Was 2011 Wade better than LeBron that year? Where would he rank today?

[Shewasfly]

A Dallas mavericks fan and a bunch of LeBron stans hating on Wade?!? Color me shocked.
Could not have seen that coming, truly.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Dallas fans would have never forgiven Carlisle and Casey if Wade had been able to lead Miami to victory in 2011 which he very well could have. They could have handled Lebron beating them, but Wade again? After what he did in 2006 and all the **** he talked about Dirk? We'd have never gotten over it.

I'm not over it! It was the most frustrating series I ever saw to this day. It's all well and good for a team to focus their energy on Lebron, and for them to think Wade couldn't beat them (although as I said, think that is exaggerated in hindsight because of how poorly Lebron played), but if in a couple of those games rather than having an abysmal performance Lebron just had a below average one, the outcome would have been different and that strategy would have been terrible in hindsight. I don't know, the stars aligned so that the universe would be balanced or something.

On topic, I have the extremely hot take that Wade and Lebron were very close that year, Lebron being slightly better, but Wade was mentally more prepared for the playoffs. I think Wade would be a top 3-5 player in the league today.

I agree its closer than most people would say if they didn't watch that season. I did want to add though, Wade was arguably as bad as LeBron was vs the Mavs in the Bulls series, and if Bosh hadn't stepped up and the Bulls hadn't been so offensively inept, that actually could have been the end of the season (was a much closer series than the 4-1 indicates).

Overall that team was just extremely flawed, ironically enough if they had started the Bosh shift to center that season instead of the next I think they might have had enough to overcome those flaws and win a title regardless of Wade/LeBron struggles with fit. But then you have to wonder if LeBron dedicates himself the way he does and crushes the league the next two seasons, so who knows.

To answer the thread, LeBron was overall better but with an asterisk, you can't overlook the Mavs final when it was by far and away the most important games of the season. And regardless of what Dallas did, LeBron beat himself more than anything in that series. Although I do think to this day people don't acknowledge just how horrible the combination of Joel Anthony, zombie Ilgauskas and Dampier was at center, not to mention Bibby eating backup point guard minutes, and Mike Miller being near useless after having missed almost the whole season with injury. Just a very flawed team with not near enough shooting when your two best players are slashers. The only saving grace to 2011 besides potentially being a catalyst for LeBron's improvements as a player, is it shifted perception where people didn't view that team the way they do the 2017/2018 Warriors. For the most part I see people crediting the '12 and '13 Heat as legitimate champions, whereas the salt is endless for the '17 and '18 Warriors, maybe rightfully so but that's a whole other topic.

As far as where that Wade would rank in today's league, probably competing for the best player, somewhere in top 3. Definitely no lower than top 5. With the shift in the game, the emphasis on 3-point shooting doesn't necessarily benefit him directly, but because of pace and the way the floor is spaced, he'd still probably dominate just in different ways (more layups/dunks).

[TheLand13]

Don't use the Finals numbers without understanding that Dallas focused their entire defense on Lebron and let Wade go believing he wasn't good enough to beat them, but that Lebron was.

This has been debunked many times over with actual footage. You repeating it 1000 times won’t make it fact. It just makes you a serial liar.

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?

Lol false. Wade was being mainly guarded by Stevenson, Matrix,and some Kidd but saw practically ever perimeter defender and torched them all. He saw multiple double and triple teams throughout the series literally any time he had the ball in the post (especially when Kidd was on him), please stop trying re-writing history. I've watched that series multiple times, Wade was just dissecting Mavs zone defense like a surgeon, zigzaging through the lane, finishing and posterizing Chandler and whoever. Lebron choked and Wade greatly outperformed him and that's fine, no need for revisionist history.

You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

[Djoker]

Lebron and Wade in 2011 were 1a/1b, very tough to discern. Both definitely on the same tier.

Today I think 2011 Wade would be a top 5 player for sure with a case for #1.

[HeartBreakKid]

Don't use the Finals numbers without understanding that Dallas focused their entire defense on Lebron and let Wade go believing he wasn't good enough to beat them, but that Lebron was.

This has been debunked many times over with actual footage. You repeating it 1000 times won’t make it fact. It just makes you a serial liar.

