2022-23 RealGM All-Season Awards - Discussion Thread

[MyUniBroDavis]

^^ Curry was better than bron this series, I’d say game 1,2,4,5 were definitively games Curry was better, and bron was better in games 3 and 6.

Context is important though, even outside the injury Curry IS the warriors offense while bron isnt ours the same way at all, and yeah people aren’t gonna wanna hear it but with the reporting that bron has another gear that’s probably something to take into consideration if he starts killing it after this series lol

LeBron's Game 6 was a better game than any game Curry had this series IMO

I think the "another gear" thing is probably mainly just offensive aggression. Which we definitely saw in G6, second half especially. Felt like the most we've seen LeBron drive to the rim in a minute. His finishing is still good

Yeah, I probably agree with that

Brons foot is messed up and we’ll see how it goes from here but healthy bron in the RS > Curry in the RS for me when they played

[jalengreen]

I don't think any currently eliminated players (pre BOS-PHI g7) are likely to make my top 5. I view Giannis, Curry, Davis, and LeBron as comparable at the moment with an edge towards the guys still standing. And then there's Jokic,Tatum,Butler,Embiid probably at the top. It's a mess after Jokic tbh, East guys are hard to gauge.

[SpreeS]

Watch on YouTube

The real gravity which you don’t find in box score

[70sFan]

LeBron averaged 25/9/6 on 60% TS with excellent defense for the Warriors series. I know people said he's too far out to make the top 5, but if he keeps this production up and makes the Finals he has to be in contention at that point... right? (and Davis too obviously)

Excellent defense is a stretch to me, he was bad on D in quite a few games. His overall production is heavily influenced by the last game. Sometimes, it's better to look at each game separately instead of focusing on averages.

He still played very well within a context (age, injury) but without stepping up he's not candidate for top 5 player in the league anymore to me.

[TheGOATRises007]

I think LeBron's defense was good, but excellent is how I'd define AD's defense.

LeBron was caught sleeping a decent amount of times on rolls/cuts and rotated a bit late on 3's at times.

He was better vs the Warriors than vs the Grizzlies though.

[Texas Chuck]

. Sometimes, it's better to look at each game separately instead of focusing on averages.

I think this is the only way to look at a player's performance in the context of a singular series. Obviously over an 82 game season, singular games are largely irrelevant and the averages are far more telling. But the opposite is true when every game matters this much.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I think LeBron's defense was good, but excellent is how I'd define AD's defense.

LeBron was caught sleeping a decent amount of times on rolls/cuts and rotated a bit late on 3's at times.

He was better vs the Warriors than vs the Grizzlies though.

A lot of the late threes were us leaving certain guys open

That’s why you see AD closing out hella late alot

[MyUniBroDavis]

Bron was either really good in D or bad no inbetween lol

It’s pretty obvious as a team that games 2 and 5 were concession games to an extent, game 5 especially we basically stopped doing things tho at worked really well in game 4 and went right back to it in game 6, probably a coaching thing and putting all our marbles in those games.

Healthy bron this year has been clearly top 5 for me, from when he came back from the flu to when he hurt his foot going for the record against OKC he averaged

32/8/7 with no spacing, 61TS, 34 games so 60% of his season.

Particularly there was a stretch without AD he was genuinely playing at an mvp level (18 games). And I do mean even with the field being what it was


BUT that’s different from saying he’s had a top 5 season, because the fact that he missed 27 games matters


In the postseason so far, he’s not been top 5

I agree his playoffs haven’t been incredible, very good considering the defense we’ve faced (the warriors defense clearly was a lot better than it had been in the RS with health and their game planning) but not top 5 level or anything

In terms of guys making it out of the first round, right now the runs so far of

Jokic/Jimmy/Booker/AD/Embiid/Tatum/Brunson/Curry clear

If bron continues at this level he doesn’t have much of an argument for top 5 with his injuries, but if he turns up vs the nuggets or if we get past them in the finals I don’t think it’s a hard case to make

It’s pretty different this time around because brons not really been running the offense, he’s been way more post and off ball and has actually been really effecient outside of his three point shot being gone, although the actual 3 point average is a bit deflated because if he’s bad in a game he’s heinously bad from three, he shot dexent vs the warriors game by game

The main thing is the burst he had this year looks way worse right now but it looked great last game, so we’ll see how this next series goes

Excellent defensively overall is a bit of a stretch but for the most part he’s been quite good, and fwiw the bad games tend to be the concession games or when we’re already down 20 or something

[jalengreen]

I think looking at each game separately looks good for LeBron tbh because he didn’t have any bad games IMO. Since G5 vs Memphis, he’s been consistently somewhere from solid to great

[Doctor MJ]

^^ Curry was better than bron this series, I’d say game 1,2,4,5 were definitively games Curry was better, and bron was better in games 3 and 6.

