Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[vulture]

Double

[Boogie!]

What people are missing here with Scottie, that has nothing to do with analytics, is that there were times they actively looked him off. And actively chose to ignore him. People kept saying he wasn't aggress8ve enough and then when he actually got good position and Called for the ball certain players would ignore him. I kept thinking about Lowry, and him establishing certain players and encouraging them to be aggressive. There was this mentality that in order to win we needed to get certain players to play better. Instead There were times scottie was on a hot streak and instead of feeding the hot hand, they actively chose to get theirs instead. There were definitely chemistry issues this season and not all of them were scotties fault.

[vulture]

Wouldn’t be surprised if they heard that from Pensare.

Certain people just have amnesia about how terrible Scottie was this season. They are just looking for excuses.

I think people are also expecting a second year player to play like a 7 year vet.

I see a problem with Nick Nurse and young players. They don't a long leash to work through mistakes and play through adversity. Guys come into the game...make a mistake and then get yanked.

That's a problem when the coach is coaching to win instead of developing.

That was never an issue for Scottie since you know he played 35 mins a game. He was also touted as a second option on offense at the beginning of the season despite being horrible. He wasn’t good enough on both sides of the ball.

No need for excuses, he just has to improve and come back next season as a better 2 way player.

[Mikistan]

Certain people just have amnesia about how terrible Scottie was this season. They are just looking for excuses.

I think people are also expecting a second year player to play like a 7 year vet.

I see a problem with Nick Nurse and young players. They don't a long leash to work through mistakes and play through adversity. Guys come into the game...make a mistake and then get yanked.

That's a problem when the coach is coaching to win instead of developing.

That was never an issue for Scottie since you he played 35 mins a game. He was also touted as a second option on offense at the beginning of the season despite being horrible. He wasn’t good enough on both sides of the ball.

No need for excuses, he just has to improve and come back next season as a better 2 way player.

OK Doug Smith

[mtcan]

I can draw a lot of parallels between Scottie and Nikola Jokic. Size-wise and position-wise as a result...obviously they differ but the way they see the floor and their skill sets...the offence needs to start and end with them.

Hopefully the next coach figures this out and the front office is able to build around him like the Nuggets are built. No one in Denver argues if the ball needs to be in Murray or Porter's hands like they do in Toronto where it seems like Scottie is 3rd or 4th in the "pecking order".

[vulture]

Last offseason people were comparing Scottie to giannis. This offseason season it’s jokic. Next season it’s gonna be embiid.

He is a combination of all the mvp winners apparently. His invisible skills are so out of this world.

[PhilBlackson]

I can draw a lot of parallels between Scottie and Nikola Jokic. Size-wise and position-wise as a result...obviously they differ but the way they see the floor and their skill sets...the offence needs to start and end with them.

Hopefully the next coach figures this out and the front office is able to build around him like the Nuggets are built. No one in Denver argues if the ball needs to be in Murray or Porter's hands like they do in Toronto where it seems like Scottie is 3rd or 4th in the "pecking order".

I And-1'd you not because I agree with this whole discussion of Scottie being a 1st option vs 3rd option but more so the concept that I've discussed before in the draft thread of using Scottie like Jokic in the offence because really I think some dynamic like that is how Scottie will be the best version of himself, not some traditional or dominant 1st option like Giannis.

Because I don't know what people classify Jokic as but personally even as a back to back MVP, I'm still not sure I see him as your prototypical "1 Option" even though he's shown the ability to takeover when necessary and I'm not saying Scottie can even reach Jokic's level or be the same exact style of play but the offence should imo run something like that and this franchise should find similar weapons to instil a similar type of play that DEN does.

I talked about creating an offence like that if by chance we drafted Keyonte George, let him become the "Murray" in the offence, OG can be Gordon and Pascal while not the floor spacer MP Jr is, still a forward that can get buckets but let Scottie be the decision maker of where the ball should go because like Jokic (but not quite as good), he has the ability to read the court quickly at an elite level. But of course to take him to that MVP level he's going to have to eventually add a jumper which is what separates NJ from him. Scottie has a good post like Jok but that mid & 3 need to get better for him to really reach the height of his potential, where maybe he obviously doesn't shoot as well as Jokic BUT if he has a passable jumper they'll have to respect it and when they do he can use his additional speed/athleticism to get around the basket easier and just be harder to defend.

