Bucks Offseason Thread - Trade, news, re-tool discussion

[German Athens]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

[Xanadu]

Also what is Malik Monks contract situation. Because I would be all over trying to get him. Lonnie Walker is also someone i would love to grab. Think he still has a lot of untapped potential.

[Xanadu]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

Idk I am not really in love with FVV. Especially at any kind of large long contract. The guy is not really elite at anything. Streaky shooter with mid tier creation ability. Good not great passer and too small to be top tier defensively. If I am wrong please lmk.

[raferfenix]

I am also starting to warm to the idea of Simons for Middleton straight up.

Blazers are talking about trading #3 but if they keep it and want to keep Dame happy maybe they go for something like this?

I’m not clear how much of an upgrade they’d view Middleton at this point is the big question. Bucks taking on Nurkic’s nasty deal would help some.

Whether Portland would take Scoot or Williams would impact whether they’d be at all interested in this too.

[Xanadu]

I am also starting to warm to the idea of Simons for Middleton straight up.

Blazers are talking about trading #3 but if they keep it and want to keep Dame happy maybe they go for something like this?

I’m not clear how much of an upgrade they’d view Middleton at this point is the big question. Bucks taking on Nurkic’s nasty deal would help some.

Whether Portland would take Scoot or Williams would impact whether they’d be at all interested in this too.

I am really hoping that the Hornets take Miller leaving Scoot as the Blazers only option aside from trading the pick. I mean Middleton is a theoretically perfect fit for them when healthy. But if they want Jrue instead then I would want additional value with Simons.

[raferfenix]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

Anyone know the context to this?

FVV being close with Aj could legitimately be a thing.

Certainly an interesting time for Fred to be championing someone going to UW especially after a deadline where he reportedly almost became a Buck.

Read on Twitter

[aboveAverage]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

Idk I am not really in love with FVV. Especially at any kind of large long contract. The guy is not really elite at anything. Streaky shooter with mid tier creation ability. Good not great passer and too small to be top tier defensively. If I am wrong please lmk.

Same here. I just don't understand the love for FVV.

[raferfenix]

I am really hoping that the Hornets take Miller leaving Scoot as the Blazers only option aside from trading the pick. I mean Middleton is a theoretically perfect fit for them when healthy. But if they want Jrue instead then I would want additional value with Simons.

Holiday does seem like an ideal backcourt mate to Dame whichever team it’d be on. Idk how good of a fit Simons would be for us without Jrue flanking him though, so as you write what else they’d include would be key.

Portland could be willing to roll the dice on a massive contract for Middleton given Dame’s timeline. Their defense would be so suspect is the problem they’d need to solve somehow.

[German Athens]

From Nekias last year on FVV. His numbers came down after this article, but his strengths and weaknesses are still highlighted.

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/amp/making-all-star-case-fred-vanvleet-toronto-raptors

[German Athens]

I think the simons Jrue trade is tricky, but the template may be thybulle and a first or two coming our way in the deal, too.

[German Athens]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

Idk I am not really in love with FVV. Especially at any kind of large long contract. The guy is not really elite at anything. Streaky shooter with mid tier creation ability. Good not great passer and too small to be top tier defensively. If I am wrong please lmk.

I think he’s a pretty elite point of attack defender. He navigates screens really well to stay attached. He’s got quick, strong hands. Kinda like Jrue, his strong core allows him to guard a little larger guys in the post.

He’s not as switchable as Jrue, and isn’t as good of an overall defender, but he’s definitely as asset on that end. Also, much like Jrue, he’s an EPM darling just to a lesser degree.

On the other end, he’s a steady, high-iq, ballhandler who rarely turns it over. We could use that. His three point shooting is streaky, but outside this past year - he’s been a plus shooter on really high volume. Considering the assets I’d think it would take to get him - he’s a pretty easy take for me.

[Xanadu]

I just hope we’re tampering away right now. It would be such a benefit to us to convince FVV to opt-in and get traded our way.

Idk I am not really in love with FVV. Especially at any kind of large long contract. The guy is not really elite at anything. Streaky shooter with mid tier creation ability. Good not great passer and too small to be top tier defensively. If I am wrong please lmk.

I think he’s a pretty elite point of attack defender. He navigates screens really well to stay attached. He’s got quick, strong hands. Kinda like Jrue, his strong core allows him to guard a little larger guys in the post.

He’s not as switchable as Jrue, and isn’t as good of an overall defender, but he’s definitely as asset on that end. Also, much like Jrue, he’s an EPM darling just to a lesser degree.

On the other end, he’s a steady, high-iq, ballhandler who rarely turns it over. We could use that. His three point shooting is streaky, but outside this past year - he’s been a plus shooter on really high volume. Considering the assets I’d think it would take to get him - he’s a pretty easy take for me.

Yeah but as i said his size keeps him from being a true high value defender. Also his offensive skills are just not what we are missing imo. Yeah he is a steady mistake free Pg which would be nice. But i think you can obtain similar players without giving up near as much. Guys like Tyus Jones or Monte Morris. But if we are giving up Middleton or Jrue we need to get elite shot creation in return or at least the potential for it. Giannis needs a end of game mid range space creator to pair with imo.

