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**The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two**

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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#341 » by Baseline81 » Thu May 18, 2023 1:42 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:At the time, it was pretty obvious that Love preferred to be elsewhere so I was all for it at the time. I also expected Wiggins to be much better than he was for the Wolves, though.

I've seen so little of Scoot to have an educated opinion on what kind of pro he can be and Miller's character flaws are so egregious that I want nothing to do with him in a Wolves jersey regardless of his talent.

Agree the reasons behind such a move are different. And yes, I cannot see the Wolves trading for Miller. It would be for Henderson to become the team's future PG.

Wiggins had hype, though at the time, I'm not sure he lived up to it at Kansas. He was still considered a top-3 pick due to his potential. With Henderson, he chose an alternate, and less visible, path with the NBA G League.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#342 » by urinesane » Tue May 23, 2023 7:40 pm

Finally found the tweet that I had seen after the first round!

Read on Twitter


To those rushing to trade KAT for a week old ham sandwich and a Starry™
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#343 » by m2002brian » Tue May 23, 2023 8:19 pm

urinesane wrote:Finally found the tweet that I had seen after the first round!

Read on Twitter


To those rushing to trade KAT for a week old ham sandwich and a Starry™


How many fouls? Hint: it’s more than 5 for games 4 and 5. The two games he guarded him the most. Coincidence?

Jokic averaged 26.2 ppg in the first round.
Shot a total of 99 shots, and make 48 of them. Not exactly deterred. The stats are skewed mostly because he just had a poor shooting night in general in game 5. The same game he had 12 assist and 2 turnovers. He also shot 10 free throws, scored 28 points and was +3 on the night. The exact difference in the game.

Sometimes it feels like the excuse club is stronger than the reason and logic club.

60 million isn’t worth what he brings.
If you can get Scoot, Sharpe and Simmons you do it.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#344 » by urinesane » Tue May 23, 2023 9:40 pm

m2002brian wrote:
urinesane wrote:Finally found the tweet that I had seen after the first round!

Read on Twitter


To those rushing to trade KAT for a week old ham sandwich and a Starry™


How many fouls? Hint: it’s more than 5 for games 4 and 5. The two games he guarded him the most. Coincidence?

Jokic averaged 26.2 ppg in the first round.
Shot a total of 99 shots, and make 48 of them. Not exactly deterred. The stats are skewed mostly because he just had a poor shooting night in general in game 5. The same game he had 12 assist and 2 turnovers. He also shot 10 free throws, scored 28 points and was +3 on the night. The exact difference in the game.

Sometimes it feels like the excuse club is stronger than the reason and logic club.

60 million isn’t worth what he brings.
If you can get Scoot, Sharpe and Simmons you do it.



Where is the excuse in my post? I simply provided a stat that shows KAT, despite not having the offensive output we expect from him, wasn't as bad on Jokic as many in the playoffs. Where is the fault in my reason and logic exactly? Not saying he locked Jokic down, but he certainly didn't get destroyed on the same level everyone else has so far in the playoffs. That's not an opinion.

Yeah, he fouls too much, but he was also not in playoff shape going against the reigning 2x MVP (and should have been 3x in a row) sh*t happens. Is your KAT hatred so great that you can't concede a single point?

Not sure how the foul thing comes into play, it's not like it's uncommon for big men to get in foul trouble, especially against someone as skilled as Jokic... but it's not like that factors into the FG% I posted above.

Please just admit that you made up your mind on KAT long ago and nothing will change that (not even if KAT kicks ass for us next season).
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#345 » by Nick K » Tue May 23, 2023 11:01 pm

m2002brian wrote:
shrink wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you’ll find a player’s appearance on “Leaderboards, Awards and Honors.” As you can imagine, Towns is listed in many separate years for many things. But one interesting thing bbref does is compare your average production to current players, and all players that have ever played in the NBA. Keep in mind that Towns hasn’t gotten old enough to hurt his averages with eventual decline, and he started as a rookie as a very good NBA player. Still, even factoring in last season, his placement among his peers is startling!

