RUN IT BACK! Heats v. Nicklebockers, 5/6/23, 3:30pm. HIMMY LIVES

[Hallstar]

I don’t post here much at all because I see all the hate Bam and Spo get regularly here. Tyler Herro is very literally nothing compared to those two.

I know you (and most posters here) don’t care about metrics and such. That’s cool. I can post Duncan’s playoff metrics that blow Herro’s out of the water, won’t matter. But if you don’t learn anything else about NBA basketball, you play the poor defender who drags two off the ball instead of the poor defender who takes bad shots single covered. Way too many capable ball handlers on the Heat, it’s not needed from Herro.

20 points?! Woo-hoo! He’s never shot over league average in terms of true shooting or effective field goal %. His points can be manufactured by the team easily with the offensive variation Spo brings. I’ve always been an Oladipo fan and his absence is a boon as well as awfully inconsistent as he was this season. As someone who’s studied Jimmy Butler for 10 years, the Heat have all they need to get to the Finals trust me.

There's always one

Or two... or more.

Some of us look at the numbers to go with what we see on the court, running a query of what all the 54 20+ ppg players did this year(min 10 games) and then sort it by the calculated ORTG, you'd find that Butler was #1 this season at 135, Bam was #34 at 115 (league average 114.8 which jumped 2.8 points from last year) and then see Herro at #47 with 109, it's only 6 under the league average per100. Now toss in him being a negative on defense and we can now start seeing why this team is looking better in the playoffs. You can be a talented player that just doesn't fit well with a team, especially an offnsive only player on a team that's said to be built on effort and defense.

