Official NBA General Discussion 2022-23 V4.0

[Los_29]

What makes this run surprising is that the Heat got outmatched last year against Boston. It was abundantly clear that Boston was the better and more talented team even though it went 7 games. The reason it went 7 games had everything to do with Boston and not Miami. Miami could barely score in the halfcourt. Their offense looked awful.

Miami should've been even worse this year given the fact that Butler and Lowry are a year older and they lost a starter in PJ Tucker. It's absolutely stunning what they've done to the Celtics. A sweep like this in this fashion can lead to significant changes to an organization. Boston seriously has some decisions to make. They looked like they gave up last night. You can't win a championship with that mindset.

[Tha Cynic]

Miami underachieved all year. They're much better than an 8 seed team. That's no different than the Warriors underachieving. You could have even seen the Warriors go further if they didn't run into matchup problems without a true 5.

The difference is in realizing a great team vs a treadmill team. It makes sense for Miami to push since they've made the finals and conference finals with this core before. You could say the same about Boston. The Raptors are not a comparison to either team. Their current team is better compared to teams like Minny, Chicago or Atlanta. None of those teams have shown consistently that they are playoff teams.

This has never been done before. Just stop right there. Doesn't matter what you think about overachieving, treadmill, whatever... This kind of run has never happened in the NBA.

This is such a black and white way of looking at it. Instead of looking at the fact that this team with this core has done this before already, you're trying to use a one year blip to help with an argument. You're not making a genuine case or having a genuine conversation.

[mdenny]

Read on Twitter

Saying what everyone saw. These so called professional basketball players just quit. And quit early in this game. What an embarrassing performance. Oh well, collect those fat pay checks.

Efficient offense matters.

You should check out the efficiency of the Miami offense during the regular season. They may just be the most inefficient scoring team to ever reach the finals.

Miami was 24th. Raptors were top 15 I believe.

For everyone saying "defense is overated"....you're saying that in the context of a historical anomaly where we're about to see the worst offensive team ever to reach the finals lol.

[Los_29]

This is the culture that has been sorely lacking in our franchise since Lowry left

Our role players weren't exactly thriving in the last two years Kyle was here either. We finished in the lottery in Kyle's last year.

Front office needs to step it up.

Team made it to the last minutes of game 7 in second round with a chance to win after losing two starters that offseason and replacing them with end of bench guys. Next year the entire team was hit with Covid and they still had a hard time tanking. The players who this team had definitely thrived, to the point where Birch got a huge contract out of it.

Huge difference in culture since the end of Lowry in Toronto began.

We had a 3rd year OG ready to replace Green in the starting lineup. Guys like Norm and Fred were already with the team and their minutes got elevated. In the series against the Celtics we pretty much ran a very tight 7 man rotation consisting of players we've had for years with the exception of Gasol.

Most teams were hit with Covid. We weren't as bad as our record but we weren't a playoff team either. The following year without Kyle we won 48 games (despite having tons of injuries) with no bench and no center. People just conveniently forget these things. Did we have no culture last year when we won 48 games and nearly the entire team was training together all summer?

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

Maybe we need J Cole in Raps front office. He's working for free out there while Raps front office asleep at the wheel.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

I never understood why Pritchard isn’t played more, everytime I watch him he seems solid

[ItsDanger]

I never understood why Pritchard isn’t played more, everytime I watch him he seems solid

Gets taken off the dribble too often, too easily. Need to pair him up with legit paint presence, not these fake shot blocking/rebounding C's. Pritchard has real skills but slightly undersized.

[YogurtProducer]

Until Pascal hits 3 pointers in playoff games he will never win a damn thing as a #2.

We won a title with Siakam shooting 28% on 3's as a #2.

[YogurtProducer]

So Miami was in the conference finals last year too, faced Boston of course, and had the top seed. Pretty crazy story, now they’re the lowest seed facing Boston again and somehow sweeping them despite having a weaker team. Also taking out Giannis. Incredible run. It stops in Denver though

Hope so - I put money on Denver this year

[Boogie!]

used to be that he's the random scrub of the night that torches the raptors. Now he's legit.

Heat are gonna make him the pg of the future and build around him and make him an allstar.

Gabe Vincent need a **** GV logo and a apparel website first.

here is a sample

Needs a tagline too. Since he was undrafted, maybe something along the lines of believing In oneself.

[mtcan]

Heat are gonna make him the pg of the future and build around him and make him an allstar.