But I think at the height of Scottie's potential he has to become more Jokic than Giannis. He's simply not as big/long or athletic as Giannis to do what he does but Jokic, I think there's a similar pathway there to make Scottie great with his own added element of fastbreak offence and athleticism going to the rim. Just my 2c but I think Scottie should start with the mid-range/post this next season or two ala Karl Malone and get more feel on his jumper which should still allow his points per game increase then in time hopefully adds that 3, then we might have a superstar on our hands.

I say next year's goals for Scottie should be...

A) make the mid-range/post his bread & butter ala Karl Malone as a scorer but...
B) allow him to be the decision maker of the offence from that mid-range area something like Jokic from the top of the key

...and watch even just allowing those 2 things would take him up to another level.

[mtcan]

I can draw a lot of parallels between Scottie and Nikola Jokic. Size-wise and position-wise as a result...obviously they differ but the way they see the floor and their skill sets...the offence needs to start and end with them.

Hopefully the next coach figures this out and the front office is able to build around him like the Nuggets are built. No one in Denver argues if the ball needs to be in Murray or Porter's hands like they do in Toronto where it seems like Scottie is 3rd or 4th in the "pecking order".

I And-1'd you not because I agree with this whole discussion of Scottie being a 1st option vs 3rd option but more so the concept that I've discussed before in the draft thread of using Scottie like Jokic in the offence because really I think some dynamic like that is how Scottie will be the best version of himself, not some traditional or dominant 1st option like Giannis.

Because I don't know what people classify Jokic as but personally even as a back to back MVP, I'm still not sure I see him as your prototypical "1 Option" even though he's shown the ability to takeover when necessary and I'm not saying Scottie can even reach Jokic's level or be the same exact style of play but the offence should imo run something like that and this franchise should find similar weapons to instil a similar type of play that DEN does.

I talked about creating an offence like that if by chance we drafted Keyonte George, let him become the "Murray" in the offence, OG can be Gordon and Pascal while not the floor spacer MP Jr is, still a forward that can get buckets but let Scottie be the decision maker of where the ball should go because like Jokic (but not quite as good), he has the ability to read the court quickly at an elite level. But of course to take him to that MVP level he's going to have to eventually add a jumper which is what separates NJ from him. Scottie has a good post like Jok but that mid & 3 need to get better for him to really reach the height of his potential, where maybe he obviously doesn't shoot as well as Jokic BUT if he has a passable jumper they'll have to respect it and when they do he can use his additional speed/athleticism to get around the basket easier and just be harder to defend.

But I think at the height of Scottie's potential he has to become more Jokic than Giannis. He's simply not as big/long or athletic as Giannis to do what he does but Jokic, I think there's a similar pathway there to make Scottie great with his own added element of fastbreak offence and athleticism going to the rim. Just my 2c but I think Scottie should start with the mid-range/post this next season or two ala Karl Malone and get more feel on his jumper which should still allow his points per game increase then in time hopefully adds that 3, then we might have a superstar on our hands.

I say next year's goals for Scottie should be...

A) make the mid-range/post his bread & butter ala Karl Malone as a scorer but...
B) allow him to be the decision maker of the offence from that mid-range area something like Jokic from the top of the key

...and watch even just allowing those 2 things would take him up to another level.

He has a long ways to go with respect to becoming more of a threat to score in different ways but once he becomes a threat to drive, shoot and post-up...and then he can spray that ball out to open shooters and have the gravity that guys like Jokic demands...that's the best version of Scottie. His best version of himself has him just outside the key and either being able to hit the mid-range jumper, post-up, take a couple of dribbles back to the 3 if its there or hit a cutter or open shooter.

[PhilBlackson]

As an aside our coaching staff needs to get Scottie to study how AD guarded Steph as an example of how HE should be guarding guards lol (period).

Watch on YouTube

He's gotta start thinking I need to guard like Anthony Davis, not Scottie Pippen. Use length, not his body to pressure.

I know he's not gonna be at AD's level either because of course AD is also bit taller & longer than him. But because the glaring flaw in Scottie's defence is for some reason he feels like he can pressure ANY player handling the ball when he flat out doesn't have the footspeed to do that with quicker guards. Davis put on a clinic of how to defend quicker, faster guards despite the difference in footspeed which is obviously use his length to always make Steph feel like he was close to his airspace and could close distance on a shot attempt, not getting his body into him thinking he can either stay in front of him or pick his pocket like Kawhi. Scottie has to get better at knowing when and how to defend each match up and not always think of "locking down" someone as how Pippen or young Kawhi defended, sometimes when you have length you gotta do what AD, Duncan, Hakeem did and just use your size where they know they can't bully you down into the blocks and your length will be right there on their jumpers when you close out the distance as they rise up.