Code: Select all

+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+
|Player                 |year|age|g |ts%  |fga |pts |ast |reb |stl|blk|to |ortg|drtg|Net Rating|
+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+
|Jimmy Butler           |2023|33 |64|0.647|13.9|22.9|5.3 |5.9 |1.8|0.3|1.6|135 |112 |23        |
|Nikola Jokić           |2023|27 |69|0.701|14.8|24.5|9.8 |11.8|1.3|0.7|3.6|134 |110 |24        |
|Tyrese Haliburton      |2023|22 |56|0.624|15  |20.7|10.4|3.7 |1.6|0.4|2.5|129 |118 |11        |
|Damian Lillard         |2023|32 |58|0.645|20.7|32.2|7.3 |4.8 |0.9|0.3|3.3|126 |121 |5         |
|Jalen Brunson          |2023|26 |68|0.597|17.6|24  |6.2 |3.5 |0.9|0.2|2.1|125 |117 |8         |
|Kawhi Leonard          |2023|31 |52|0.623|16.8|23.8|3.9 |6.5 |1.4|0.5|1.7|125 |113 |12        |
|Shai Gilgeous-Alexander|2023|24 |68|0.626|20.3|31.4|5.5 |4.8 |1.6|1  |2.8|125 |113 |12        |
|Lauri Markkanen        |2023|25 |66|0.64 |17.3|25.6|1.9 |8.6 |0.6|0.6|1.9|125 |116 |9         |
|Anthony Davis          |2023|29 |56|0.627|17.2|25.9|2.6 |12.5|1.1|2  |2.2|124 |108 |16        |
|Joel Embiid            |2023|28 |66|0.655|20.1|33.1|4.2 |10.2|1  |1.7|3.4|124 |109 |15        |
|James Harden           |2023|33 |58|0.607|14.5|21  |10.7|6.1 |1.2|0.5|3.4|123 |113 |10        |
|Stephen Curry          |2023|34 |56|0.656|20.2|29.4|6.3 |6.1 |0.9|0.4|3.2|123 |115 |8         |
|Kevin Durant           |2023|34 |47|0.677|18.3|29.1|5   |6.7 |0.7|1.4|3.3|123 |113 |10        |
|Kyrie Irving           |2023|30 |60|0.613|20.1|27.1|5.5 |5.1 |1.1|0.8|2.1|121 |116 |5         |
|Kristaps Porziņģis     |2023|27 |65|0.627|15.7|23.2|2.7 |8.4 |0.9|1.5|2.1|121 |113 |8         |
|Tyrese Maxey           |2023|22 |60|0.605|15.2|20.3|3.5 |2.9 |0.8|0.1|1.3|120 |117 |3         |
|Luka Dončić            |2023|23 |66|0.609|22  |32.4|8   |8.6 |1.4|0.5|3.6|120 |113 |7         |
|DeMar DeRozan          |2023|33 |74|0.592|17.6|24.5|5.1 |4.6 |1.1|0.5|2.1|119 |113 |6         |
|Devin Booker           |2023|26 |53|0.601|20.1|27.8|5.5 |4.5 |1  |0.3|2.7|119 |115 |4         |
|DeAaron Fox            |2023|25 |73|0.599|18.2|25  |6.1 |4.2 |1.1|0.3|2.5|119 |117 |2         |
|Desmond Bane           |2023|24 |58|0.606|16.2|21.5|4.4 |5   |1  |0.4|2.2|119 |113 |6         |
|Mikal Bridges          |2023|26 |83|0.587|15.3|20.1|3.3 |4.4 |1.1|0.7|1.5|118 |115 |3         |
|Bojan Bogdanović       |2023|33 |59|0.627|14.9|21.6|2.6 |3.8 |0.6|0.1|2.3|118 |122 |-4        |
|Darius Garland         |2023|23 |69|0.587|16.4|21.6|7.8 |2.7 |1.2|0.1|2.9|118 |113 |5         |
|Donovan Mitchell       |2023|26 |68|0.614|20.6|28.3|4.4 |4.3 |1.5|0.4|2.6|118 |111 |7         |
|Jayson Tatum           |2023|24 |74|0.607|21.1|30.1|4.6 |8.8 |1.1|0.7|2.9|118 |110 |8         |
|Pascal Siakam          |2023|28 |71|0.565|18.5|24.2|5.8 |7.8 |0.9|0.5|2.4|118 |115 |3         |
|Giannis Antetokounmpo  |2023|28 |63|0.605|20.3|31.1|5.7 |11.8|0.8|0.8|3.9|117 |108 |9         |
|Jerami Grant           |2023|28 |63|0.606|14.5|20.5|2.4 |4.5 |0.8|0.8|1.8|117 |120 |-3        |
|Julius Randle          |2023|28 |77|0.581|18.6|25.1|4.1 |10  |0.6|0.3|2.8|117 |114 |3         |
|Jamal Murray           |2023|25 |65|0.571|16  |20  |6.2 |4   |1  |0.2|2.2|116 |116 |0         |
|Trae Young             |2023|24 |73|0.573|19  |26.2|10.2|3   |1.1|0.1|4.1|116 |119 |-3        |
|Zach LaVine            |2023|27 |77|0.607|18  |24.8|4.2 |4.5 |0.9|0.2|2.5|116 |115 |1         |
|Bam Adebayo            |2023|25 |75|0.592|14.9|20.4|3.2 |9.2 |1.2|0.8|2.5|115 |111 |4         |
|LeBron James           |2023|38 |55|0.583|22.2|28.9|6.8 |8.3 |0.9|0.6|3.2|114 |113 |1         |
|Ja Morant              |2023|23 |61|0.557|19.9|26.2|8.1 |5.9 |1.1|0.3|3.4|114 |112 |2         |
|Bradley Beal           |2023|29 |50|0.593|17.6|23.2|5.4 |3.9 |0.9|0.7|2.9|114 |117 |-3        |
|Paul George            |2023|32 |56|0.588|17.9|23.8|5.1 |6.1 |1.5|0.4|3.1|113 |113 |0         |
|Anfernee Simons        |2023|23 |62|0.581|16.9|21.1|4.1 |2.6 |0.7|0.2|2.1|113 |123 |-10       |
|Dejounte Murray        |2023|26 |74|0.54 |17.8|20.5|6.1 |5.3 |1.5|0.3|2.2|112 |116 |-4        |
|Brandon Ingram         |2023|25 |45|0.582|18.6|24.7|5.8 |5.5 |0.7|0.4|3.3|112 |114 |-2        |
|CJ McCollum            |2023|31 |75|0.541|17.9|20.9|5.7 |4.4 |0.9|0.5|2.4|110 |115 |-5        |
|Klay Thompson          |2023|32 |69|0.576|18.1|21.9|2.4 |4.1 |0.7|0.4|1.8|110 |117 |-7        |
|Jaylen Brown           |2023|26 |67|0.581|20.6|26.6|3.5 |6.9 |1.1|0.4|2.9|110 |111 |-1        |
|Jalen Green            |2023|20 |76|0.538|17.9|22.1|3.7 |3.7 |0.8|0.2|2.6|109 |122 |-13       |
|Jordan Poole           |2023|23 |82|0.573|15.6|20.4|4.5 |2.7 |0.8|0.3|3.1|109 |117 |-8        |
|Tyler Herro            |2023|23 |67|0.566|16.6|20.1|4.2 |5.4 |0.8|0.2|2.4|109 |115 |-6        |
|Jordan Clarkson        |2023|30 |61|0.558|16.9|20.8|4.4 |4   |0.5|0.2|3  |109 |120 |-11       |
|Keldon Johnson         |2023|23 |63|0.551|17.7|22  |2.9 |5   |0.7|0.2|2.1|108 |122 |-14       |
|Kelly Oubre Jr.        |2023|27 |48|0.534|17.1|20.3|1.1 |5.2 |1.4|0.4|1.3|106 |115 |-9        |
|Terry Rozier           |2023|28 |63|0.517|18.9|21.1|5.1 |4.1 |1.2|0.3|2.1|106 |117 |-11       |
|Anthony Edwards        |2023|21 |79|0.564|19.5|24.6|4.4 |5.8 |1.6|0.7|3.3|106 |113 |-7        |
|Paolo Banchero         |2023|20 |72|0.529|15.6|20  |3.7 |6.9 |0.8|0.5|2.8|105 |114 |-9        |
|Kyle Kuzma             |2023|27 |64|0.544|17.8|21.2|3.7 |7.2 |0.6|0.5|3  |103 |117 |-14       |
+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+