Context is important though, even outside the injury Curry IS the warriors offense while bron isnt ours the same way at all, and yeah people aren’t gonna wanna hear it but with the reporting that bron has another gear that’s probably something to take into consideration if he starts killing it after this series lol

LeBron's Game 6 was a better game than any game Curry had this series IMO

I think the "another gear" thing is probably mainly just offensive aggression. Which we definitely saw in G6, second half especially. Felt like the most we've seen LeBron drive to the rim in a minute. His finishing is still good

Hmm. So a couple things:

I don't think there's any doubt that savvy veterans like to save their juice for the opportune opportunity, and LeBron's quite adroit in this. So yeah, he can still do a lot of peak-LeBron stuff in bursts.

But I also think we have to keep in mind that the Lakers were WAY more focused on stopping Steph than the Warriors were on stopping LeBron, and Steph was the leading game scorer in each of the last 3 games, while LeBron never led a game in scoring in the entire series.

Scoring isn't everything of course, but I don't think there's any doubt that when you're talking about a game like Game 6, LeBron's scoring is a sizable chunk of what stood out to you.

[jalengreen]

^^ Curry was better than bron this series, I’d say game 1,2,4,5 were definitively games Curry was better, and bron was better in games 3 and 6.

Context is important though, even outside the injury Curry IS the warriors offense while bron isnt ours the same way at all, and yeah people aren’t gonna wanna hear it but with the reporting that bron has another gear that’s probably something to take into consideration if he starts killing it after this series lol

LeBron's Game 6 was a better game than any game Curry had this series IMO

I think the "another gear" thing is probably mainly just offensive aggression. Which we definitely saw in G6, second half especially. Felt like the most we've seen LeBron drive to the rim in a minute. His finishing is still good

Hmm. So a couple things:

I don't think there's any doubt that savvy veterans like to save their juice for the opportune opportunity, and LeBron's quite adroit in this. So yeah, he can still do a lot of peak-LeBron stuff in bursts.

But I also think we have to keep in mind that the Lakers were WAY more focused on stopping Steph than the Warriors were on stopping LeBron, and Steph was the leading game scorer in each of the last 3 games, while LeBron never led a game in scoring in the entire series.

Scoring isn't everything of course, but I don't think there's any doubt that when you're talking about a game like Game 6, LeBron's scoring is a sizable chunk of what stood out to you.

It was actually everything. LeBron was more aggressive in general which was creating a lot of open looks for that lethal 3 guard lineup in the 3rd quarter. Furthermore, I thought he was the best defender for the Lakers for a bulk of the game. Davis looked gassed in the second half (around when he went 0/2 on free throws, both short) and wasn’t able to protect the rim as well.

And I’m gonna be honest, Steph chucking 3s down 20 points in the 4th quarter just doesnt move the needle for me at all. He took 2x shots of LeBron in G6 to score a whopping two more points.

This is not the first series in Steph’s career where there was a large defensive focus on him. But he usually doesn’t end series with a 54.6% TS%.

[jalengreen]

I do think the lack of a reliable #2 scoring option was a big deal for the Warriors, of course. That’s the biggest problem with this team following the decline of Klay & Poole.

[Doctor MJ]

I don't think any currently eliminated players (pre BOS-PHI g7) are likely to make my top 5. I view Giannis, Curry, Davis, and LeBron as comparable at the moment with an edge towards the guys still standing. And then there's Jokic,Tatum,Butler,Embiid probably at the top. It's a mess after Jokic tbh, East guys are hard to gauge.

I have similar thoughts, though I am wary of being a prisoner of the moment and not appreciating the regular season as much as I should.

If I go simply looking at the 4 quadrants that are now coalesced based on the two rounds of playoffs:

West 1/4/5/8 - Jokic clearly #1, Booker clearly #2
West 2/3/6/7 - AD clearly #1, Curry currently #2, and we'll see what happens with LeBron in the rounds to come
East 1/4/5/8 - Jimmy clearly #1, from there it's murky but I'd guess most would put Giannis at #2, and a shout out to Brunson
East 2/3/6/7 - Embiid #1 & Tatum #2 at the moment for me, shout outs to Harden & Brown I suppose

Outside of that, I think SGA is the guy likely to get the most attention, but to me he's more at the shout out level.
There's also Dame to consider, but I'd put Curry ahead of him, and I'll really be surprised if there's room for both of them when all is said and done.