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?

Lol false. Wade was being mainly guarded by Stevenson, Matrix,and some Kidd but saw practically ever perimeter defender and torched them all. He saw multiple double and triple teams throughout the series literally any time he had the ball in the post (especially when Kidd was on him), please stop trying re-writing history. I've watched that series multiple times, Wade was just dissecting Mavs zone defense like a surgeon, zigzaging through the lane, finishing and posterizing Chandler and whoever. Lebron choked and Wade greatly outperformed him and that's fine, no need for revisionist history.

You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

What does Mark Cuban have to do with anything?

There is a video of all of Wade's field goals and assist posted on the first page and he seems appropriately guarded for a go-to scorer. '

People think that only one player can demand a double team on a team. Teams have enough fire power to guard two great scorers without leaving the other one off the hook. If that wasn't the case then teams would guard a go-to scorer with a bunch of scrubs the exact same way that they would guard that player when he has a big 3, which isn't true.

[TheLand13]

What does Mark Cuban have to do with anything?

What does one of the most involved NBA owners in the league have to do with anything? Is this a serious question?

There is a video of all of Wade's field goals and assist posted on the first page and he seems appropriately guarded for a go-to scorer. '

Yeah, it's one video out of six games posted. And we still see a lot of single coverage and the defense collapsing only when Wade chooses to be aggressive.

When LeBron got the ball at the top of the key (or at any point really), the defense would already shift to formation to make sure he didn't have a clear pathway to the paint. That's not how Dallas was defending Wade.

People think that only one player can demand a double team on a team. Teams have enough fire power to guard two great scorers without leaving the other one off the hook. If that wasn't the case then teams would guard a go-to scorer with a bunch of scrubs the exact same way that they would guard that player when he has a big 3, which isn't true.

Except double and triple teams are not the only way you can have an entire defense guard one player.

The Mavericks, just like literally every other team out there, knows that double teaming (or even triple teaming) LeBron is a terrible idea. But the truth of the matter is that they rarely ever double teamed regardless. They ran a zone defense specifically designed around clogging up the paint whenever LeBron had the ball.

Again, what the other person claims happened most certainly did not happen. Wade was not double teamed (or triple teamed, in fact I'm pretty sure that never once happened at any point in the series). Defenses collapsed on him when he already had sufficient room to create his own shot in the paint. When LeBron had the ball, Dallas shifted their defense immediately to make him pass out or try to beat them himself, and it usually resulted in LeBron just staying put out at the perimeter not knowing what to do.

[Eagle4]

Don't use the Finals numbers without understanding that Dallas focused their entire defense on Lebron and let Wade go believing he wasn't good enough to beat them, but that Lebron was.

This has been debunked many times over with actual footage. You repeating it 1000 times won’t make it fact. It just makes you a serial liar.

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?

Lol false. Wade was being mainly guarded by Stevenson, Matrix,and some Kidd but saw practically ever perimeter defender and torched them all. He saw multiple double and triple teams throughout the series literally any time he had the ball in the post (especially when Kidd was on him), please stop trying re-writing history. I've watched that series multiple times, Wade was just dissecting Mavs zone defense like a surgeon, zigzaging through the lane, finishing and posterizing Chandler and whoever. Lebron choked and Wade greatly outperformed him and that's fine, no need for revisionist history.

You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Yh your statement is complete and utterly bull. Luckily we don't need to just go off biased Lebron homers and there's actually footage to review. As you can see, Mavs sent an extra defender practically every time Wade got the ball or saw a wall in front of him just like Bron, difference is Wade like Butler doesn't get deterred easily and kept the pedal to the medal and due to his smaller, quicker frame was able to slither and manuever his way through the zone better than Lebron's behemoth frame. If you're blind then just say.

[TheLand13]

This has been debunked many times over with actual footage. You repeating it 1000 times won’t make it fact. It just makes you a serial liar.

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?

