Official Trade Thread Part XLV

[popper]

Like Wall, Beal is not a winner. Both are weak minded when measured against the upper echelon of competitors (Jimmy Butler for instance). The sooner you can get those types of players off your team the better. I'm hopeful the new GM will understand that even if it means a few lean years of winning.

Beal has often been at his best during the playoffs. Don’t take my word for it…check the record.

Everyone may not but Butler, but very few, if any, “weak minded” people make it to the NBA.

Good point. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration on my part. It's a rare person that has that fire in the belly. From what I've read, Beal's a good man, but I just don't have any confidence that we'll ever compete at a high level with him on the team. Maybe as a $25 M complementary piece but not as the $50 M alpha dog.

[payitforward]

Like Wall, Beal is not a winner. Both are weak minded when measured against the upper echelon of competitors (Jimmy Butler for instance). The sooner you can get those types of players off your team the better. I'm hopeful the new GM will understand that even if it means a few lean years of winning.

Everybody is weak-minded compared to Jimmy Butler!

As to "a few lean years," we've had them, & more are coming no matter what. This team needs to be rebuilt top to bottom.

[nate33]

Everybody is weak-minded compared to Jimmy Butler!

Truth.

[payitforward]

...I just don't have any confidence that we'll ever compete at a high level with (Beal) on the team....

Almost certainly not, given that he's about to turn 30, & the Wizards are a terrible team that won 30-something games a season all through the years when he was at his absolute prime.

But, it's not about him! It's not Bradley Beal's fault.
Not to belabor what must be an obvious point, but overall, the reason for our lousy performance is that overall we have a lousy team.

The way in which Brad is a problem now has little to do with how he played last year or even how he'll play next year. He's a problem, because by the time a new GM is able to rebuild, Brad is almost certain to be less productive than he is -- & a good deal less productive than he was at the peak of his career.

Looking at it from the opposite angle -- from Brad's perspective -- he'd be a lot better off on a team where his contribution could help the team contend for a title.

Yes, his contract has a no-trade clause, but I bet he'd be more than happy to go to any team like that, no matter where it's located. For example, I would expect him to welcome a trade to Sacramento.

[nate33]

I can't remember if this has come up before, but would you S&T Porzingis for Ayton? It's basically a gamble that Ayton has the Andrew Wiggins development arc and finally figures things out in a new setting. (Of course, Wiggins presumably benefited from the great Golden State ecosystem, which we lack.)

Ayton will be 25 at the start of next season. Porzingis will be 28.

[payitforward]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

[doclinkin]

1. I don't care about Beal's pursuit of the scoring record. It's much harder to make a mid-season deal that it is to make an offseason deal. If there's a good deal available for Beal this offseason, we should make it. End of story. This team has won 35, 35, 39, 28 and 32 games in the last 5 seasons respectively with Beal as the best player. It isn't working. There is absolutely no reason to stick with it. The only consideration on potential Beal trades should be whether or not we are getting good value in return. Nothing else matters.

You might not care but I imagine Beal does. And he holds the NTC.

Interesting point.

I'm not sure I agree though. I'm sure Beal is going to leverage his NTC to ensure that he goes to a good team with championship aspirations. But if that trade opportunity arises this summer, I don't see him vetoing it just to get a scoring record for the worst franchise in pro basketball.

I absolutely think Brad cares about the Wizards all time scoring title. He has talked about wanting to 'leave his legacy' in DC etc. Has had opportunities in the past to move on and win elsewhere but chose to stay here regardless. He worked his tail off to chase the scoring title in a losing year. Some might think these are meaningless vanity milestones, but you get the sense these are significant to him. I think he'd like to have his name up in the rafters and come back to the franchise to have a role after his career. Without a chance for a championship here, this is one way he can get his name in the All Time books. If he gets the record and the team is moving on in a different direction under a new GM, I think halfway through the year he might see who wants to chase him. But before then, I doubt it.

[nate33]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

If the deal is essentially Beal for Brown straight up, I'd make it and then look to trade Brown down the road. If nothing else, do it to get younger and more durable.

And Grant Williams is of no interest to me at all since he is about to be a free agent. Robert Williams is redundant with Gafford. Hauser is a bench player.

[NatP4]

I think a 3 team deal with Boston and some other team that can give us a 1st round pick is the most likely and preferred outcome.

[penbeast0]

I can't remember if this has come up before, but would you S&T Porzingis for Ayton? It's basically a gamble that Ayton has the Andrew Wiggins development arc and finally figures things out in a new setting. (Of course, Wiggins presumably benefited from the great Golden State ecosystem, which we lack.)

