End to End Speed: Peak D.Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, De'Aaron Fox

[mdonnelly1989]

End to End Speed: Peak D.Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, De'Aaron Fox

[kendogg]

derrick rose ran a 4.18 40 yard dash. i'm pretty sure its the fastest time ever recorded by an nba player. some of the fastest guys in generations past (including wall, russ, jordan, kobe) are in the 4.3-4.4 range. lebron is 4.5-4.6 range. not sure what fox is but my guess is in the 4.3-4.4 range.

[Colbinii]

derrick rose ran a 4.18 40 yard dash. i'm pretty sure its the fastest time ever recorded by an nba player. some of the fastest guys in generations past (including wall, russ, jordan, kobe) are in the 4.3-4.4 range. lebron is 4.5-4.6 range. not sure what fox is but my guess is in the 4.3-4.4 range.

Yup. It is actually insanely fast. It is faster than the fastest NFL 40 time as well I believe [Chris Johnson].

Derrick Rose may very well be the fastest NBA player in history.

[SNPA]

End to End Speed: Peak D.Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, De'Aaron Fox

With the ball or without?

[mdonnelly1989]

End to End Speed: Peak D.Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, De'Aaron Fox

With the ball or without?

With but I'm curioes t know your answer for without

[mdonnelly1989]

derrick rose ran a 4.18 40 yard dash. i'm pretty sure its the fastest time ever recorded by an nba player. some of the fastest guys in generations past (including wall, russ, jordan, kobe) are in the 4.3-4.4 range. lebron is 4.5-4.6 range. not sure what fox is but my guess is in the 4.3-4.4 range.

Yup. It is actually insanely fast. It is faster than the fastest NFL 40 time as well I believe [Chris Johnson].

Derrick Rose may very well be the fastest NBA player in history.

i'm pretty sure Rose, Wall and Westbrook have to be top 5. It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

In fact, those are probably my top 4.

But I think Ty Lawson deserves a mention. And Fox is already probably top 10 TBH.

[kendogg]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

That is a mighty ignorant statement. There was incredible athletes in every era and while most of those athletes in older era's don't have precise timed runs, and those that do were hand timed and probably ran barefoot or in converse, that doesn't mean they aren't in the conversation for fastest.

There are certainly role players who could match super elite times from most eras, but if we are only talking about star players or widely known players (in 40-yard dash):

Wilt Chamberlain 4.6
Bill Russell 4.3

Bill's time matches the fastest runs aside from Rose. Of course that was hand timed so it could be a bit off, but it was also pre-modern footwear and pre-weight lifting. Both Wilt and Russell were track and field stars so they had official runs there, just not by the NBA.

Spud Webb 4.3
Iverson 4.3
Ja Morant 4.29

We don't have timed runs for these players but they likely would have clocked elite times:
John Thompson
Walt Frazier
Julius Erving
Isiah Thomas
Muggsey Bogues
Nate Robinson

[MyUniBroDavis]

derrick rose ran a 4.18 40 yard dash. i'm pretty sure its the fastest time ever recorded by an nba player. some of the fastest guys in generations past (including wall, russ, jordan, kobe) are in the 4.3-4.4 range. lebron is 4.5-4.6 range. not sure what fox is but my guess is in the 4.3-4.4 range.

Yup. It is actually insanely fast. It is faster than the fastest NFL 40 time as well I believe [Chris Johnson].

Derrick Rose may very well be the fastest NBA player in history.

i'm pretty sure Rose, Wall and Westbrook have to be top 5. It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

In fact, those are probably my top 4.

But I think Ty Lawson deserves a mention. And Fox is already probably top 10 TBH.

What’s the evidence he actually ran a 4.18, I only see fringe sites mentioning it

[mdonnelly1989]

Yup. It is actually insanely fast. It is faster than the fastest NFL 40 time as well I believe [Chris Johnson].

Derrick Rose may very well be the fastest NBA player in history.

i'm pretty sure Rose, Wall and Westbrook have to be top 5. It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

In fact, those are probably my top 4.

But I think Ty Lawson deserves a mention. And Fox is already probably top 10 TBH.

What’s the evidence he actually ran a 4.18, I only see fringe sites mentioning it

Right where are these #s coming from... ?

They sound made up haha

[70sFan]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

Why?

