This should be the end of the Tatum and Brown era

return2glory · Post #1 » by **return2glory** » Mon May 22, 2023 4:46 am

I like Joe. Was a big supporter on his all season before the playoffs. But he wasn't ready for the playoffs, not yet. Some other team might have to give time a shot.

But enough about Joe and blaming him. Everyone knew coming into this series that Erik Spoelstra was going to out coach him.

What everyone didn't know is that Caleb Martin was going to outplay Jaylen Brown and out play him easily. Brown is a much better player than Martin. Brown is a 2 time all-star and Martin is a bench player. No one saw this coming.

What people didn't know was Butler was going to outplay Tatum. Tatum is the better player, but not by much. But that's what has happened. Butler has outplayed Tatum.

Tatum and Brown have the same weaknesses. Neither is clutch in close games on a consistent basis, especially not Brown. Neither is a good leader. Neither one makes their teammates better. Neither one is good at taking care of the ball.

We have had enough of Tatum and Brown. They have taken the Celtics team as far as they can. They are not a good fit. Again, last season was a fluke. This year, we were close to being bounced in the 2nd round.

Brad has to end this combo. Keep Tatum.

Tyakack · Post #2 » by **Tyakack** » Mon May 22, 2023 4:55 am

So conflicted. Agree with the title of the thread but the first few words made me wanna stop reading immediately :lol:

zoyathedestroya · Post #3 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Mon May 22, 2023 6:09 am

It wouldn’t surprise me if players from other teams are already starting to send signals to recruit them. Maybe even Bam wooing Tatum to South Beach.

FlatearthZorro · Post #4 » by **FlatearthZorro** » Mon May 22, 2023 6:36 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me if players from other teams are already starting to send signals to recruit them. Maybe even Bam wooing Tatum to South Beach.

Tatum will get super max, I doubt he leaves.
Brown has given signals that he wants to go and it may be time for him to get traded.

chrisab123 · Post #5 » by **chrisab123** » Mon May 22, 2023 8:01 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me if players from other teams are already starting to send signals to recruit them. Maybe even Bam wooing Tatum to South Beach.

I can't see Tatum turning down 318 million. I've also changed my thoughts from thinking hes bolting to LA to he probably stays if they're competitive. Brown? Yeah he probably is looking for a way to get the bag and leave.

zoyathedestroya · Post #6 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am

chrisab123 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me if players from other teams are already starting to send signals to recruit them. Maybe even Bam wooing Tatum to South Beach.

I can't see Tatum turning down 318 million. I've also changed my thoughts from thinking hes bolting to LA to he probably stays if they're competitive. Brown? Yeah he probably is looking for a way to get the bag and leave.

That could happen too. Both sign their maxes and ask out a season or two after. Trend we’ve been seeing with today’s stars.

Post #7 » by **Froob** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:15 am

Man we really blew our best shot at a ring in 2020, 2022 and 2023.

pac213up · Post #8 » by **pac213up** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:29 am

That would depend on what the alternative is. Brown would have most of the leverage so the trade options are very limited.

chrisab123 · Post #9 » by **chrisab123** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:39 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
chrisab123 wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:It wouldn’t surprise me if players from other teams are already starting to send signals to recruit them. Maybe even Bam wooing Tatum to South Beach.

I can't see Tatum turning down 318 million. I've also changed my thoughts from thinking hes bolting to LA to he probably stays if they're competitive. Brown? Yeah he probably is looking for a way to get the bag and leave.

That could happen too. Both sign their maxes and ask out a season or two after. Trend we’ve been seeing with today’s stars.

I just don't see Tatum leaving while this team is competitive. Its the exact opposite I felt 3 months ago. But they need to blow up this core (at least trade Smart)

bigfoot_cryptozoology · Post #10 » by **bigfoot_cryptozoology** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:47 am

Read on Twitter

Ben-N1ce · Post #11 » by **Ben-N1ce** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:50 am

Comparing Tatum getting outplayed by Jimmy to Caleb And Jaylen is not the same thing...

Post #12 » by **Froob** » Mon May 22, 2023 10:53 am

Ben-N1ce wrote:Comparing Tatum getting outplayed by Jimmy to Caleb And Jaylen is not the same thing...