Here's Herro's PER36s to see his progress, the improvement outside of being allowed to shoot more FGA which equates to more points just isn't all that great. The issue was that Herro was quite skilled coming into the NBA which is usually one of the areas that players can get much better at which of course helps their games a great amount. Miami is making a long term bet with Herro that he makes some kind of leap to being much better than he is now. That bet is also costing Miami from having a stronger roster during this Butler era in Miami.

Code: Select all

+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+
|Player     |age|ts%  |FGA36|2%   |3pt% |Pts36|Ast36|Reb36|Blk36|TOV36|ortg|drtg|Net Rating|
+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+
|Tyler Herro|20 |0.55 |15.1 |0.462|0.389|17.7 |2.9  |5.3  |0.2  |2.1  |103 |112 |-9        |
|Tyler Herro|21 |0.543|15.4 |0.498|0.36 |17.9 |4.1  |5.9  |0.4  |2.2  |104 |113 |-9        |
|Tyler Herro|22 |0.561|18.8 |0.477|0.399|22.9 |4.4  |5.5  |0.1  |2.9  |107 |111 |-4        |
|Tyler Herro|23 |0.566|17.1 |0.497|0.378|20.7 |4.3  |5.5  |0.2  |2.4  |109 |115 |-6        |
+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+

How did I know you would be there for your burner acct? You don't know how to use stats in relation to skillset, role etc. That alone makes any argument a waste of time.

[AirP.]

There's always one

Or two... or more.