[McBubbles]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

That is a mighty ignorant statement. There was incredible athletes in every era and while most of those athletes in older era's don't have precise timed runs, and those that do were hand timed and probably ran barefoot or in converse, that doesn't mean they aren't in the conversation for fastest.

There are certainly role players who could match super elite times from most eras, but if we are only talking about star players or widely known players (in 40-yard dash):

Wilt Chamberlain 4.6
Bill Russell 4.3

Bill's time matches the fastest runs aside from Rose. Of course that was hand timed so it could be a bit off, but it was also pre-modern footwear and pre-weight lifting. Both Wilt and Russell were track and field stars so they had official runs there, just not by the NBA.

Spud Webb 4.3
Iverson 4.3
Ja Morant 4.29

We don't have timed runs for these players but they likely would have clocked elite times:
John Thompson
Walt Frazier
Julius Erving
Isiah Thomas
Muggsey Bogues
Nate Robinson

You guys need to chill. Obviously fake 40 yard dashes that people somehow still believe because they don't know much about sprinting or biomechanics or comparable sports™ are one of my biggest pet peeves lol.

I can tell you off rip that all those are fake. Incredibly tall, incredibly gym weak, non-power athletes aren't running anything below a 4.5. There are probably literally less than 10 players in NBA history that can run an electronically timed 4.5, and they're likely not even the best players, just some randoms.

Usain Bolt, the man who had the world record for both 40m and 60m splits at the time (so no "he starts slow" baloney), ran a 4.22 40 yard dash. There ain't no **** way ANY NBA player came close to, or even exceeded Usain Bolt's split.

+ That's just blissfully ignorant to the point of arrogance in regards to NFL athletes capabilities. The NFL, the organisation that has previously housed and tested some 100m Olympians mind you, and the organisation that has the most fastest and explosive field athletes in human history, who all from a genetic standpoint, have the most fast twitch muscle fibers out of anyone on the planet besides sprinters, who all constantly train with the explicit purpose of maximising their acceleration from a stand still, has a 40 yard dash record of 4.22.

Why on earth would the fastest NBA players i.e, the really tall, (bad for acceleration, especially after a certain height) guys that aren't the most explosive athletes ever, who don't even train for the 40 yard dash, have 40 yard dash times that exceed the NFLs record? Answer, they would not.

P.S, almost every single commonly sited Wilt Chamberlain athletic feat is an unsubstantiated myth.

[Jaivl]

Even ignoring the lack of proof, gotta add 2 tenths of a second to every manual timed run.

Su Bingtian, probably the fastest starter in history, has a 4.1 40-yd dash on his Tokyo semis. Simply no way Rose is on the same tenth as him.

[SkyHookFTW]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

That is a mighty ignorant statement. There was incredible athletes in every era and while most of those athletes in older era's don't have precise timed runs, and those that do were hand timed and probably ran barefoot or in converse, that doesn't mean they aren't in the conversation for fastest.

There are certainly role players who could match super elite times from most eras, but if we are only talking about star players or widely known players (in 40-yard dash):

Wilt Chamberlain 4.6
Bill Russell 4.3

Bill's time matches the fastest runs aside from Rose. Of course that was hand timed so it could be a bit off, but it was also pre-modern footwear and pre-weight lifting. Both Wilt and Russell were track and field stars so they had official runs there, just not by the NBA.

Spud Webb 4.3
Iverson 4.3
Ja Morant 4.29

We don't have timed runs for these players but they likely would have clocked elite times:
John Thompson
Walt Frazier
Julius Erving
Isiah Thomas
Muggsey Bogues
Nate Robinson

You guys need to chill. Obviously fake 40 yard dashes that people somehow still believe because they don't know much about sprinting or biomechanics or comparable sports™ are one of my biggest pet peeves lol.

I can tell you off rip that all those are fake. Incredibly tall, incredibly gym weak, non-power athletes aren't running anything below a 4.5. There are probably literally less than 10 players in NBA history that can run an electronically timed 4.5, and they're likely not even the best players, just some randoms.

Usain Bolt, the man who had the world record for both 40m and 60m splits at the time (so no "he starts slow" baloney), ran a 4.22 40 yard dash. There ain't no **** way ANY NBA player came close to, or even exceeded Usain Bolt's split.