Gabe Vincent need a **** GV logo and a apparel website first.

here is a sample

Needs a tagine too. Since he was undrafted, maybe something along the lines of believing In oneself.

Bet WITH Yourself

[pingpongrac]

Look harder.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

And understand that formula.

I understand that formula perfectly well. Individual ORTG and DRTG is a terrible measure on its own for one's abilities and/or impact though. Or do you seriously think FVV (+3) is more impactful than Jrue (-1) and Ja (-1) while being similarly as impactful as SGA (+3) and Luka (+4)? Is Siakam (+5) as impactful as George (+5) and Tatum (+6)? Is GTJ (+0) more impactful than Beal (-2) and Booker (-4)? Like come on lol.

You did not refer to what those net ratings are if they're a specific season, career, playoffs. I have no clue what you're talking about so lay it out properly if you want a response.

Actually most posters don't bother with you so I won't either. Ja Morant is overrated and so is Beal. Booker has been poor in terms of overall efficiency until this season and playoff when he went insane. High volume chuckers or flashy players who stink on defense appeal to casual fans like yourself and rarely win anything important in the NBA.

Obviously they are for their careers and not this season. You initially said Brown has never showed up in the playoffs and I pointed out how off-base that comment was then you started talking about his individual neutral NetRTG (which isn't even a reliable measure of NetRTG) which I assumed meant you were still talking about for his career.

And lol for calling me a casual as you use individual ORTG and DRTG on bball reference as evidence of one's impact while ignoring how incredibly wonky those numbers are. Are you really putting that much stock into a metric that has All-Defence guys like Brooks, OG and White ranked outside of the top 50 (or even 100) this season while Drummond, Adams and Love are top 35?

[WaltFrazier]

This has never been done before. Just stop right there. Doesn't matter what you think about overachieving, treadmill, whatever... This kind of run has never happened in the NBA.

Knicks made the final as an 8 seed in 99.

That was a lockout season I believe. Im guessing alot of players weren't in game shape. This seems way more impressive.

They played a reduced number of season games but everyone was game ready by the playoffs

[Potential]

Miami was actually the 7th seed that was 1 game back of 6th. But they were pushed back as an official 8th seed because of losing 1 game in the play-in.

They were down 3 with 3 minutes remaining against the Bulls and were finally going to be put out of their misery after an uninspiring underwhelming season. Now here they are.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

I understand that formula perfectly well. Individual ORTG and DRTG is a terrible measure on its own for one's abilities and/or impact though. Or do you seriously think FVV (+3) is more impactful than Jrue (-1) and Ja (-1) while being similarly as impactful as SGA (+3) and Luka (+4)? Is Siakam (+5) as impactful as George (+5) and Tatum (+6)? Is GTJ (+0) more impactful than Beal (-2) and Booker (-4)? Like come on lol.

You did not refer to what those net ratings are if they're a specific season, career, playoffs. I have no clue what you're talking about so lay it out properly if you want a response.

Actually most posters don't bother with you so I won't either. Ja Morant is overrated and so is Beal. Booker has been poor in terms of overall efficiency until this season and playoff when he went insane. High volume chuckers or flashy players who stink on defense appeal to casual fans like yourself and rarely win anything important in the NBA.

Obviously they are for their careers and not this season. You initially said Brown has never showed up in the playoffs and I pointed out how off-base that comment was then you started talking about his individual neutral NetRTG (which isn't even a reliable measure of NetRTG) which I assumed meant you were still talking about for his career.

And lol for calling me a casual as you use individual ORTG and DRTG on bball reference as evidence of one's impact while ignoring how incredibly wonky those numbers are. Are you really putting that much stock into a metric that has All-Defence guys like Brooks, OG and White ranked outside of the top 50 (or even 100) this season while Drummond, Adams and Love are top 35?

It's relative to who you go up against on the court. There are backups with insanely high net RTGs because they play against **** competition. Starters typically play against starters especially when it comes to playoff RTGs. It's not absolute. It's a tool. Other factors need to be considered, which I consider. Your example involves the RTGs of backup big men which shows how you understand nothing about the practical application of using RTG to help evaluate a player. I never said specifically that "Brown has never showed up in the playoffs" you are putting words into my mouth but that's what posters like you do. Keep enlightening this board with your tremendous wisdom. Better yet, go over to the Celtics forums and tell them what an incredible player Jaylen Brown is and how he's worth a supermax deal. Good luck to you.