Lol false. Wade was being mainly guarded by Stevenson, Matrix,and some Kidd but saw practically ever perimeter defender and torched them all. He saw multiple double and triple teams throughout the series literally any time he had the ball in the post (especially when Kidd was on him), please stop trying re-writing history. I've watched that series multiple times, Wade was just dissecting Mavs zone defense like a surgeon, zigzaging through the lane, finishing and posterizing Chandler and whoever. Lebron choked and Wade greatly outperformed him and that's fine, no need for revisionist history.

You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Yh your statement is complete and utterly bull. As you can see, Mavs sent an extra defender practically every time Wade got the ball.

Buddy, what videos are you watching?

These are the first three plays from the first video:

First play: Wade is given single coverage on a basic post up and gets the easy shot.

Second play: Wade is given single coverage again, until they decide to double on a SWITCH, which ends up going poorly anyways because Wade just passes to the open man.

Third play: Again, single coverage on the post-up, goes right into the paint where he forces them to collapse and passes out to an open James.

You said every single time Wade posted up, he got double teamed. You are full of ****.

I was going to stop there but I decided to keep watching. Let's have some fun with this shall we?

Fourth play: ONCE AGAIN, Wade is given single coverage and most of the defense isn't paying attention to him at all. He splits past Kidd and Marion who wasn't even in the play for an easy bucket. No double team.

Fifth play: fastbreak, doesn't matter.

Sixth play: Again, single coverage, gets off a very easy shot on a collapsed defense that is way too late to react.

Seventh play: **** Jason Terry of all people is guarding Wade here. Wade easily gets right past him and gets an open layup.

Eighth play: Wade gets the ball TWICE here and at no point is an extra defender sent to help. Kidd provides single coverage the entire time and offers no resistance on a wide open three from Wade.

Next two plays are fast breaks.

Ninth play: It took half the video for a double team to finally occur (Edit: Completely forgot about the second play, and that was on a switch). Wade is in the post, Stevenson comes over to provide help, swipes at the ball and then... he just runs away. Wait what? So a double team occurred for half of a second and then the help defender immediately abandoned the assignment. As soon as he ran away, Wade charged into the paint and got an easy bucket. That was the one and only time so far we saw double teaming occur and they didn't even commit to it.

Tenth play: WHERE IS THE DOUBLE TEAM? Wade gets a new defender on a switch, and then an additional defender tries to draw a foul. Wade notices this and just passes to the open man. No double team.

You know what I'm not continuing with this. We went through ten plays of Wade scoring/assisting to other players and not a single instance of double teaming occurs except for ONE (EDIT: Again, two, I don't know why I keep forgetting about the second play), and that lasted a grand total of .5 seconds before the defender randomly decided he didn't want to do it anymore and ran away.

I'm starting to think you guys don't know what a double team actually is. A defense collapsing on a player is not double teaming, especially when the primary defender out at the perimeter is already lost. Do not waste my time with such nonsense again.

[Eagle4]

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?



You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Yh your statement is complete and utterly bull. As you can see, Mavs sent an extra defender practically every time Wade got the ball.

Buddy, what videos are you watching?

These are the first three plays from the first video:

First play: Wade is given single coverage on a basic post up and gets the easy shot.

Second play: Wade is given single coverage again, until they decide to double on a SWITCH, which ends up going poorly anyways because Wade just passes to the open man.

Third play: Again, single coverage on the post-up, goes right into the paint where he forces them to collapse and passes out to an open James.

You said every single time Wade posted up, he got double teamed. You are full of ****.

I was going to stop there but I decided to keep watching. Let's have some fun with this shall we?

Fourth play: ONCE AGAIN, Wade is given single coverage and most of the defense isn't paying attention to him at all. He splits past Kidd and Marion who wasn't even in the play for an easy bucket. No double team.

Fifth play: fastbreak, doesn't matter.

Sixth play: Again, single coverage, gets off a very easy shot on a collapsed defense that is way too late to react.

Seventh play: **** Jason Terry of all people is guarding Wade here. Wade easily gets right past him and gets an open layup.

Eighth play: Wade gets the ball TWICE here and at no point is an extra defender sent to help. Kidd provides single coverage the entire time and offers no resistance on a wide open three from Wade.

Next two plays are fast breaks.