Some of us look at the numbers to go with what we see on the court, running a query of what all the 54 20+ ppg players did this year(min 10 games) and then sort it by the calculated ORTG, you'd find that Butler was #1 this season at 135, Bam was #34 at 115 (league average 114.8 which jumped 2.8 points from last year) and then see Herro at #47 with 109, it's only 6 under the league average per100. Now toss in him being a negative on defense and we can now start seeing why this team is looking better in the playoffs. You can be a talented player that just doesn't fit well with a team, especially an offnsive only player on a team that's said to be built on effort and defense.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+
|Player                 |year|age|g |ts%  |fga |pts |ast |reb |stl|blk|to |ortg|drtg|Net Rating|
+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+
|Jimmy Butler           |2023|33 |64|0.647|13.9|22.9|5.3 |5.9 |1.8|0.3|1.6|135 |112 |23        |
|Nikola Jokić           |2023|27 |69|0.701|14.8|24.5|9.8 |11.8|1.3|0.7|3.6|134 |110 |24        |
|Tyrese Haliburton      |2023|22 |56|0.624|15  |20.7|10.4|3.7 |1.6|0.4|2.5|129 |118 |11        |
|Damian Lillard         |2023|32 |58|0.645|20.7|32.2|7.3 |4.8 |0.9|0.3|3.3|126 |121 |5         |
|Jalen Brunson          |2023|26 |68|0.597|17.6|24  |6.2 |3.5 |0.9|0.2|2.1|125 |117 |8         |
|Kawhi Leonard          |2023|31 |52|0.623|16.8|23.8|3.9 |6.5 |1.4|0.5|1.7|125 |113 |12        |
|Shai Gilgeous-Alexander|2023|24 |68|0.626|20.3|31.4|5.5 |4.8 |1.6|1  |2.8|125 |113 |12        |
|Lauri Markkanen        |2023|25 |66|0.64 |17.3|25.6|1.9 |8.6 |0.6|0.6|1.9|125 |116 |9         |
|Anthony Davis          |2023|29 |56|0.627|17.2|25.9|2.6 |12.5|1.1|2  |2.2|124 |108 |16        |
|Joel Embiid            |2023|28 |66|0.655|20.1|33.1|4.2 |10.2|1  |1.7|3.4|124 |109 |15        |
|James Harden           |2023|33 |58|0.607|14.5|21  |10.7|6.1 |1.2|0.5|3.4|123 |113 |10        |
|Stephen Curry          |2023|34 |56|0.656|20.2|29.4|6.3 |6.1 |0.9|0.4|3.2|123 |115 |8         |
|Kevin Durant           |2023|34 |47|0.677|18.3|29.1|5   |6.7 |0.7|1.4|3.3|123 |113 |10        |
|Kyrie Irving           |2023|30 |60|0.613|20.1|27.1|5.5 |5.1 |1.1|0.8|2.1|121 |116 |5         |
|Kristaps Porziņģis     |2023|27 |65|0.627|15.7|23.2|2.7 |8.4 |0.9|1.5|2.1|121 |113 |8         |
|Tyrese Maxey           |2023|22 |60|0.605|15.2|20.3|3.5 |2.9 |0.8|0.1|1.3|120 |117 |3         |
|Luka Dončić            |2023|23 |66|0.609|22  |32.4|8   |8.6 |1.4|0.5|3.6|120 |113 |7         |
|DeMar DeRozan          |2023|33 |74|0.592|17.6|24.5|5.1 |4.6 |1.1|0.5|2.1|119 |113 |6         |
|Devin Booker           |2023|26 |53|0.601|20.1|27.8|5.5 |4.5 |1  |0.3|2.7|119 |115 |4         |
|DeAaron Fox            |2023|25 |73|0.599|18.2|25  |6.1 |4.2 |1.1|0.3|2.5|119 |117 |2         |
|Desmond Bane           |2023|24 |58|0.606|16.2|21.5|4.4 |5   |1  |0.4|2.2|119 |113 |6         |
|Mikal Bridges          |2023|26 |83|0.587|15.3|20.1|3.3 |4.4 |1.1|0.7|1.5|118 |115 |3         |
|Bojan Bogdanović       |2023|33 |59|0.627|14.9|21.6|2.6 |3.8 |0.6|0.1|2.3|118 |122 |-4        |
|Darius Garland         |2023|23 |69|0.587|16.4|21.6|7.8 |2.7 |1.2|0.1|2.9|118 |113 |5         |
|Donovan Mitchell       |2023|26 |68|0.614|20.6|28.3|4.4 |4.3 |1.5|0.4|2.6|118 |111 |7         |
|Jayson Tatum           |2023|24 |74|0.607|21.1|30.1|4.6 |8.8 |1.1|0.7|2.9|118 |110 |8         |
|Pascal Siakam          |2023|28 |71|0.565|18.5|24.2|5.8 |7.8 |0.9|0.5|2.4|118 |115 |3         |
|Giannis Antetokounmpo  |2023|28 |63|0.605|20.3|31.1|5.7 |11.8|0.8|0.8|3.9|117 |108 |9         |
|Jerami Grant           |2023|28 |63|0.606|14.5|20.5|2.4 |4.5 |0.8|0.8|1.8|117 |120 |-3        |
|Julius Randle          |2023|28 |77|0.581|18.6|25.1|4.1 |10  |0.6|0.3|2.8|117 |114 |3         |
|Jamal Murray           |2023|25 |65|0.571|16  |20  |6.2 |4   |1  |0.2|2.2|116 |116 |0         |
|Trae Young             |2023|24 |73|0.573|19  |26.2|10.2|3   |1.1|0.1|4.1|116 |119 |-3        |
|Zach LaVine            |2023|27 |77|0.607|18  |24.8|4.2 |4.5 |0.9|0.2|2.5|116 |115 |1         |
|Bam Adebayo            |2023|25 |75|0.592|14.9|20.4|3.2 |9.2 |1.2|0.8|2.5|115 |111 |4         |
|LeBron James           |2023|38 |55|0.583|22.2|28.9|6.8 |8.3 |0.9|0.6|3.2|114 |113 |1         |
|Ja Morant              |2023|23 |61|0.557|19.9|26.2|8.1 |5.9 |1.1|0.3|3.4|114 |112 |2         |
|Bradley Beal           |2023|29 |50|0.593|17.6|23.2|5.4 |3.9 |0.9|0.7|2.9|114 |117 |-3        |
|Paul George            |2023|32 |56|0.588|17.9|23.8|5.1 |6.1 |1.5|0.4|3.1|113 |113 |0         |
|Anfernee Simons        |2023|23 |62|0.581|16.9|21.1|4.1 |2.6 |0.7|0.2|2.1|113 |123 |-10       |
|Dejounte Murray        |2023|26 |74|0.54 |17.8|20.5|6.1 |5.3 |1.5|0.3|2.2|112 |116 |-4        |
|Brandon Ingram         |2023|25 |45|0.582|18.6|24.7|5.8 |5.5 |0.7|0.4|3.3|112 |114 |-2        |
|CJ McCollum            |2023|31 |75|0.541|17.9|20.9|5.7 |4.4 |0.9|0.5|2.4|110 |115 |-5        |
|Klay Thompson          |2023|32 |69|0.576|18.1|21.9|2.4 |4.1 |0.7|0.4|1.8|110 |117 |-7        |
|Jaylen Brown           |2023|26 |67|0.581|20.6|26.6|3.5 |6.9 |1.1|0.4|2.9|110 |111 |-1        |
|Jalen Green            |2023|20 |76|0.538|17.9|22.1|3.7 |3.7 |0.8|0.2|2.6|109 |122 |-13       |
|Jordan Poole           |2023|23 |82|0.573|15.6|20.4|4.5 |2.7 |0.8|0.3|3.1|109 |117 |-8        |
|Tyler Herro            |2023|23 |67|0.566|16.6|20.1|4.2 |5.4 |0.8|0.2|2.4|109 |115 |-6        |
|Jordan Clarkson        |2023|30 |61|0.558|16.9|20.8|4.4 |4   |0.5|0.2|3  |109 |120 |-11       |
|Keldon Johnson         |2023|23 |63|0.551|17.7|22  |2.9 |5   |0.7|0.2|2.1|108 |122 |-14       |
|Kelly Oubre Jr.        |2023|27 |48|0.534|17.1|20.3|1.1 |5.2 |1.4|0.4|1.3|106 |115 |-9        |
|Terry Rozier           |2023|28 |63|0.517|18.9|21.1|5.1 |4.1 |1.2|0.3|2.1|106 |117 |-11       |
|Anthony Edwards        |2023|21 |79|0.564|19.5|24.6|4.4 |5.8 |1.6|0.7|3.3|106 |113 |-7        |
|Paolo Banchero         |2023|20 |72|0.529|15.6|20  |3.7 |6.9 |0.8|0.5|2.8|105 |114 |-9        |
|Kyle Kuzma             |2023|27 |64|0.544|17.8|21.2|3.7 |7.2 |0.6|0.5|3  |103 |117 |-14       |
+-----------------------+----+---+--+-----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----------+