Feels to me like all those #1's - Jokic, AD, Jimmy & Embiid - are close to locks.

So, looks like a list dominated by guys from the final 4 teams, but that doesn't necessarily mean any team will get 2, and if the Celtics lose today I think there will be a pretty clear opening in one spot. (Tatum may end up filling it for me to be clear, but he may not.)

[Doctor MJ]

And I’m gonna be honest, Steph chucking 3s down 20 points in the 4th quarter just doesnt move the needle for me at all. He took 2x shots of LeBron in G6 to score a whopping two more points.

Fair enough perspective in general, but I really need to emphasize a response here:

I think efficiency is inherently something critical to look at and I take it quite seriously when evaluating player performance...

but when you know what player is being focused on by the defense WAY more than the other,
and you know that player being focused on so much is on a team whose other stars are drastically underperforming,

there's a more meaningful way to look at what's going on.

As I'm wont to say:

EVERY scorer can be stopped if you put enough of your defensive attention on him.

The Warriors' entire approach to building around Curry is to make sure that when the defense collapses on him, other guys are able to capitalize on the opportunities given. When they can't do that, the Warriors will of course tend to just live with Curry "manufacturing" shots, which really just means taking harder shots.

[jalengreen]

I don't think any currently eliminated players (pre BOS-PHI g7) are likely to make my top 5. I view Giannis, Curry, Davis, and LeBron as comparable at the moment with an edge towards the guys still standing. And then there's Jokic,Tatum,Butler,Embiid probably at the top. It's a mess after Jokic tbh, East guys are hard to gauge.

I have similar thoughts, though I am wary of being a prisoner of the moment and not appreciating the regular season as much as I should.

If I go simply looking at the 4 quadrants that are now coalesced based on the two rounds of playoffs:

West 1/4/5/8 - Jokic clearly #1, Booker clearly #2
West 2/3/6/7 - AD clearly #1, Curry currently #2, and we'll see what happens with LeBron in the rounds to come
East 1/4/5/8 - Jimmy clearly #1, from there it's murky but I'd guess most would put Giannis at #2, and a shout out to Brunson
East 2/3/6/7 - Embiid #1 & Tatum #2 at the moment for me, shout outs to Harden & Brown I suppose

Outside of that, I think SGA is the guy likely to get the most attention, but to me he's more at the shout out level.
There's also Dame to consider, but I'd put Curry ahead of him, and I'll really be surprised if there's room for both of them when all is said and done.

Feels to me like all those #1's - Jokic, AD, Jimmy & Embiid - are close to locks.

So, looks like a list dominated by guys from the final 4 teams, but that doesn't necessarily mean any team will get 2, and if the Celtics lose today I think there will be a pretty clear opening in one spot. (Tatum may end up filling it for me to be clear, but he may not.)

Agreed all around basically, I think Tatum’s the best #2 in that analysis and would fill out my ballot right now. Although things would be interesting if he loses tonight.

[Doctor MJ]

I do think the lack of a reliable #2 scoring option was a big deal for the Warriors, of course. That’s the biggest problem with this team following the decline of Klay & Poole.

Thank you for mentioning this.

I'd really like to NOT be coming off as talking up Curry's performance in this series and talking as if the Lakers were lucky to win the series. The Lakers were freaking awesome, and I see them as a major contender for the chip.

But, in the regular season, together the Klay-Poole duo shoots 14.6 for 33.7 from the field, and 7.0 for 18.4 from 3.
In that game Klay-Poole shot 6 for 29 from the field, and 2 for 15 from 3.

Give the Warriors there missing 5 made 3's, and 3.6 other made 2's, that's like a 22 point swing, bigger than the winning margin.

The fundamental reality of how the Warriors have built around Curry is that he and they are literally banking that this not happening, so when it does, they're kinda screwed. As they say, live by the 3, die by the 3. For all involved it means a type of fragility in their potential for success, and a void where an achievement would have otherwise been each time it burns them...but it's also just a thing that happens sometimes for reasons that aren't really about Curry actually playing badly.

[Doctor MJ]

btw, definitely thinking of Austin Reaves as a MIP candidate now.

[MyUniBroDavis]

btw, definitely thinking of Austin Reaves as a MIP candidate now.

I love the guy but I don’t think he has an argument when guys like lauri and shai exist

If he had maintained the same form he did post trades maybe but the lack of calls he got in the RS has hurt him so far

Think he’ll do well vs the nuggets though

[MyUniBroDavis]

So embiids out

[Homer38]

It will be very hard for Jokic to not win the POY....