Ninth play: It took half the video for a double team to finally occur (Edit: Completely forgot about the second play, and that was on a switch). Wade is in the post, Stevenson comes over to provide help, swipes at the ball and then... he just runs away. Wait what? So a double team occurred for half of a second and then the help defender immediately abandoned the assignment. As soon as he ran away, Wade charged into the paint and got an easy bucket. That was the one and only time so far we saw double teaming occur and they didn't even commit to it.

Tenth play: WHERE IS THE DOUBLE TEAM? Wade gets a new defender on a switch, and then an additional defender tries to draw a foul. Wade notices this and just passes to the open man. No double team.

You know what I'm not continuing with this. We went through ten plays of Wade scoring/assisting to other players and not a single instance of double teaming occurs except for ONE (EDIT: Again, two, I don't know why I keep forgetting about the second play), and that lasted a grand total of .5 seconds before the defender randomly decided he didn't want to do it anymore and ran away.

I'm starting to think you guys don't know what a double team actually is. A defense collapsing on a player is not double teaming, especially when the primary defender out at the perimeter is already lost. Do not waste my time with such nonsense again.

You have no clue what you're talking about. If we going by that first video, you stated Wade received single coverage. That's false, almost each time he caught the ball in the post a secondary defender came to help.

:34 double team came
:40 Marion and Chandler come to help but Wade scores
1:36 HEAR WHAT BREEN SAYS. WADE MANUEVERING THROUGH THE DALLAS DEFENSE

2:20 again you see Terry and Chandler come to contest. How is that single coverage, so what you're saying is 2 other defender coming over to your contest a shot is normal single coverage and would have the same effect (particularly mentally) as if Kidd was purely on Wade the whole possession and the other defenders stayed at home? Get real.

2:32 Triple team AS SOON AS HE GOT THE BALL

and so forth . The rest of his points were fast breaks, put backs just being an absolute menace.



The defense collapsing and a zone being formed to wall him in is essentially MULTIPLE defenders trying their best to prevent Wade's attack but he was always too elusive and slithery to be stopped. No "single coverage" by any stretch.

Again you have no clue what you're talking about. Just arguing semantics.

Somehow you Lebron stans just can't get over Wade outperforming your frozen one competing against the exact same defense but it happened. It will always be a huge stain on his resume. Deal with it.

[Eagle4]

Watch on YouTube

I had to go watch Lebron's 8pt lowlights, going by these responses you'd think Dallas sent all 5 defenders towards James each time he caught the ball. He too saw multiple double teams at times and obviously zoned up. However, there were plenty times also where he'd have midgets of the likes of Kidd and Barea in front of him and he'd instantly just pass it out. One player was aggressive and dominant the other was passive and clearly shook in the moment. That's the only difference between Wade/Bron '11 Finals.

[TheLand13]

You have no clue what you're talking about. If we going by that first video, you stated Wade received single coverage. That's false, almost each time he caught the ball in the post a secondary defender came to help.

I really should just ignore you at this point, but I'll play along.

:34 double team came

We already acknowledged this one but the problem with your logic is that this is off of a switch, not because Wade had the ball. Double team off high switches are very common.

:40 Marion and Chandler come to help but Wade scores

Bro, Marion and Chandler aren't anywhere close to Wade when he takes his shot attempt. In fact neither of them bothered putting a hand up because they were so far away that it didn't matter. Wade received single coverage this entire play. Don't bull **** me.

1:36 HEAR WHAT BREEN SAYS. WADE MANUEVERING THROUGH THE DALLAS DEFENSE

Yeah, and watch what is happening. Single coverage on Kidd, he loses him, single coverage on Chandler, he scores on him. At no point is he double teamed.

How long have you been watching basketball for? You're saying a guy out at the top of the key getting blown by on defense and then the offensive player being met with resistance after the fact at the rim is a double team. No it's not, that's one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.

2:20 again you see Terry and Chandler come to contest. How is that single coverage, so what you're saying is 2 other defender coming over to your contest a shot is normal single coverage and would have the same effect (particularly mentally) as if Kidd was purely on Wade the whole possession and the other defenders stayed at home? Get real.