Here's Herro's PER36s to see his progress, the improvement outside of being allowed to shoot more FGA which equates to more points just isn't all that great. The issue was that Herro was quite skilled coming into the NBA which is usually one of the areas that players can get much better at which of course helps their games a great amount. Miami is making a long term bet with Herro that he makes some kind of leap to being much better than he is now. That bet is also costing Miami from having a stronger roster during this Butler era in Miami.

Code: Select all

+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+
|Player     |age|ts%  |FGA36|2%   |3pt% |Pts36|Ast36|Reb36|Blk36|TOV36|ortg|drtg|Net Rating|
+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+
|Tyler Herro|20 |0.55 |15.1 |0.462|0.389|17.7 |2.9  |5.3  |0.2  |2.1  |103 |112 |-9        |
|Tyler Herro|21 |0.543|15.4 |0.498|0.36 |17.9 |4.1  |5.9  |0.4  |2.2  |104 |113 |-9        |
|Tyler Herro|22 |0.561|18.8 |0.477|0.399|22.9 |4.4  |5.5  |0.1  |2.9  |107 |111 |-4        |
|Tyler Herro|23 |0.566|17.1 |0.497|0.378|20.7 |4.3  |5.5  |0.2  |2.4  |109 |115 |-6        |
+-----------+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----------+

How did I know you would be there for your burner acct? You don't know how to use stats in relation to skillset, role etc. That alone makes any argument a waste of time.