Points Per Game: 11th among Active Players, 29th among Career NBA
Rebounds Per Game: 3rd, 25th
Blocks Per Game: 13th, 92nd
FG Percentage: 19th, 60th
3-PT FG%: xx, 66th
2 PT FG%: 14th, 25th
EFF FG%: 12th, 19th
TS%: 6th, 9th
Minutes Per Game, 15th, xx
PER: 6th, 14th
WS/48: 12th, 33rd
BPM: 12th, 29th
OBPM: 10th, 17th
ORtg: 8th, 13th
Usage%: xx, 46th
Total RB%: 9th, 24th
ORB%, 13th, xx
DRB%, 9th, 13th
Block%: 11th, 59th

Does Towns get treated like he is on lists with the best players today, and forever? For example, he’s 14th all time in PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. Nikola Jokić 27.65
3. LeBron James 27.22
4. Anthony Davis 26.96
5. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
6. David Robinson* 26.18
7. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.16
8. Bob Pettit* 25.45
9. Kevin Durant 25.29
10. Giannis Antetokounmpo 24.92
11. Neil Johnston* 24.86
12. Charles Barkley* 24.63
13. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
14. Karl-Anthony Towns 24.42
15. James Harden 24.35
16. Chris Paul 24.34
17. Tim Duncan* 24.22
18. Magic Johnson* 24.11
19. Karl Malone* 23.90
20. Stephen Curry 23.84
21. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
22. Julius Erving* 23.58
23. Larry Bird* 23.50
24. Dwyane Wade 23.48
25. Kawhi Leonard 23.42


Lol. What a useless stat.

KAT is maybe, maybe better than 2 of those guys.


Just to be in that group should speak volumes but not to a hater. A haters mind is already made up. It's ok. You're entitled to your opinion.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#346 » by Nick K » Tue May 23, 2023 11:03 pm

fattymcgee wrote:
shrink wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/townska01.html

If you scroll to the bottom of this page, you’ll find a player’s appearance on “Leaderboards, Awards and Honors.” As you can imagine, Towns is listed in many separate years for many things. But one interesting thing bbref does is compare your average production to current players, and all players that have ever played in the NBA. Keep in mind that Towns hasn’t gotten old enough to hurt his averages with eventual decline, and he started as a rookie as a very good NBA player. Still, even factoring in last season, his placement among his peers is startling!

Points Per Game: 11th among Active Players, 29th among Career NBA
Rebounds Per Game: 3rd, 25th
Blocks Per Game: 13th, 92nd
FG Percentage: 19th, 60th
3-PT FG%: xx, 66th
2 PT FG%: 14th, 25th
EFF FG%: 12th, 19th
TS%: 6th, 9th
Minutes Per Game, 15th, xx
PER: 6th, 14th
WS/48: 12th, 33rd
BPM: 12th, 29th
OBPM: 10th, 17th
ORtg: 8th, 13th
Usage%: xx, 46th
Total RB%: 9th, 24th
ORB%, 13th, xx
DRB%, 9th, 13th
Block%: 11th, 59th

Does Towns get treated like he is on lists with the best players today, and forever? For example, he’s 14th all time in PER

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. Nikola Jokić 27.65
3. LeBron James 27.22
4. Anthony Davis 26.96
5. Shaquille O'Neal* 26.43
6. David Robinson* 26.18
7. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.16
8. Bob Pettit* 25.45
9. Kevin Durant 25.29
10. Giannis Antetokounmpo 24.92
11. Neil Johnston* 24.86
12. Charles Barkley* 24.63
13. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
14. Karl-Anthony Towns 24.42
15. James Harden 24.35
16. Chris Paul 24.34
17. Tim Duncan* 24.22
18. Magic Johnson* 24.11
19. Karl Malone* 23.90
20. Stephen Curry 23.84
21. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
22. Julius Erving* 23.58
23. Larry Bird* 23.50
24. Dwyane Wade 23.48
25. Kawhi Leonard 23.42


Minnesota fans are stupid. Whether you're talking Wolves or Vikings they always bitch about what a player/coach can't do instead of what they can do. They hyperfocus on the negatives and end up ragging on every player that's ever been employed by a MN franchise. In football they always complain about the QB and/or coach. I remember when we had the highest scoring offense in the history of the NFL and people were complaining about Billick.
People complained that KG wouldn't take over the end of games and wanted to replace him.
Our fans are too dumb to realize there are no perfect players.