Wade didn't even know Terry was contesting his shot and to be frank, calling it a contest is being kind. Again, I don't think you understand what a double team is if you're choosing to count that. The whole point of a double team is that you are cutting off someone's path to the hoop or impacting their ability to make a play. A coach would immediately sit you for an entire game if you called that a legitimate double team.

2:32 Triple team AS SOON AS HE GOT THE BALL

I'm starting to think I'm getting trolled.

I'm going to assume the three people you are referring to are Terry, Chandler, and Dirk.

Terry: Not even close to Wade, as Wade loses him almost immediately and at that point, Terry is out of the play completely.

Dirk: Is literally on the other side of the basket and not in the play at all.

Chandler: He is the only one who is actually there to contest, and he ends up fouling Wade.

This is single coverage. No one in their right mind would ever call this a triple team.

The defense collapsing and a zone being formed to wall him in is essentially MULTIPLE defenders trying their best to prevent Wade's attack but he was always too elusive and slithery to be stopped. No "single coverage" by any stretch.

Except no wall is being formed at any point. You just laid it out yourself for us all to see. Every time Wade beat his man, only a single player provided help after the fact. There's no such wall to speak of here. Why? Because they weren't worried about Wade getting his points. They were willing to live with that. Again, this is outlined by Cuban himself.

Again ,learn what single coverage and double teaming are. You sound like you don't even have a basic understanding of how basketball works. Here, maybe this can help you.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ATTACKBball

Again you have no clue what you're talking about. Just arguing semantics.

No I'm not. You're trying to claim something that isn't double teaming is double teaming. I can't help it if you don't understand the basics of the sport.

Somehow you Lebron stans just can't get over Wade outperforming your frozen one competing against the exact same defense but it happened. It will always be a huge stain on his resume. Deal with it.

[/quote]

Now you're trying to argue that this is a case of me being a LeBron stan? Just when I thought your logic couldn't get any worse. Buddy, I'm one of the guys who frequently **** on LeBron the most about that series. It's the entire reason I don't consider him the GOAT and never will. Just when I thought your post couldn't get any stupider, you pull this out of your ass. Anyone who actually watched this series knows that Dallas had an entire defensive scheme dedicated to slowing down LeBron, not Wade. This isn't difficult to see just by paying attention to how Dallas constructs its defense. If you can't understand that, then it's clear I'm wasting my time.

Off to the ignore list you go. I expect low IQ takes like these on GB but not here.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Spoiler:

This has never been debunked, if anything we've gotten more evidence supporting it as time went on. Hell, Mark Cuban himself has admitted that Dallas focused their entire defensive scheme around slowing down LeBron. All they did with Wade was provide single coverage on him. You can't be serious with this statement can you?



You've watched the series multiple times? No you haven't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said the bolded part. It's a well known fact that Dallas frequently provided single coverage on Wade and were willing to live with letting him beat them.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Yh your statement is complete and utterly bull. As you can see, Mavs sent an extra defender practically every time Wade got the ball.

Buddy, what videos are you watching?

These are the first three plays from the first video:

First play: Wade is given single coverage on a basic post up and gets the easy shot.

Second play: Wade is given single coverage again, until they decide to double on a SWITCH, which ends up going poorly anyways because Wade just passes to the open man.

Third play: Again, single coverage on the post-up, goes right into the paint where he forces them to collapse and passes out to an open James.

You said every single time Wade posted up, he got double teamed. You are full of ****.

I was going to stop there but I decided to keep watching. Let's have some fun with this shall we?

Fourth play: ONCE AGAIN, Wade is given single coverage and most of the defense isn't paying attention to him at all. He splits past Kidd and Marion who wasn't even in the play for an easy bucket. No double team.

Fifth play: fastbreak, doesn't matter.

Sixth play: Again, single coverage, gets off a very easy shot on a collapsed defense that is way too late to react.

Seventh play: **** Jason Terry of all people is guarding Wade here. Wade easily gets right past him and gets an open layup.

Eighth play: Wade gets the ball TWICE here and at no point is an extra defender sent to help. Kidd provides single coverage the entire time and offers no resistance on a wide open three from Wade.

Next two plays are fast breaks.