[Ron Swanson]

- Bobby to Brooklyn for Dorian Finney-Smith

- Pat/Grayson/Marjon/2029 pick swap for Anfernee Simons

- Re-sign Brook and Crowder with bird rights

- Gorgui Dieng, Damion Lee, & Pat Bev on vet minimums

Simons/Beverly
Jrue/Lee/AJ Green
Middleton/DFS
Giannis/Crowder
Brook/Dieng

That's an expensive as hell roster but I still haven't seen the details breaking down the exact year we'd have to be under the 2nd tax apron, so just load up now for a 2-year window then be prepared to dump a whole lot of salary in the 2025 offseason when all those guys except for Simons (and hopefully Giannis) will be expirings.

[emunney]

Just went back and watched both game 4 & 5 meltdowns for the first time since live. Absolutely criminal non-use of timeouts to stop the hemorrhaging, but there are also levels of stupid that no coach can cure. I still just cannot fathom rolling with Jrue next year as a primary ballhandler. I said it after the game and I still feel like I can never trust him again. He's a great player and I think you can get great value for him-- I would capitalize on that. All-Star, All-Defense, dream teammate, cash in and wish him well. He shrinks and loses his senses, has been bailed out by big shots and Giannis having the catch radius of a pterodactyl.

I just don't think it's easy to bring a better ball handler in. Lillard will cost a leg and an arm (if Portland are at all willing to sell), has a gigantic contract that will sour quickly and also struggles in the availability department. CP3 is fading quickly, his availability is even more questionable and matching him would require us to give up a significant piece even if his trade value is low. FVV is one then one of the next best options, but he's out of contract (PO). Maybe you can convince him/Toronto to opt-in, trade and extend?

There's multiple options to me. Maybe the new coach figures a way to play better through Giannis. I still feel like we're not utilizing him well enough. Maybe we find a lesser player who can't break down a defense but is actually a good ball handler a la Tyus Jones, Marcus Smart, etc. Or maybe we roll on someone with the theoretical ability to create for himself and others, but who has not shown the consistency. That's maybe Poole (who put up big stats in Curry's absence as the primary handler). Or Sexton (although I'm really low on small PGs).

The issue with someone like Tyus Jones is that he’s not really enough of a scoring threat to really want him handling the ball a ton. Tyus replacing Jrue would just mean more Giannis and Khris ball handling IMO.

Likewise with Smart. Sexton is enough of a scoring threat but probably not the playmaker you want. There’s a world in which Poole could be but he’s probably as likely if not more likely than Jrue to turn it over and he’s obviously in a different stratosphere defensively.

If we’re trying to get better next season (rather than taking a step back while getting younger), I think the key is adding a ball handler like Tyus Jones while keeping Jrue, Khris, and Giannis. That would allow each of them to pick their spots more and have someone like Jones on the floor with them that they’d trust to make smart decisions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tyus would be a Conley-style game manager for us. He would be worth getting just for his post-entry passing. He just quickly gets the ball where it needs to go. Obviously he's not a great player, but we'd be a lot better off starting him than Grayson, who I think is solid, but we need much less than a poised ball handler who can get us organized when the chips are down.

He had a really bad series shooting the ball against the Lakers, and I could see them being open to moving him.

[raferfenix]

Agree that the appeal of FVV is radically different if he’d be coming in to be our 4th or 5th best guy vs a replacement for Holiday or Middleton.

Fred’s contract demands are why he could be available for cheaper than he’d be otherwise in a trade. But that’s also where the Bucks’ decision about how crazy we want our salary structure to get comes into the equation.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah I really only have interest in Van Vleet if you're bringing him in to move Jrue to SG, not as his replacement. We've probably fielded one of the worst playoff backcourts of any contending team the last several years (Jrue/Donte/Teague/Grayson/Hill/Carter) and the quickest/best way to upgrade the roster is to fix that.

[jakecronus8]

If Portland wont move Lillard, I'm much more interested in seeing what it takes to get the 3rd pick (assuming it's Scoot). If it's a middleton centric package I'm all over it.

[emunney]

I'd be a lot more excited about getting the 3rd pick if I felt it'd been adequately explained how Brandon Miller wasn't an accessory to murder.

[raferfenix]

If the Bucks go all in this season, do we know what firsts we'll be able to trade during the 2024 draft?

I'm not clear anymore due to the new CBA restrictions (or when those go into effect).

Previously my understanding was we could trade our 2024 pick right after we make it (satisfying the stepien rule and New Orleans swap rights) along with a 2028 swap, 2029 first, 2030 swap, and a 2031 first.

Three firsts + two swaps + Middleton or Holiday or other salary slots seems like a solid package to help us reload.

But if we'd need to stay under the 2nd apron to offer it that could change up our tact resigning our own guys and / or going after FVV contract be damned.

[raferfenix]

Let's say the Bucks aren't scared off with the 2nd apron or spending absurd amounts in luxury tax.

Why else deal with the likes of Jimmy Haslam after all.

2023 offseason:

- Hire Nurse.
- Trade Bobby + Allen for FVV who we extend after reuniting with Nurse.
- Extend Khris.
- Extend Brook.
- Extend whatever combo of Ingles / Wes / Carter / Crowder we wanna keep.

PG: FVV
SG: Holiday, MarJon
SF: Middleton, Connaughton
PF: Giannis
C: Lopez

Maintain as many big salary slots as we can. Hope Middleton does better after an offseason without surgery.

Then at the 2024 draft we could shake up the roster more substantially after seeing how adding FVV and Nurse to the equation worked out.

That would be as opposed to trading Khris on the cheap this offseason much less letting him walk for nothing.