That is so true. Profound really. I couldn't agree more.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#347 » by Nick K » Tue May 23, 2023 11:12 pm

Slim Tubby wrote:
Battletrigger wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:
Differing opinions make the world go round but we all root for the same team. Just be respectful...there are times to "agree to disagree".

Personally, I'm interested in a Scoot for KAT deal, especially factoring in our future contractual obligations but we have no use for Nurk and Simons' contract is reminiscent of Peele's (yuck).

I'd still hold out hope for Mykal Bridges + fillers in any KAT trade.



I don't like to trade this level of player for a pack around a high pick. Every year we saw people to be supposedly very good being a bust.

I prefer the Mykal Bridges or Brown trades bur I suppose that Kat, right now, has not that kind of value.

The OKC trade that read in the trade post was nice too.


Agreed...trading a known talent like KAT for a draft pick as the focal point of a trade is not the ideal.

If we look back at Draft history, what are the odds that the player taken at #3 this year will ever come close to being the player that Towns is today? Very, very low.

As for the OKC deal, I like Giddey's potential but I'd personally prefer Jalen Williams more. Now if we could get both... :)


Very, very true. People get drugged on "draft ether". They think there is a franchise saver with any top 5 pick.

Just google NBA draft wiki. Look at the last 10 years of nba drafts. Wiki does a great job of laying it out. The number of fair to bust players is frightening.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#348 » by Mattya » Wed May 24, 2023 12:19 am

Just go thru the draft threads of people talking themselves into players.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#349 » by Klomp » Wed May 24, 2023 6:58 pm

Brought this over from the trade thread...

Baseline81 wrote:I am not on the "Towns must go" ship -- even I recognize his value. However, I just don't see, at this point, how it will increase much more than it already is. One, with Edwards' emergence, he's no longer the first option on offense. Two, he'll continue playing next to Gobert. As such, his numbers will never reach what they did prior to the trade. And finally, his salary will only look worse ($36M in 2023-24 to $$49M in 2024-25).


If Towns can retain his efficiency on a lower volume and team success comes with it, his value absolutely can improve. Lower volume can also allow Towns to focus more of his energy on defense. KAT's most efficient scoring season of his career came in 2017-18 (the Butler season). It was his second-lowest shooting volume of his career (14.3 FGApg), almost four shots less than the season below.

I think minds are mostly made up about Towns, and I think that's kinda what you are referring to here. However, his "issues" (whining, fouls, lack of winning) are largely correctable. The question next year will become whether what he provides will be worth the money he makes. That's why improving in those areas is important for him.

I also think a season of relative health will be important for his narrative. His fall from being an iron-man pre-COVID to missing a large chunk of time in three of the last four seasons is just as big of an effect on his narrative as his on-court production has been.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#350 » by Baseline81 » Wed May 24, 2023 7:35 pm

Klomp wrote:Brought this over from the trade thread...

Baseline81 wrote:I am not on the "Towns must go" ship -- even I recognize his value. However, I just don't see, at this point, how it will increase much more than it already is. One, with Edwards' emergence, he's no longer the first option on offense. Two, he'll continue playing next to Gobert. As such, his numbers will never reach what they did prior to the trade. And finally, his salary will only look worse ($36M in 2023-24 to $$49M in 2024-25).


If Towns can retain his efficiency on a lower volume and team success comes with it, his value absolutely can improve. Lower volume can also allow Towns to focus more of his energy on defense. KAT's most efficient scoring season of his career came in 2017-18 (the Butler season). It was his second-lowest shooting volume of his career (14.3 FGApg), almost four shots less than the season below.