Ninth play: It took half the video for a double team to finally occur (Edit: Completely forgot about the second play, and that was on a switch). Wade is in the post, Stevenson comes over to provide help, swipes at the ball and then... he just runs away. Wait what? So a double team occurred for half of a second and then the help defender immediately abandoned the assignment. As soon as he ran away, Wade charged into the paint and got an easy bucket. That was the one and only time so far we saw double teaming occur and they didn't even commit to it.

Tenth play: WHERE IS THE DOUBLE TEAM? Wade gets a new defender on a switch, and then an additional defender tries to draw a foul. Wade notices this and just passes to the open man. No double team.

You know what I'm not continuing with this. We went through ten plays of Wade scoring/assisting to other players and not a single instance of double teaming occurs except for ONE (EDIT: Again, two, I don't know why I keep forgetting about the second play), and that lasted a grand total of .5 seconds before the defender randomly decided he didn't want to do it anymore and ran away.

I'm starting to think you guys don't know what a double team actually is. A defense collapsing on a player is not double teaming, especially when the primary defender out at the perimeter is already lost. Do not waste my time with such nonsense again.

The play on the first video at 1:02 is interesting. James starts a drive. Wade's man abandons covering Wade to help on James and close the driving lanes. Even if he was slow and got by three more defenders are in the paint at the basket. Two layers of defense walling James from the paint. All five Mavericks with a foot in the paint to stop James drive when James kicks to Wade who is completely ignored at that moment.

Wade gets pass from James and capitalizes on defender recovering to him drives to hoop and benefits from the defense being about of position to stop James and needing to shift to stop Wade.

Edit. I had to add that "triple team" at 2:32. Wade's defender for whatever reason is fronting Wade way too far from the basket. Chandler and Dirk are out of position to contest. James passes over the top of the defense and there is no one between Wade and the basket. The "triple team" is defense scrambling with no player in position to contest all of them getting there too late. His man is already beat before the "triple team" comes.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I don't have time to analyze all those individual plays right this moment, but what I will say is from memory, my biggest criticism of LeBron in year 1 (besides unwillingness to post up) was he was a bit slower to make decisions than Wade in the halfcourt. Wade arguably dribbled the ball a bit too much at times, but LeBron just straight up waited too long holding it and I understand part of it was trying to set up the offense, but he just wasn't as forceful with his decision making.

In year 2, that changed, and really for the rest of his career (LeBron's that is), he became much more deliberate in his offensive decision making. But I say that to add that just holding the ball against a zone defense is death, the ball needs to be moving to break down a zone. So he was doing Dallas a massive favor by holding it and waiting as he was prone to do that year.

EDIT: Also more of a general offense critique and lack of spacing was probably part of it, but they almost never ran the LeBron/Wade pick and roll in year 1, and it was massively successful the next few years whenever they went to it.

[TheLand13]

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Yh your statement is complete and utterly bull. As you can see, Mavs sent an extra defender practically every time Wade got the ball.

Buddy, what videos are you watching?

These are the first three plays from the first video:

First play: Wade is given single coverage on a basic post up and gets the easy shot.

Second play: Wade is given single coverage again, until they decide to double on a SWITCH, which ends up going poorly anyways because Wade just passes to the open man.

Third play: Again, single coverage on the post-up, goes right into the paint where he forces them to collapse and passes out to an open James.

You said every single time Wade posted up, he got double teamed. You are full of ****.

I was going to stop there but I decided to keep watching. Let's have some fun with this shall we?

Fourth play: ONCE AGAIN, Wade is given single coverage and most of the defense isn't paying attention to him at all. He splits past Kidd and Marion who wasn't even in the play for an easy bucket. No double team.

Fifth play: fastbreak, doesn't matter.

Sixth play: Again, single coverage, gets off a very easy shot on a collapsed defense that is way too late to react.

Seventh play: **** Jason Terry of all people is guarding Wade here. Wade easily gets right past him and gets an open layup.

Eighth play: Wade gets the ball TWICE here and at no point is an extra defender sent to help. Kidd provides single coverage the entire time and offers no resistance on a wide open three from Wade.

Next two plays are fast breaks.