That one simple adjustment would completely change Scottie's level as a defender if he just understood which matchups required what & applied that better.

[Wise80]

As an aside our coaching staff needs to get Scottie to study how AD guarded Steph as an example of how HE should be guarding guards lol (period).

Watch on YouTube

He's gotta start thinking I need to guard like Anthony Davis, not Scottie Pippen. Use length, not his body to pressure.

I know he's not gonna be at AD's level either because of course AD is also bit taller & longer than him. But because the glaring flaw in Scottie's defence is for some reason he feels like he can pressure ANY player handling the ball when he flat out doesn't have the footspeed to do that with quicker guards. Davis put on a clinic of how to defend quicker, faster guards despite the difference in footspeed which is obviously use his length to always make Steph feel like he was close to his airspace and could close distance on a shot attempt, not getting his body into him thinking he can either stay in front of him or pick his pocket like Kawhi. Scottie has to get better at knowing when and how to defend each match up and not always think of "locking down" someone as how Pippen or young Kawhi defended, sometimes when you have length you gotta do what AD, Duncan, Hakeem did and just use your size where they know they can't bully you down into the blocks and your length will be right there on their jumpers when you close out the distance as they rise up.

That one simple adjustment would completely change Scottie's level as a defender if he just understood which matchups required what & applied that better.

Scottie and Pascal do the same thing. I'm not sure it's the coaching style. I hope it is, but I think it's more that they get lost in the moment and think they can cut everybody off. Those guys get into everybody's chest like they're 6 foot guards. And then they give up a blow by, time and time again. I thought Pascal was going to grow out of it when he was younger, but he never did.

Hopefully we see that change next season.

[HumbleRen]

Utilize Scottie as an off ball roamer on defence like what Draymond does.

It was idiotic for Nurse to have him press up guards 90 feet out.

[HumbleRen]

Watch on YouTube

[Tha Cynic]

The coach was hijacking the offense?

I just look at what Scottie did in the opportunities he was given and it wasn't great. Everyone seemed to agree that he didn't work hard enough in the off-season, Masai included, so I can't see Masai being that upset that Scottie wasn't gift-wrapped the offense.

I think Nurse was fired because he pushed for an extension to avoid lame duck status. But really I can't tell if you're speaking from things you've read/heard on the radio or this is just your interpretation.

You gotta watch the team to understand what happend but il explain below. The coach deploys the players in a system made by him. Nurse enabled Fred to hijack our offense especially during that brutal stretch in november-january where masai repeatedly called it selfish play and where we ultimately lost the season. That’s on the coach. They already had intentions of giving more role to scottie and fred admitted he didnt know about it but he caught on. Communication and execution on it - coach failed. What did you watch this year to make you think Scottie was given a prominent role in the offense? He wasn’t. He had a tough start but then came on. Young players need defined roles. Not free flowing. Works with vets with continuity not young players. Scottie will get that role next season.

Nurse was fired for a variety of reasons. Lack of culture, systems, accountability and player development. Masai would gladly extend him if those were all check marks. They werent. Thus why he was fired. The ceiling of this team depends on Scottie. They aren’t going to stunt his growth with another season like last one where he doesnt have a bigger role. Doesnt take much to realize that.

You're getting this backwards. Scotty was given more freedom and more chances to create at the exact time that our offense was a mess.

Our offense significantly improved after the poetl trade. When scotty's freedom and chances to create became more limited.

The offensive freedom and "not stunting scotty's growth" is what made the first half of the season such a mess. As we go into a more structured offense....scotty will have LESS chances to create.

Scotty even said it in his exit interview. He likes playing for nurse because of the freedom. That freedom is going to DECREASE, not increase....as our offense becomes more structured.

OG and Scotty are the players who benefit from the unstructured offense. They get a chance to create. Fred and poetl are the ones who benefit from more structure because they are more traditional offensive players. You seem to think it's the opposite if I understand you correctly.

In other words...what you want for scotty (not stunting his growth) is exactly what we got the first half of this season. It appears we are now pivoting towards more structure (which is what Fred wanted all season long).

We're going in a more fred-heavy direction by implementing structure. A scotty-growth direction would be less structure, which we all watched fail.

You think more freedom in the offense allowed Barnes to have more freedom in the offense? You're forgetting that more freedom means Van Vleet gets to do whatever he wants to do more than anyone else while Barnes will typically try to get everyone involved. Meaning if Van Vleet decided this team is better off with him shooting the ball more and taking more isos, other players aren't touching the ball unless Van Vleet says so. At the end of the day, that's why people mocked hierarchy.