Tell yourself whatever you need to because that was a poor rebuttal, you basically said nothing then dismissed data because skillset role? When using ORTG you don't compare the roleplayers vs team option players, roleplayers should do better having to do less in the offense.

Normally players make a jump by getting better and then being handed a bigger role on the team, Herro's had a sizable role since his 2nd season and with this enhanced role the jump should have already happened. Is there a chance for a jump later in his career, sure but it normally happens in the first 3-4 seasons.

[RexBoyWonder]

Herro was a very good pick for where he was selected, but sadly IMO he's not good enough for what this current team needs.

His production is very limiyed by 2 big factors :

1) Low FT rate - the kid never gets to the line, partly due to his physicals limitations. This prevents him from becoming an efficient high volume scorer. All the best scorers get to the line alot more.

2) his Defense. - Sadly his improvement there isn't significant enough - he's still hurts you badly on the defensive end. Which means he HAS TO be elite on offense every time he's on the floor. And he ain't on that level offensively. I hoped he can be become an average defender by now, but I'd still say Strus (an average at best defender) is conisbrbly better then him on defense.

Because of how this currnent team is built - we really need a legit 1A/B on offebse, someone that can be a first or second option next to jimmy (bam is a third option). Herro sadly cant' be that because of the reasons mentioned before. We also can't have multipule aweful defenders out there with a defensevly minded team.

To sum it up - I think we need to send Herro + sweetners out and get Jimmy a legit running mate to help him carry the offense without being a defensive hole.

I'm not sure Bradly Beal is that guy - but he's a more likely solution then Herro.
Jalyen brown would be pefect but he's not avaiable.

Not a lot of options out there that we could get with our assets.

[marson]

Herro was a very good pick for where he was selected, but sadly IMO he's not good enough for what this current team needs.

His production is very limiyed by 2 big factors :

1) Low FT rate - the kid never gets to the line, partly due to his physicals limitations. This prevents him from becoming an efficient high volume scorer. All the best scorers get to the line alot more.

2) his Defense. - Sadly his improvement there isn't significant enough - he's still hurts you badly on the defensive end. Which means he HAS TO be elite on offense every time he's on the floor. And he ain't on that level offensively. I hoped he can be become an average defender by now, but I'd still say Strus (an average at best defender) is conisbrbly better then him on defense.

Because of how this currnent team is built - we really need a legit 1A/B on offebse, someone that can be a first or second option next to jimmy (bam is a third option). Herro sadly cant' be that because of the reasons mentioned before. We also can't have multipule aweful defenders out there with a defensevly minded team.

To sum it up - I think we need to send Herro + sweetners out and get Jimmy a legit running mate to help him carry the offense without being a defensive hole.

I'm not sure Bradly Beal is that guy - but he's a more likely solution then Herro.
Jalyen brown would be pefect but he's not avaiable.

Not a lot of options out there that we could get with our assets.

Sadly I don't see any teams building around Herro. He would have an average of 30 mil a year starting next season.

It really feels like he is gonna stick here for a while unless there is a desperate team looking for a scorer shooter that can hide him on defense.

[Hallstar]

Herro was a very good pick for where he was selected, but sadly IMO he's not good enough for what this current team needs.

His production is very limiyed by 2 big factors :

1) Low FT rate - the kid never gets to the line, partly due to his physicals limitations. This prevents him from becoming an efficient high volume scorer. All the best scorers get to the line alot more.

2) his Defense. - Sadly his improvement there isn't significant enough - he's still hurts you badly on the defensive end. Which means he HAS TO be elite on offense every time he's on the floor. And he ain't on that level offensively. I hoped he can be become an average defender by now, but I'd still say Strus (an average at best defender) is conisbrbly better then him on defense.

Because of how this currnent team is built - we really need a legit 1A/B on offebse, someone that can be a first or second option next to jimmy (bam is a third option). Herro sadly cant' be that because of the reasons mentioned before. We also can't have multipule aweful defenders out there with a defensevly minded team.