I think minds are mostly made up about Towns, and I think that's kinda what you are referring to here. However, his "issues" (whining, fouls, lack of winning) are largely correctable. The question next year will become whether what he provides will be worth the money he makes. That's why improving in those areas is important for him.

I also think a season of relative health will be important for his narrative. His fall from being an iron-man pre-COVID to missing a large chunk of time in three of the last four seasons is just as big of an effect on his narrative as his on-court production has been.

Are they?

I want to believe they are, however, we, as a collective, have been bringing up "these" same issues for several years now. As some point, he is who he is, Klomp.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#351 » by Klomp » Wed May 24, 2023 7:57 pm

Baseline81 wrote:I want to believe they are, however, we, as a collective, have been bringing up "these" same issues for several years now. As some point, he is who he is, Klomp.

Just because someone fails to find a solution to a problem right away does not mean that the problem is unsolvable.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#352 » by Baseline81 » Wed May 24, 2023 8:03 pm

Klomp wrote:Just because someone fails to find a solution to a problem right away does not mean that the problem is unsolvable.

True, however, what are the odds he corrects them at this point of his career? Would you even give it 50-50? I wouldn't.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#353 » by Klomp » Wed May 24, 2023 8:12 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Just because someone fails to find a solution to a problem right away does not mean that the problem is unsolvable.

True, however, what are the odds he corrects them at this point of his career? Would you even give it 50-50? I wouldn't.

Maybe not solved, but in a smaller role those issues aren't as magnified.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#354 » by wolves_89 » Wed May 24, 2023 8:54 pm

I'm fairly confident that if KAT is healthy next season he will be in the running for an All-NBA spot. Since his rookie season he's been All-NBA or just missed making it every year he's been healthy. If KAT can stay on the court next year, I have little doubt he will have a massive impact on the team's success. I'm hopeful that by the end of next season the idea of trading KAT will seem ridiculous.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#355 » by urinesane » Wed May 24, 2023 9:31 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
Klomp wrote:Brought this over from the trade thread...

Baseline81 wrote:I am not on the "Towns must go" ship -- even I recognize his value. However, I just don't see, at this point, how it will increase much more than it already is. One, with Edwards' emergence, he's no longer the first option on offense. Two, he'll continue playing next to Gobert. As such, his numbers will never reach what they did prior to the trade. And finally, his salary will only look worse ($36M in 2023-24 to $$49M in 2024-25).


If Towns can retain his efficiency on a lower volume and team success comes with it, his value absolutely can improve. Lower volume can also allow Towns to focus more of his energy on defense. KAT's most efficient scoring season of his career came in 2017-18 (the Butler season). It was his second-lowest shooting volume of his career (14.3 FGApg), almost four shots less than the season below.

I think minds are mostly made up about Towns, and I think that's kinda what you are referring to here. However, his "issues" (whining, fouls, lack of winning) are largely correctable. The question next year will become whether what he provides will be worth the money he makes. That's why improving in those areas is important for him.

I also think a season of relative health will be important for his narrative. His fall from being an iron-man pre-COVID to missing a large chunk of time in three of the last four seasons is just as big of an effect on his narrative as his on-court production has been.

Are they?

I want to believe they are, however, we, as a collective, have been bringing up "these" same issues for several years now. As some point, he is who he is, Klomp.


1.) Whining - I think everyone needs to take an objective view at KAT post injury this season. While it didn't get much attention, the difference in his demeanor towards refs/whining about calls was drastically different. Sure there were still a few blips here and there, but he was much better about it to the point where I think he can definitely change in that regard.