Ninth play: It took half the video for a double team to finally occur (Edit: Completely forgot about the second play, and that was on a switch). Wade is in the post, Stevenson comes over to provide help, swipes at the ball and then... he just runs away. Wait what? So a double team occurred for half of a second and then the help defender immediately abandoned the assignment. As soon as he ran away, Wade charged into the paint and got an easy bucket. That was the one and only time so far we saw double teaming occur and they didn't even commit to it.

Tenth play: WHERE IS THE DOUBLE TEAM? Wade gets a new defender on a switch, and then an additional defender tries to draw a foul. Wade notices this and just passes to the open man. No double team.

You know what I'm not continuing with this. We went through ten plays of Wade scoring/assisting to other players and not a single instance of double teaming occurs except for ONE (EDIT: Again, two, I don't know why I keep forgetting about the second play), and that lasted a grand total of .5 seconds before the defender randomly decided he didn't want to do it anymore and ran away.

I'm starting to think you guys don't know what a double team actually is. A defense collapsing on a player is not double teaming, especially when the primary defender out at the perimeter is already lost. Do not waste my time with such nonsense again.

The play on the first video at 1:02 is interesting. James starts a drive. Wade's man abandons covering Wade to help on James and close the driving lanes. Even if he was slow and got by three more defenders are in the paint at the basket. Two layers of defense walling James from the paint. All five Mavericks with a foot in the paint to stop James drive when James kicks to Wade who is completely ignored at that moment.

Wade gets pass from James and capitalizes on defender recovering to him drives to hoop and benefits from the defense being about of position to stop James and needing to shift to stop Wade.

Edit. I had to add that "triple team" at 2:32. Wade's defender for whatever reason is fronting Wade way too far from the basket. Chandler and Dirk are out of position to contest. James passes over the top of the defense and there is no one between Wade and the basket. The "triple team" is defense scrambling with no player in position to contest all of them getting there too late. His man is already beat before the "triple team" comes.

Right, in other words, this eagle guy has no idea what he's talking about

I don't have time to analyze all those individual plays right this moment, but what I will say is from memory, my biggest criticism of LeBron in year 1 (besides unwillingness to post up) was he was a bit slower to make decisions than Wade in the halfcourt. Wade arguably dribbled the ball a bit too much at times, but LeBron just straight up waited too long holding it and I understand part of it was trying to set up the offense, but he just wasn't as forceful with his decision making.

In year 2, that changed, and really for the rest of his career (LeBron's that is), he became much more deliberate in his offensive decision making. But I say that to add that just holding the ball against a zone defense is death, the ball needs to be moving to break down a zone. So he was doing Dallas a massive favor by holding it and waiting as he was prone to do that year.

EDIT: Also more of a general offense critique and lack of spacing was probably part of it, but they almost never ran the LeBron/Wade pick and roll in year 1, and it was massively successful the next few years whenever they went to it.

I read in an interview that I can't for the life of me find where LeBron pretty much admits that he didn't take the 2010 offseason very seriously like he should have. He spent the first half of it contemplating where he was going (he apparently was really torn about leaving Cleveland) but then after he teamed up with Wade and Bosh, he relaxed and didn't spend as much time as he should have working on his game. More specifically, he regrets not having worked on his jumper but then learned the hard way in that very same series that he lacked a legitimate post game. These were all things he spent a lot of time and effort in the 2011 off season working on heavily. The results spoke for themselves.

[CodeBreaker]

They were neck and neck all season, until the Finals were Wade was clearly above LeBron.
Wade asserting his dominance, showing LeBron how it's done in the biggest stage.

Watch on YouTube

Next season, LeBron took over the team.

[Chosen01]

You have no clue what you're talking about. If we going by that first video, you stated Wade received single coverage. That's false, almost each time he caught the ball in the post a secondary defender came to help.

I really should just ignore you at this point, but I'll play along.

:34 double team came

We already acknowledged this one but the problem with your logic is that this is off of a switch, not because Wade had the ball. Double team off high switches are very common.

:40 Marion and Chandler come to help but Wade scores

Bro, Marion and Chandler aren't anywhere close to Wade when he takes his shot attempt. In fact neither of them bothered putting a hand up because they were so far away that it didn't matter. Wade received single coverage this entire play. Don't bull **** me.