To sum it up - I think we need to send Herro + sweetners out and get Jimmy a legit running mate to help him carry the offense without being a defensive hole.

I'm not sure Bradly Beal is that guy - but he's a more likely solution then Herro.
Jalyen brown would be pefect but he's not avaiable.

Not a lot of options out there that we could get with our assets.

We're supposed to be receiving assets if you trade for Beal. Washington is going nowhere and he's leading them there when they have talent. He's twice the money. I want something back for when everything goes South in 2 years.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Herro was a very good pick for where he was selected, but sadly IMO he's not good enough for what this current team needs.

His production is very limiyed by 2 big factors :

1) Low FT rate - the kid never gets to the line, partly due to his physicals limitations. This prevents him from becoming an efficient high volume scorer. All the best scorers get to the line alot more.

2) his Defense. - Sadly his improvement there isn't significant enough - he's still hurts you badly on the defensive end. Which means he HAS TO be elite on offense every time he's on the floor. And he ain't on that level offensively. I hoped he can be become an average defender by now, but I'd still say Strus (an average at best defender) is conisbrbly better then him on defense.

Because of how this currnent team is built - we really need a legit 1A/B on offebse, someone that can be a first or second option next to jimmy (bam is a third option). Herro sadly cant' be that because of the reasons mentioned before. We also can't have multipule aweful defenders out there with a defensevly minded team.

To sum it up - I think we need to send Herro + sweetners out and get Jimmy a legit running mate to help him carry the offense without being a defensive hole.

I'm not sure Bradly Beal is that guy - but he's a more likely solution then Herro.
Jalyen brown would be pefect but he's not avaiable.

Not a lot of options out there that we could get with our assets.

We will be waiting to see what happens with Dame, we’ll be on his list if/when he makes one after seeing Portland will not be able to build a contender when summer gets here. There really aren’t many suitors out there for him, even less when you factor in he’ll be giving Portland a small list or in a perfect world just says Miami like KD did with Phoenix.

Brown will be interesting depending on how the season ends. He’s seemed very frustrated this season and will be expiring next year

[SA37]

I don’t post here much at all because I see all the hate Bam and Spo get regularly here. Tyler Herro is very literally nothing compared to those two.

I know you (and most posters here) don’t care about metrics and such. That’s cool. I can post Duncan’s playoff metrics that blow Herro’s out of the water, won’t matter. But if you don’t learn anything else about NBA basketball, you play the poor defender who drags two off the ball instead of the poor defender who takes bad shots single covered. Way too many capable ball handlers on the Heat, it’s not needed from Herro.

20 points?! Woo-hoo! He’s never shot over league average in terms of true shooting or effective field goal %. His points can be manufactured by the team easily with the offensive variation Spo brings. I’ve always been an Oladipo fan and his absence is a boon as well as awfully inconsistent as he was this season. As someone who’s studied Jimmy Butler for 10 years, the Heat have all they need to get to the Finals trust me.

How players are perceived is largely based on expectations.

The issue isn't Bam is a bad player; the issue is he has never made the step towards being elite that some were expecting. Beyond that, his numbers in the playoffs are pretty pedestrian for a borderline all-star and well below his season averages (the last 3 seasons, roughly 15-8 on 52 FG% in the playoffs versus roughly 19-10 on 56 FG% in the regular season). Currently he is averaging 17-9 on 48 FG% versus 20-9 on 54 FG% in the regular season.

As for advanced metrics and the like, I personally don't think they're necessary. It's just trying to find a way to objectively measure what ones sees (or possibly doesn't see) when watching a game. Duncan Robinson's playoff metrics may blow Herro's out of the water, but there is a reason Robinson fell out of the rotation and only got back in due to injuries. He is basically an albatross contract that is one of the most untradeable in the league. That is certainly not the case for Herro.

Like any stats, advanced metrics are not the end-all, be-all.

[ShulaDon92]

Bams mom still talking about Dame. Hows his defense?

-SHULA

[ShulaDon92]

Herro was a very good pick for where he was selected, but sadly IMO he's not good enough for what this current team needs.

His production is very limiyed by 2 big factors :

1) Low FT rate - the kid never gets to the line, partly due to his physicals limitations. This prevents him from becoming an efficient high volume scorer. All the best scorers get to the line alot more.