Ayton will be 25 at the start of next season. Porzingis will be 28.

Probably not. Porzingis seems to like being here; Ayton seems grumpy in Phoenix despite their winning. I don't want a disaffected star here just waiting to leave.

[Doug_Blew]

Everybody is weak-minded compared to Jimmy Butler!

Truth.

Nene helped turned Jimmy Butler into the beast that he is today.

[Dat2U]

I can't remember if this has come up before, but would you S&T Porzingis for Ayton? It's basically a gamble that Ayton has the Andrew Wiggins development arc and finally figures things out in a new setting. (Of course, Wiggins presumably benefited from the great Golden State ecosystem, which we lack.)

Ayton will be 25 at the start of next season. Porzingis will be 28.

Ayton is a complete dog and not in a good way. I don't think winning is a priority for him and he's never been more than average at best defender for the position. I wouldn't want anything to do with his contract.

[Dat2U]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

Grant Williams & Sam Hauser strike me as 8th & 9th man types in a rotation. I'm not sure why a rebuilding team would be interested in them over Brown. If anything, bring Portland in the fold and get the 3rd pick & Simons/Nurkic in return.

[9 and 20]

You might not care but I imagine Beal does. And he holds the NTC.

Interesting point.

I'm not sure I agree though. I'm sure Beal is going to leverage his NTC to ensure that he goes to a good team with championship aspirations. But if that trade opportunity arises this summer, I don't see him vetoing it just to get a scoring record for the worst franchise in pro basketball.

I absolutely think Brad cares about the Wizards all time scoring title. He has talked about wanting to 'leave his legacy' in DC etc. Has had opportunities in the past to move on and win elsewhere but chose to stay here regardless. He worked his tail off to chase the scoring title in a losing year. Some might think these are meaningless vanity milestones, but you get the sense these are significant to him. I think he'd like to have his name up in the rafters and come back to the franchise to have a role after his career. Without a chance for a championship here, this is one way he can get his name in the All Time books. If he gets the record and the team is moving on in a different direction under a new GM, I think halfway through the year he might see who wants to chase him. But before then, I doubt it.

This is probably right, and it's tough to blame a guy for injuries or COVID, but I will power through and blame him for getting COVID every other week for the past year or two. If it weren't for that, he'd already have his record and could hurry up and move on.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

I was actually thinking Kevin Pritchard. It’s a minor deal, I know. But I’d dangle Anthony Gill and our second 2nd. Who knows, with a lead role, maybe Pritchard thrives.

[NatP4]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

Grant Williams & Sam Hauser strike me as 8th & 9th man types in a rotation. I'm not sure why a rebuilding team would be interested in them over Brown. If anything, bring Portland in the fold and get the 3rd pick & Simons/Nurkic in return.

That’s an interesting thought. Portland gets Brown and maybe Rob Williams or something? Boston gets Beal, we get 3rd overall.

Maybe flip Simons to somewhere else like the Lakers or clippers for another 1st round pick+filler.

[Frichuela]

There is something happening right now, btw, which at least might bode well for an off-season trade of Beal -- namely, the way Miami is beating up on the Celtics.

The problem is that Boston's most obvious trade candidate, Jaylen Brown, is someone a rebuilding really should not want to acquire.

The 3 players on that team who should be of most interest to a rebuilding team are Robert Williams, Grant Williams & Sam Hauser.

There'd have to be a 3d team involved. Seems long odds....

Grant Williams & Sam Hauser strike me as 8th & 9th man types in a rotation. I'm not sure why a rebuilding team would be interested in them over Brown. If anything, bring Portland in the fold and get the 3rd pick & Simons/Nurkic in return.

That’s an interesting thought. Portland gets Brown and maybe Rob Williams or something? Boston gets Beal, we get 3rd overall.

Maybe flip Simons to somewhere else like the Lakers or clippers for another 1st round pick+filler.

That would make sense but knowing Turd he is probably salivating at the prospect of Brown in a Wizards uniform.

[FAH1223]

Watch on YouTube

[NatP4]

The Celtics aren’t winning anything ever with the current core. Mazzula was a mistake, the culture is awful. Tatum and Brown are complimentary pieces, and not leaders.

Beal isn’t the right answer, but they might think he is.

[Dark Faze]

The only way Jaylen leaves is if he wants out. I think it's just money with him. He wouldn't turn down a supermax.

Mazzulla will be demoted for sure and then they'll take another shot at it. Maybe look to consolidate some talent to improve the center position.