2.) Fouls - Without having the pressure to be a rim protector/defensive anchor as a big man, I think that inherently will give him potential to lessen his fouling, but that will come with time and trusting Gobert and other teammates. On offense he has to learn to use Gobert/floaters more, so that he doesn't get charges when he commits to a drive and defenses see it coming (and take an easy charge). On defense he needs to understand that there is help potential with Gobert/Jaden/Edwards, so that when he gets a bad angle, he doesn't try to go for a Gorgui style desperate block to make up for it. If he knows someone is behind him with the potential to help, he won't have to feel the need to try and save the basket (also I think understanding that giving up an easy basket here and there is better compared to picking up a foul often times).

3.) Winning - it's a team sport at the end of the day and when KAT hasn't had to be the undisputed top guy carrying the team, the Wolves have won games. It's just that most of the rosters in his 8 years have been so bad that outside of playing like a league MVP, they didn't really have much potential to win. It's rare for a single player to be the catalyst to team success, but KAT is definitely not an empty stats guy, he like most other very good players, needs a supporting cast around him that produces... which is what they have now. For the first time they have a team that without KAT can be .500, that doesn't mean they should get rid of KAT, it means that it's no longer all on him (and that's a good thing!).
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#356 » by BlacJacMac » Wed May 24, 2023 9:40 pm

wolves_89 wrote:I'm fairly confident that if KAT is healthy next season he will be in the running for an All-NBA spot. Since his rookie season he's been All-NBA or just missed making it every year he's been healthy. If KAT can stay on the court next year, I have little doubt he will have a massive impact on the team's success. I'm hopeful that by the end of next season the idea of trading KAT will seem ridiculous.


He's made 3rd team two out of eight seasons.

Still a VERY big accomplishment, but not quite the "every year" narrative.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#357 » by urinesane » Wed May 24, 2023 10:04 pm

BlacJacMac wrote:
wolves_89 wrote:I'm fairly confident that if KAT is healthy next season he will be in the running for an All-NBA spot. Since his rookie season he's been All-NBA or just missed making it every year he's been healthy. If KAT can stay on the court next year, I have little doubt he will have a massive impact on the team's success. I'm hopeful that by the end of next season the idea of trading KAT will seem ridiculous.


He's made 3rd team two out of eight seasons.

Still a VERY big accomplishment, but not quite the "every year" narrative.


I think you missed the last part of that sentence you highlighted "or just missed making it every year he's been healthy.".
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#358 » by Klomp » Wed May 24, 2023 10:20 pm

For the record...

2016-17: Was the fourth center by 4 points (DeAndre Jordan)
2017-18: Third team
2018-19: Was the fourth center
2019-20: Missed 31 games
2020-21: Missed 22 games
2021-22: Third team
2022-23: Missed 53 games
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#359 » by Norseman79 » Wed May 24, 2023 10:44 pm

Ok, now how will he do as a PF because he won't be considered a C playing next to Gobert.

Towns is a great basketball player when physically and mentally right. He has gone through stuff that I wish on no person due to COVID. His skill level is among highest in league for his position of C. He would be a great number 3 on a championship team. Let him be Bosh.

My biggest issues with Kat are simply health, salary and head stuff on the court....as well with fit, but that's not a Towns issue that's a Wolves issue.
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Re: **The Official Karl-Anthony Towns Thread: Part Two** 

Post#360 » by m2002brian » Wed May 24, 2023 11:01 pm

The hope and positivity that “value” can go up IF a b and c go such a way is all good. Let’s stick to actual facts please not hope and wishes. Also, let’s stop ignoring the new CBA. Tim can’t come in and just trade away the franchise cornerstone in his first year, but with Ant taking that spot and Karl’s fit and other issues, that may be what’s going to happen in year 2. Of course they are going to sell the picture of keeping the core and not trading X and Y players. That’s would definitely trash any players trade value. But…
Here’s the KAT facts…

Foul issues - fact
Health issues -fact
Salary issues - fact
Fit issues - fact
Basketball iq issues - fact
Mental Toughness issues - fact

Can they be corrected - maybe
All of them in one season - not likely

The new CBA and these facts make it much more likely that the best move is to move on.
It’s not hating, it’s just being realistic. Sorry for not being an idealistic nirvana positivity man.
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