2) his Defense. - Sadly his improvement there isn't significant enough - he's still hurts you badly on the defensive end. Which means he HAS TO be elite on offense every time he's on the floor. And he ain't on that level offensively. I hoped he can be become an average defender by now, but I'd still say Strus (an average at best defender) is conisbrbly better then him on defense.

Because of how this currnent team is built - we really need a legit 1A/B on offebse, someone that can be a first or second option next to jimmy (bam is a third option). Herro sadly cant' be that because of the reasons mentioned before. We also can't have multipule aweful defenders out there with a defensevly minded team.

To sum it up - I think we need to send Herro + sweetners out and get Jimmy a legit running mate to help him carry the offense without being a defensive hole.

I'm not sure Bradly Beal is that guy - but he's a more likely solution then Herro.
Jalyen brown would be pefect but he's not avaiable.

Not a lot of options out there that we could get with our assets.

If Don Cuban loses his asset by messing up this Kyrie Cobra situation we can trade Herro and more for LeLuka LeDoncic

Yaaasssssssssaaaaaa

Jimmy/Luka/Bam? Wowiwiwiwiwi

-SHULA

[Lennyzinho]

Bams mom still talking about Dame. Hows his defense?

-SHULA

Not good. But he's never been coached by a defensive first coach or played for a team like the Heat that makes that a priority.
Also, he is always expected to shoulder the entire offense for the Blazers so he has little energy left to also try playing defense which would not be the case here. We can give him less minutes during regular season and we can let Jimmy, Bam score a bit or run the offense and just play our general good team offense. So... I definitely believe he has the agility and athleticism to play league avg defense but he will never become a Jrue or Caruso or Lonzo Ball type guy on defense.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Bams mom still talking about Dame. Hows his defense?

-SHULA

Not good. But he's never been coached by a defensive first coach or played for a team like the Heat that makes that a priority.
Also, he is always expected to shoulder the entire offense for the Blazers so he has little energy left to also try playing defense which would not be the case here. We can give him less minutes during regular season and we can let Jimmy, Bam score a bit or run the offense and just play our general good team offense. So... I definitely believe he has the agility and athleticism to play league avg defense but he will never become a Jrue or Caruso or Lonzo Ball type guy on defense.

We’ve been hiding 2 or more bad defenders for years now, give Jimmy and Bam a guy who can average 32-5-8 on ridiculous efficiency and the rest is history

[ShulaDon92]

Get outtaa here with these daydreams. Bams mom means well but she's not even a professional.

Don't want another bad defender.

Enjoy the playoffs with OUR GUYS

Lets GOOOOOO

-SHULA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Get outtaa here with these daydreams. Bams mom means well but she's not even a professional.

Don't want another bad defender.

Enjoy the playoffs with OUR GUYS

Lets GOOOOOO

-SHULA

Stay off the crack my guy

[ShulaDon92]

Get outtaa here with these daydreams. Bams mom means well but she's not even a professional.

Don't want another bad defender.

Enjoy the playoffs with OUR GUYS

Lets GOOOOOO

-SHULA

Stay off the crack my guy

Reported for personal attacks.

-SHULA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Get outtaa here with these daydreams. Bams mom means well but she's not even a professional.

Don't want another bad defender.

Enjoy the playoffs with OUR GUYS

Lets GOOOOOO

-SHULA

Stay off the crack my guy

Reported for personal attacks.

-SHULA

Reported for baiting.

-3AMMY

[ShulaDon92]

Stay off the crack my guy

Reported for personal attacks.

-SHULA

Reported for baiting.

-3AMMY

You were just complaining about the sensitive personal attacks and now youre just looking like a clown by doing the same.

I'm sorry.

Get a life

-SHULA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Reported for personal attacks.

-SHULA

Reported for baiting.

-3AMMY

You were just complaining about the sensitive personal attacks and now youre just looking like a clown by doing the same.

I'm sorry.

Get a life

-SHULA

I was crying about personal attacks? You must be confused.

Reported for confusing me with another poster. There’s only 1 3ammy

-3AMMY

[ShulaDon92]

They get proven wrong and they get so defensive

You are literally dumb.

Look at the evidence.

Get a life dude cmon

[ShulaDon92]

Nobody here is your enemy you dumb retarrrd

Stop making this place suck

[insfo]

Sorry guys, didn't realize not creating a new thread would lead to this

On it!