1:36 HEAR WHAT BREEN SAYS. WADE MANUEVERING THROUGH THE DALLAS DEFENSE

Yeah, and watch what is happening. Single coverage on Kidd, he loses him, single coverage on Chandler, he scores on him. At no point is he double teamed.

How long have you been watching basketball for? You're saying a guy out at the top of the key getting blown by on defense and then the offensive player being met with resistance after the fact at the rim is a double team. No it's not, that's one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.

2:20 again you see Terry and Chandler come to contest. How is that single coverage, so what you're saying is 2 other defender coming over to your contest a shot is normal single coverage and would have the same effect (particularly mentally) as if Kidd was purely on Wade the whole possession and the other defenders stayed at home? Get real.

Wade didn't even know Terry was contesting his shot and to be frank, calling it a contest is being kind. Again, I don't think you understand what a double team is if you're choosing to count that. The whole point of a double team is that you are cutting off someone's path to the hoop or impacting their ability to make a play. A coach would immediately sit you for an entire game if you called that a legitimate double team.

2:32 Triple team AS SOON AS HE GOT THE BALL

I'm starting to think I'm getting trolled.

I'm going to assume the three people you are referring to are Terry, Chandler, and Dirk.

Terry: Not even close to Wade, as Wade loses him almost immediately and at that point, Terry is out of the play completely.

Dirk: Is literally on the other side of the basket and not in the play at all.

Chandler: He is the only one who is actually there to contest, and he ends up fouling Wade.

This is single coverage. No one in their right mind would ever call this a triple team.

The defense collapsing and a zone being formed to wall him in is essentially MULTIPLE defenders trying their best to prevent Wade's attack but he was always too elusive and slithery to be stopped. No "single coverage" by any stretch.

Except no wall is being formed at any point. You just laid it out yourself for us all to see. Every time Wade beat his man, only a single player provided help after the fact. There's no such wall to speak of here. Why? Because they weren't worried about Wade getting his points. They were willing to live with that. Again, this is outlined by Cuban himself.

Again ,learn what single coverage and double teaming are. You sound like you don't even have a basic understanding of how basketball works. Here, maybe this can help you.

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=ATTACKBball

Again you have no clue what you're talking about. Just arguing semantics.

No I'm not. You're trying to claim something that isn't double teaming is double teaming. I can't help it if you don't understand the basics of the sport.

Somehow you Lebron stans just can't get over Wade outperforming your frozen one competing against the exact same defense but it happened. It will always be a huge stain on his resume. Deal with it.

Now you're trying to argue that this is a case of me being a LeBron stan? Just when I thought your logic couldn't get any worse. Buddy, I'm one of the guys who frequently **** on LeBron the most about that series. It's the entire reason I don't consider him the GOAT and never will. Just when I thought your post couldn't get any stupider, you pull this out of your ass. Anyone who actually watched this series knows that Dallas had an entire defensive scheme dedicated to slowing down LeBron, not Wade. This isn't difficult to see just by paying attention to how Dallas constructs its defense. If you can't understand that, then it's clear I'm wasting my time.

Off to the ignore list you go. I expect low IQ takes like these on GB but not here.

Dude relax yourself, huge Lebron fan but Wade definitely saw multiple bodies and heavy resistance whenever he decided to make his move. The only big 3 member that saw REAL single coverage that series was Bosh. From what I saw in those highlights, LeWade both faced very similar zone defense that should have limited their penetration. It did for LeBron, (I personally think he was a touch heavier that season amd thus slower) while Wade at 6'4 and the law of physics just allowed to him to manuever through the crevices of that zone defense Mavs implemented a lot easier.

As Tim said Lebron would get the ball and stall before making his actual move and it allowed defenders to contain him. On the other hand as soon as Wade got ball he already made his mind up and throws the Dallas defense of as he's just extremely quick on and off the ball, hence his name "Flash".

Lebron being limited to 8th points is downright disgraceful and a major blip on his resume. It could be quite literally the series that stopped/stops him from universally being considered the GOAT. Or at least more on his side.