+ That's just blissfully ignorant to the point of arrogance in regards to NFL athletes capabilities. The NFL, the organisation that has previously housed and tested some 100m Olympians mind you, and the organisation that has the most fastest and explosive field athletes in human history, who all from a genetic standpoint, have the most fast twitch muscle fibers out of anyone on the planet besides sprinters, who all constantly train with the explicit purpose of maximising their acceleration from a stand still, has a 40 yard dash record of 4.22.

Why on earth would the fastest NBA players i.e, the really tall, (bad for acceleration, especially after a certain height) guys that aren't the most explosive athletes ever, who don't even train for the 40 yard dash, have 40 yard dash times that exceed the NFLs record? Answer, they would not.

P.S, almost every single commonly sited Wilt Chamberlain athletic feat is an unsubstantiated myth.

6'5" Usain Bolt is a slow starter and a number of people beat his 20 and 40 meter splits. Bolt catches the field at the 50 mark and blows them away by the 70 mark. For comparison, Calvin Johnson, 6'5", 237 pounds, ripped to the max, ran an official time of 4.35 at the NFL combine.

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell were both track and field training from a young age (before basketball for them), so the 4.6 from Wilt is certainly believable and to my knowledge recorded at Overbrook in Philly, along with a number of his high school and Pennsylvania state records. Russell was a better high jumper than Wilt and quite the sprinter as well. 4.3 may be off, but 4.5 is believable for such an athlete. I don't know of any other NBA player who specifically started out as a track and field athlete before playing basketball except for Bobby Jones, who was a star high jumper as well and like Wilt, enjoyed track and field more than basketball. As a trivia point, Jones took second place in his state track meet (high jump) to Bob McAdoo. It's interesting how many old school bigs (Wilt, 7'1"+, Bill 6'9"+, Jones 6'9", McAdoo 6'9") were excellent high jumpers before becoming NBA pros. People continually underestimate the core strength and lower body strength of these big men. These outliers specifically trained for track events.

Side note: Before anyone disses Wilt and Bill for their high jump heights, this was pre-Fosbury flop technique. What they did was on pure strength.

[eminence]

I don't buy 4.18 for Rose, as that's well into world class territory, but I do expect there are plenty of NBA guards in the 4.3-4.5 range.

We've got 3/4 court times from the combine (25 yards) and plenty of guys are in the 3 second range there. I want to say Robinson's 2.96 was the best of anybody who made it in the NBA.

Donovan Mitchell had a 3.01 a few years ago (electronic by then, unsure about in Nates day).

[SkyHookFTW]

If anyone wants to compare 40 times to NFL players that are size-wise comparable to PG's, Deshaun Jackson ran 4.35, Tyreek Hill 4.29, DJ Turner 4.26, all official NFL combine times. 6'6", 340 pound Jordan Davis shocked the world with his 4.78 40 time at the combine last year. These are athletes that specifically train for explosiveness and short burst power.

[kendogg]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless you're talking about MJ.

That is a mighty ignorant statement. There was incredible athletes in every era and while most of those athletes in older era's don't have precise timed runs, and those that do were hand timed and probably ran barefoot or in converse, that doesn't mean they aren't in the conversation for fastest.

There are certainly role players who could match super elite times from most eras, but if we are only talking about star players or widely known players (in 40-yard dash):

Wilt Chamberlain 4.6
Bill Russell 4.3

Bill's time matches the fastest runs aside from Rose. Of course that was hand timed so it could be a bit off, but it was also pre-modern footwear and pre-weight lifting. Both Wilt and Russell were track and field stars so they had official runs there, just not by the NBA.

Spud Webb 4.3
Iverson 4.3
Ja Morant 4.29

We don't have timed runs for these players but they likely would have clocked elite times:
John Thompson
Walt Frazier
Julius Erving
Isiah Thomas
Muggsey Bogues
Nate Robinson

You guys need to chill. Obviously fake 40 yard dashes that people somehow still believe because they don't know much about sprinting or biomechanics or comparable sports™ are one of my biggest pet peeves lol.

I can tell you off rip that all those are fake. Incredibly tall, incredibly gym weak, non-power athletes aren't running anything below a 4.5. There are probably literally less than 10 players in NBA history that can run an electronically timed 4.5, and they're likely not even the best players, just some randoms.

Usain Bolt, the man who had the world record for both 40m and 60m splits at the time (so no "he starts slow" baloney), ran a 4.22 40 yard dash. There ain't no **** way ANY NBA player came close to, or even exceeded Usain Bolt's split.