Everyone understands that Van Vleet and Siakam are the most refined basketball players on the team as veterans who haven been through it all and are now in the middle and maybe even later stages of their prime. But, when you hit your ceiling with those players, you sometimes have to move away from that and hope something else raises that ceiling. Maybe you suffer more at the beginning but the hope is that less hijacking helps others on the team grow. Maybe the bench learns a different style of game.

What you explained is what some of Van Vleet's biggest supporters cooked up to defend Van Vleet who is known for hijacking the offense, which is very clear when you watch him play.

More structure means Van Vleet may have less freedom to think with the ball and more direction he has to follow.

[Tha Cynic]

So if Nurse just gave Scottie high volume touches he would have produced better offense for himself and the team last year?

Maybe, maybe not, but you're missing the forest for the trees. Burning trees.

[Tha Cynic]

Last offseason people were comparing Scottie to giannis. This offseason season it’s jokic. Next season it’s gonna be embiid.

He is a combination of all the mvp winners apparently. His invisible skills are so out of this world.

We also had people compare him to Thad Young and Boris Diaw.

Seems like when you have varying opinions from people who can't predict the future, you may get varying opinions.

What it most likely comes to is one side thinking no improvements are possible, while another thinks a lot of improvements will happen. In the end no one knows, but you have to try something different because this team has reached its ceiling with this core.

[DemHeavyHands]

Watch on YouTube

Ahhh ****, here we go again. Summer time runs and workout vids can’t wait lol

Scottie pulling up for 3s tho

Looks like he’s playing with some of his old fsu teammates vs the final four FAU team

[Boogie!]

As an aside our coaching staff needs to get Scottie to study how AD guarded Steph as an example of how HE should be guarding guards lol (period).

Watch on YouTube

He's gotta start thinking I need to guard like Anthony Davis, not Scottie Pippen. Use length, not his body to pressure.

I know he's not gonna be at AD's level either because of course AD is also bit taller & longer than him. But because the glaring flaw in Scottie's defence is for some reason he feels like he can pressure ANY player handling the ball when he flat out doesn't have the footspeed to do that with quicker guards. Davis put on a clinic of how to defend quicker, faster guards despite the difference in footspeed which is obviously use his length to always make Steph feel like he was close to his airspace and could close distance on a shot attempt, not getting his body into him thinking he can either stay in front of him or pick his pocket like Kawhi. Scottie has to get better at knowing when and how to defend each match up and not always think of "locking down" someone as how Pippen or young Kawhi defended, sometimes when you have length you gotta do what AD, Duncan, Hakeem did and just use your size where they know they can't bully you down into the blocks and your length will be right there on their jumpers when you close out the distance as they rise up.

That one simple adjustment would completely change Scottie's level as a defender if he just understood which matchups required what & applied that better.

Jakob poeltl already clarified that nick nurses defense encourages them to be aggressive and put themselves in "bad" positions because they're supposed to trust other players to cover. It's been discussed already. Nick nurses defense was designed to be overly aggressive to force turnovers... sure scottie may not be a great individual defender but the way they played defense was by design and if Scottie was picking up Ben Simmons at the 3 point line instead of leaving him wide open or at least giving him space like most other teams, then you can bet it was by design and Nurse didn't care if he got blown by.

[PhilBlackson]

Watch on YouTube

Ahhh ****, here we go again. Summer time runs and workout vids can’t wait lol

Scottie pulling up for 3s tho

Looks like he’s playing with some of his old fsu teammates vs the final four FAU team

Scottie ain't getting me hype again with his Amir Johnson "Summer 3s" lol

I need to see him bury some jumpers EARLY in season before I buy anymore Summer of Scottie moments. Of course every time you watch these flashes it's drollworthy. But I need to see them happen on a NBA court in a real game and not during some half assed run or training season.

Which also doesn't mean I'm hating on seeing him work lol we all love watching his (hopeful) progression but I'm just not getting too excited by anything until maybe the 2nd month or so into the season and if Scottie really does look like he's taken a step not only against pylons but real NBA players. Lord knows I'm rooting for the Young GROAT.

[dTox]

I do hope Scottie invests in a new trainer this summer, someone like Drew Hanlen or equivalent, not the guy he grew up with, who's only other clients are other FSU guys

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[HumbleRen]

I do hope Scottie invests in a new trainer this summer, someone like Drew Hanlen or equivalent, not the guy he grew up with, who's only other clients are other FSU guys

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Needs to invest in himself. Keeping it loyal is great but that ain’t taking you to the Tatum and Ant Edwards of the worlds.