[pingpongrac]

You did not refer to what those net ratings are if they're a specific season, career, playoffs. I have no clue what you're talking about so lay it out properly if you want a response.

Actually most posters don't bother with you so I won't either. Ja Morant is overrated and so is Beal. Booker has been poor in terms of overall efficiency until this season and playoff when he went insane. High volume chuckers or flashy players who stink on defense appeal to casual fans like yourself and rarely win anything important in the NBA.

Obviously they are for their careers and not this season. You initially said Brown has never showed up in the playoffs and I pointed out how off-base that comment was then you started talking about his individual neutral NetRTG (which isn't even a reliable measure of NetRTG) which I assumed meant you were still talking about for his career.

And lol for calling me a casual as you use individual ORTG and DRTG on bball reference as evidence of one's impact while ignoring how incredibly wonky those numbers are. Are you really putting that much stock into a metric that has All-Defence guys like Brooks, OG and White ranked outside of the top 50 (or even 100) this season while Drummond, Adams and Love are top 35?

It's relative to who you go up against on the court. There are backups with insanely high net RTGs because they play against **** competition. Starters typically play against starters especially when it comes to playoff RTGs. It's not absolute. It's a tool. Other factors need to be considered, which I consider. Your example involves the RTGs of backup big men which shows how you understand nothing about the practical application of using RTG to help evaluate a player. I never said specifically that "Brown has never showed up in the playoffs" you are putting words into my mouth but that's what posters like you do. Keep enlightening this board with your tremendous wisdom. Better yet, go over to the Celtics forums and tell them what an incredible player Jaylen Brown is and how he's worth a supermax deal. Good luck to you.

My apologies. You said he sucks in the playoffs. I guess that is marginally different than saying he never shows up in the playoffs.

The point is that Brown has actually been good in the playoffs though. All-in-all, his regular season numbers over the past few seasons have been almost identical to his playoff averages over the same span (24/6/3 on 58 TS% vs 23/7/3 on 58 TS%). He's simply just going through a brutal three-point shooting stretch in this series. He's still a very good player and one that 90% of the league would love to have as a #2 option.

[HumbleRen]

Last year and this years Heat run has only reinforced my notion that Bam is the best defender in the league.

He's the perfect playoff defender.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Obviously they are for their careers and not this season. You initially said Brown has never showed up in the playoffs and I pointed out how off-base that comment was then you started talking about his individual neutral NetRTG (which isn't even a reliable measure of NetRTG) which I assumed meant you were still talking about for his career.

And lol for calling me a casual as you use individual ORTG and DRTG on bball reference as evidence of one's impact while ignoring how incredibly wonky those numbers are. Are you really putting that much stock into a metric that has All-Defence guys like Brooks, OG and White ranked outside of the top 50 (or even 100) this season while Drummond, Adams and Love are top 35?

It's relative to who you go up against on the court. There are backups with insanely high net RTGs because they play against **** competition. Starters typically play against starters especially when it comes to playoff RTGs. It's not absolute. It's a tool. Other factors need to be considered, which I consider. Your example involves the RTGs of backup big men which shows how you understand nothing about the practical application of using RTG to help evaluate a player. I never said specifically that "Brown has never showed up in the playoffs" you are putting words into my mouth but that's what posters like you do. Keep enlightening this board with your tremendous wisdom. Better yet, go over to the Celtics forums and tell them what an incredible player Jaylen Brown is and how he's worth a supermax deal. Good luck to you.

My apologies. You said he sucks in the playoffs. I guess that is marginally different than saying he never shows up in the playoffs.

The point is that Brown has actually been good in the playoffs though. All-in-all, his regular season numbers over the past few seasons have been almost identical to his playoff averages over the same span (24/6/3 on 58 TS% vs 23/7/3 on 58 TS%). He's simply just going through a brutal three-point shooting stretch in this series. He's still a very good player and one that 90% of the league would love to have as a #2 option.

All I'm going to say is that I don't want my number 2 option and to address the initial point, my number 2 option being given a supermax next to my number 1 option Siakam being given a max (or consider them 1a 1b in whatever manner you please), to be a guy with such high usage who is going to basically bring a 1.2:1 ast-to ratio and like a .250 ftR to the table. There are other issues with him as well.

[mtcan]

Read on Twitter

Oh what could have been...instead we ended up with Speshal Ed

[ItsDanger]

If people think draft depth isn't good currently, just look at previous years like 2010. Now that year, outside of top 10, was just brutal. Lesson? If you really like a prospect, trade up.