+ That's just blissfully ignorant to the point of arrogance in regards to NFL athletes capabilities. The NFL, the organisation that has previously housed and tested some 100m Olympians mind you, and the organisation that has the most fastest and explosive field athletes in human history, who all from a genetic standpoint, have the most fast twitch muscle fibers out of anyone on the planet besides sprinters, who all constantly train with the explicit purpose of maximising their acceleration from a stand still, has a 40 yard dash record of 4.22.

Why on earth would the fastest NBA players i.e, the really tall, (bad for acceleration, especially after a certain height) guys that aren't the most explosive athletes ever, who don't even train for the 40 yard dash, have 40 yard dash times that exceed the NFLs record? Answer, they would not.

P.S, almost every single commonly sited Wilt Chamberlain athletic feat is an unsubstantiated myth.

Usain Bolt's time was 1 random run he did in sweatpants. He could certainly get a better time if he tried.

These times aren't by super tall unathletic players. These are all small guards who are absolutely freak athletes. All NBA players are doing weight training these days I'm not sure what world you live on, but it certainly isn't earth. Also the top NFL speedsters are between 4.2 and 4.3 on their runs, and for the NBA its between 4.3 and 4.4. So yes the NFL speedsters are a bit faster on average. To say there isn't 10 players in NBA history that can run a 4.5 is very much not true. And yes all of these players are smaller guards like Rose, Westbrook, Iverson, etc. The fastest bigger guys are clocking 4.5-4.7.

Also all the strength training hurts the NFL guys top speeds to some extent. Having big arms is just extra weight to lug around. Which is why the unoffical college timed runs these guys do are invariably faster (Bo Jackson apparently ran a 4.13 in college)

And there are some very tall players with huge strides like Giannis that have elite speed. Wilt and Russ were track and field athletes in college and are every bit as fast as Giannis, who can run over half the court in 6 steps.

Also the NFL might have on average better athletes (at least certain positions), but the NBA has many of the best athletes in the world because NBA players are better paid, have larger guaranteed contracts, and don't have to play full contact and have debilitating conditions from multiple concussions post retirement.

These times were not done on the NBA combine of course, which is a 75ft sprint and most top draft picks don't participate anyway. Most of these were runs timed in college. Obviously a lot of these guys flirted with playing football. And yes most of these runs are self reported and not official with video evidence, but we also have video evidence to back the times up...many of the best NBA athletes have been clocked in MPH from NBA video, which you can use to extrapolate times. Russell Westbrook for example was clocked at 21.6mph in a game. That's not even on fresh legs that's in the middle of a game after playing many minutes. Bolt's top speed is 27mph but that is an official run using running gear and fresh legs.

[eminence]

Anybody have any interesting studies on how surface type changes these types of times?

Without knowing that Mitchell's 3.01 25 yard would roughly convert to a 4.40 40 yard, in basketball shoes. Not 10 that can do a 4.5 is absurd.

I have zero doubt NBA players are some of the best speed athletes on the planet, and arguably the most talented (it's the most financially rewarding league there is), though less specifically trained for it than both types of football and track athletes.

[Gooner]

I would say Westbrook, he has really long strides and covers the ground very easily.

Watch on YouTube

[kcktiny]

It can't be anybody pre 90s unless...

Rickey Green was the fastest I ever saw end-to-end with the ball.

[LA Bird]

I don't think people realize that "official" combine numbers are hand timed and are wildly inaccurate. Even the 40 yard estimates I see quoted for Su Bingtian and Usain Bolt ITT are way off.

Here are the 10m split times for the best sprinters in history before the 2020 Olympics:
http://www.athletefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/M100m-sprint-splits-by-time.pdf
(Note: Author didn't include reaction time for 1999 World Championships so add another 0.13 seconds to those splits for Maurice Greene and Bruny Surin)

The fastest 0-30m split in history is 3.73 seconds by Su
The fastest 30-40m split in history is 0.85 seconds by Bolt and Gatlin

40 yards is 36.576 meters. Ignoring the fact that these guys are still accelerating at that point and assuming a linear extrapolation, 3.73 + 0.85 x 0.6576 = 4.29 seconds. 4.3 is the best 40 yard dash time possible from combining the time of sprinters with the best start and best top speed. And that's athletes who specialized in sprinting, running on track surface, with spikes, and a block start. Nobody in the NBA or NFL is touching that number. They are insanely fast but they would still get dusted by Olympic sprinters.