Jimmy isn’t the reason we are down 3-0. It’s Caleb Martin and Gabe Vincent.

Fierce1 · Post #13 » by **Fierce1** » Mon May 22, 2023 11:33 am

As long as the Cs are in the hunt every season, the owners will not care about winning a title.

If the owners are making money then they'll just keep running this back.

marson · Post #14 » by **marson** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:09 pm

Heat fan here coming in peace. I think you guys should keep Brown and Tatum moving forward.

Two years ago, against the Bucks, Heat was swept 4-0 with Jimmy Butler shooting 30% in the series and outscored by Bryn Forbes all series. There would be a down year and Celtics just need to regroup.

A competent coach should be your number 1 target this off-season.

BK_2020 · Post #15 » by **BK_2020** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:17 pm

Tatum is 27-10-3.7 on .595 TS%. He's handily outplayed Jimmy Butler despite Butler facing mostly single coverage. He had a real stinker of a game 3 but the fact is if we replace Jaylen Brown with literally any bum off the street we are up 2-1.
We need to stop thinking of Tatum and Brown as a package deal. It's like grouping Kobe and Eddie Jones together, or Curry and Monta Ellis.

zoyathedestroya · Post #16 » by **zoyathedestroya** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:23 pm

In every ECF/Finals appearance the Smart/Jays Celtics have been in, it’s their offense that’s failed them particularly late game offense. The defense being MIA this ECF is more an anomaly (I blame coaching for this more than anything).

The teams that advance outside of Lebron-led teams are ones that are connected, organized, disciplined, and selfless on offense. Style of play is paramount. Identify the players who are willing to commit to change. Not for two months in the regular season. Not when they just feel like it. Not only against the poor defensive teams. Kings are on a good path. Mike Brown transformed how they run their offense. They might have been bounced in the first round but they laid a good foundation in terms of offense. Nuggets and Heat are about to be in the Finals cos they spent years perfecting their style of play. Miami doesn’t have a Jokic-level offensive maestro but they run a very sound offense which punishes defensive miscues the way Warriors did.

It’s time to have a paradigm shift. Our stars aren’t really elite enough to be iso players. Get players that are willing and able to play team ball. I believe Tatum will still grow as a closer and playmaker. He needs to add more arsenal in his bag other than the pullup three and drive to the rim. I’m ready to move on from Brown, who seven years in, still makes the same mistakes and displays same flaws from his 3rd year. He will be harder to mold to fit into this change.

EDIT: Vincent, Martin, and Strus didn’t outperform Smart, White, and Brogdon because they’re better players. It’s because they run an offense that involves everyone and empowers everyone to make a play consistently and not just every two or three plays.

will · Post #17 » by **will** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:23 pm

Jaylen upcoming contract ahead of his pending free agency in 2024 may be it.

Red2 · Post #18 » by **Red2** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:32 pm

Talent is only good if it’s used right. Tatum snd brown don’t play off of one another and they don’t really play together. Other than shooting 3’s this team doesnt have any other way to score. They don’t run the floor snd they don’t post up. They aren’t tough and they fold in close games. Smart continues to make bonehead plays as does brown. I think you have to change the core. I doubt they trade tatum or brown so smart is the logical guy. Al makes way too much and has been a dud so you have to do something there. And joe has to go; the team quit on him

RondoToKG · Post #19 » by **RondoToKG** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:34 pm

[quote="Fierce1"]As long as the Cs are in the hunt every season, the owners will not care about winning a title.

If the owners are making money then they'll just keep running this back.[/quote

Title=more money. A lot more money. idk about that

Bostondave · Post #20 » by **Bostondave** » Mon May 22, 2023 12:38 pm

I disagree with the premise. Keep the J's together. They haven't reached their peaks quite yet. I say get a better/real point guard and take the ball out of their hands so much. I say tweak, not blow up. Starting with coaching, the pg I mentioned. But I'd keep the J's together with Rob. The rest can go.

A good coach can help with the low basketball IQ on this team. Shouldn't be this way with this veteran core but it is.