutes to for guarding jokic, bamba or Thompson?

Someone said Bamba is injured

[MrBigShot]

Anyone who has been paying attention the last 5 years knows jokic always shows up in the playoffs.

Right now Jokic, Butler, and Booker are in their own class.

Booker?

Before game 6, he was putting up like 35/8/7 on efficiency better than anyone. Even after his overall performance was nuts, he's the only reason the suns didn't get swept.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Jokic's run this playoffs reminds me of when Dirk demolished everyone on the way to the title.

the demeanor is very similar as well.
Dirk never exulted throughout that run, he was totally focused on the final objective.
I rememeber how he ran out of the court even at the end of game 6, in the finals.

[AleksandarN]

What stat are you using to measure that PnR defense (or defense as a whole)? What about offensive gravity? Somehow Jokic gets credit for winning more in the playoffs when the reality is...

Jokic
18-19 Playoff Net (14 games): +7.0
18-19 Playoff On/Off (14 games): +23.7

19-20 Playoff Net (19 games): -3.5
19-20 Playoff On/Off (19 games): -3.0

20-21 Playoff Net (10 games): -8.4
20-21 Playoff On/Off (10 games): -8.2

21-22 Playoff Net (5 games): -14.4
21-22 Playoff On/Off (5 games): -16.5

22-23 Playoff Net (10 games): +6.9
22-23 Playoff On/Off (10 games): -4.3

Cumulative Playoff Net (58 games): -0.6
Cumulative Playoff On/Off (58 games): +1.8


Embiid
17-18 Playoff Net (8 games): +5.6
17-18 Playoff On/Off (8 games): +6.6

18-18 Playoff Net (11 games): +20.5
18-19 Playoff On/Off (11 games): +41.6

19-20 Playoff Net (4 games): -21.2
19-20 Playoff On/Off (4 games): -32.9

20-21 Playoff Net (11 games): +14.7
20-21 Playoff On/Off (11 games): +19.9

21-22 (10 games): +4.6
21-22 (10 games): +11.3

22-23 Playoff Net (7 games): +4.6
22-23 Playoff On/Off (7 games): +4.5

Cumulative Playoff Net (51): +7.7
Cumulative Playoff On/Off (51): +13.4


The ONLY smudge on Embiid's playoff impact profile was in by far the smallest sample (4 games) and furthermore the only season in which Embiid was forced to play next to another big man in Horford (which everyone knew would not work).

At the end of the day winning is what matters and JoJo does it even better than Joker. Yeah I said it

If Embiid is better at winning than Jokic in the postseason then why hasn’t he won more than Jokic in the postseason? Especially given he has consistently had better supporting casts.

I also don’t think you can say that Embiid has only one bad stain on his postseason career, especially given that he was terrible at the end of the final few games against the Hawks (he was generally quite bad in the series, despite putting up points). He was far more to blame for that humiliation than Simmons.

Really makes you think…

Jokic literally made his only conference finals so far when Murray averaged 30+ a game in a series lmao

Sent from my G3416 using RealGM mobile app

What about Embiid? Oh nevermind

[Sgt Major]

Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true. Why did the PLAYERS pick Embiid by a 2 to 1 margin if this is SO "objectively true"? Why is Embiid ALWAYS the first pick in the All-Star draft as opposed to Jokic (who, I think was the LAST person picked)? Are NBA players - and NBA All-Stars like LeBron, KD and Steph - just idiots who simply aren't "approaching the debate objectively"? Huh?

Yes, they are.

So, why then did they pick Embiid? Racism? Embiid's Twitter game? What is it?

In the 2022 All-Star Game - the first time they used the Elam scoring system in the 4th quarter - on Embiid's team, looking to win the game, who got the ball? Huh? Did they go to Embiid to win the game because they are RACISTS? Huh?

Of course, the other team couldn't go to Jokic, because he was watching the end of that game from the bench. I guess he was benched because - even though he is the greatest player in basketball - they didn't want to WIN THE GAME. Or, maybe the coach of Jokic's team was a racist and Embiid fan who wanted to make sure that Embiid got the glory.

Right?

Ah the best post of all-time right here - imagine being benched during crucial time of an All-Star game.

[BelgradeNugget]

Why are you bumping these old treads guys? Just to enjoy laughing? Because I'm

[ty 4191]

Ah the best post of all-time right here - imagine being benched during crucial time of an All-Star game.

Jokic's ranks all time, career, in the playoffs (Min 2,000 MP):

Offensive Rating: #2 (124) behind only Tristan Thompson
Win Shares Per 48 Minutes: #2 (.239) behind only Michael Jordan
BPM: (#2) (10.4) behind only Michael Jordan
PER: #1 (29.1)

Among all players with 2,000 MP and 4+ 3PA/G (non dunk only/almost only guys):
eFG%: #1 all time (.572)
TS%: #2 all time (.612) just behind Kawhi Leonard
3P%: #1 (.410)

2022-2023 Playoffs compared to all other players in history with 500+ MP ANY playoffs:
WS/48: #5 all time (.320)
BPM: #3 all time (14.2)
PER: #2 all time (32.9)

I found this hilarious as a side note. Assist % (goes back to 1964-1965), Centers, 500+ MP in any playoffs:
Jokic (2023): 44.9%
Jokic (2019: 37.1%
Jokic (2020: 28.6%
Wilt (1967): 23.9%

[slick_watts]

i hope i live to see the day when nba discourse moves past team performance standing in for individual comparisons. 'lillard beat jokic in the playoffs'. a very silly statement. jokic was far superior to lillard in that series.

[sp6r=underrated]

Plus/Minus stats only work in large sample size. Evaluating players primarily on plus/minus using 5-20 game sample sizes is likely to lead to terrible analysis.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The real MVP. Embarrassing people let someone like Perkins race bait and shame them into not voting for Joker.

[Franco]

Call me when he makes it out of the West. I'm not impressed.

So... about that.

[EH15]

Call me when he makes it out of the West. I'm not impressed.

Trash take.