2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[Reeko]

Looks like the board wants one of Bufkin, Coulibaly or Wallace (if he's there).

[Kevin Willis]

Coulibaly and George look bad. I changed my mind about them, I don't see either panning out. I would go with Wallace, safest options are usually the best ones. In our range Wallace should be available if he isn't draft Cissoko.

If you want safe go with Colby Jones. 50/40/65 - 15/6/4.5. Stock - 2. Height 6'4". Wingspan 6'8". Same vertical as Sasser and Bailey. Safer SG than both Coulibaly and George plus he can contribute next season.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[ATLTimekeeper]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Shams with the hard hitting questions about favourite snacks and cars.

I'm already out on this kid, but the PR message of "lesson learned" is tone deaf. Just say you're not allowed to talk about it.

[WuTang_CMB]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Shams with the hard hitting questions about favourite snacks and cars.

I'm already out on this kid, but the PR message of "lesson learned" is tone deaf. Just say you're not allowed to talk about it.

He wouldn't be doing the interview if that was the case.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Watch on YouTube

I think these guys are spot on. Bufkin is about as safe a bet as there is outside of the top 2, with some untapped potential.

Him, Hendricks, Colby Jones and Sasser are all gonna be good next season and people are gonna wonder why they were mocked low.

All 4 of those guys have great advanced stats and pass the eye test. For all the love George gets, Bufkin is still technically younger and put up BETTER numbers when he was put in a ball dominant role when Jett Howard went down. I'd find it hard to belief he won't be really good

I'd love Bufkin and one of Sasser or Jones (but it'd probably be Bilal) if we managed to snag another late first in a FVV S&T. Maybe if Boucher is moved for a second we can get Pods or Maxwell Lewis

[dozo]

https://theswishtheory.com/analysis/2023/05/the-problem-with-player-comps/

This was discussed a couple of days ago.

The Truth About NBA Draft History

The cold hard truth is most players drafted don’t have successful NBA careers.

I looked at 30 draft classes from when the NBA draft became just two rounds in 1989 up through 2018. In that time 1742 players were drafted. If you had to guess, how many of those players found NBA success? 

Only 10% of the players in those 30 drafts have been All-Stars.
Only 6% have made an All-NBA team. 
Only 4% have made an All-Defensive team. 
Only 1% have been named Defensive Player of the Year.
Only 1% have been named Most Valuable Player.

But those measures are for the best of the NBA of course the odds are low. And those aren’t the only criteria for NBA success you might say. And you’d be right.

Of those 1742 players over three decades of drafts, only 27% had a 10+ season NBA career. And only 53% of them made it to year five in their NBA careers. 

That’s right. Almost half of those players drafted did not last longer than a current rookie scale deal. 

The cold hard truth is most players drafted don’t have successful NBA careers.

Our brains compel us to compare draft prospects to successful NBA players despite the FACT that most prospects will not find NBA success. This is a problem.

[Rapsfan07]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

[Rapsfan07]

Ricky Council is still my favorite player in this draft, but we don't have a 2nd

Council is a joy to watch, honestly. Reminds of a prime JR Smith. If he ever gets a reliable 3-ball, he's going to be a solid rotation player.

[Rapsfan07]

I'd take Cason if he's there. O.G. also fell due to injury concerns.

100%

It's down to him or Bufkin for me.

[Rapsfan07]

Coulibaly and George look bad. I changed my mind about them, I don't see either panning out. I would go with Wallace, safest options are usually the best ones. In our range Wallace should be available if he isn't draft Cissoko.

If you want safe go with Colby Jones. 50/40/65 - 15/6/4.5. Stock - 2. Height 6'4". Wingspan 6'8". Same vertical as Sasser and Bailey. Safer SG than both Coulibaly and George plus he can contribute next season.

I've always loved Jones. Some team is going to be very very happy with him.

[ItsDanger]

https://theswishtheory.com/analysis/2023/05/the-problem-with-player-comps/

This was discussed a couple of days ago.

The Truth About NBA Draft History

The cold hard truth is most players drafted don’t have successful NBA careers.

I looked at 30 draft classes from when the NBA draft became just two rounds in 1989 up through 2018. In that time 1742 players were drafted. If you had to guess, how many of those players found NBA success? 

Only 10% of the players in those 30 drafts have been All-Stars.
Only 6% have made an All-NBA team. 
Only 4% have made an All-Defensive team. 
Only 1% have been named Defensive Player of the Year.
Only 1% have been named Most Valuable Player.

But those measures are for the best of the NBA of course the odds are low. And those aren’t the only criteria for NBA success you might say. And you’d be right.

Of those 1742 players over three decades of drafts, only 27% had a 10+ season NBA career. And only 53% of them made it to year five in their NBA careers. 

That’s right. Almost half of those players drafted did not last longer than a current rookie scale deal. 

The cold hard truth is most players drafted don’t have successful NBA careers.

Our brains compel us to compare draft prospects to successful NBA players despite the FACT that most prospects will not find NBA success. This is a problem.

Don't agree with this "success" methodology AT ALL. Need to break it down in a different manner. For me, a guy who played 10 years in a tier 1 or 2 below all star level at #20 is great value. A guy who is chosen at #40 who fills a role temporarily is great value.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I'd take Cason if he's there. O.G. also fell due to injury concerns.

100%

It's down to him or Bufkin for me.

At the same time, as valuable as OG is, he still gets hurt a lot.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

[niQ]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

I think most people want a guard because we already have OG.

Now whether OG's still on the team next season or the one after that...

[HumbleRen]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

Dunking is important but the most important thing is a guard who can get down hill and create rim pressure.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

I think most people want a guard because we already have OG.

We have him under contract for one more year, and I think he can also play with another player like him. The only time BPA should come into question is if it's like stacking ball dominant guards or Cs. Wings can share the floor in a number of combinations in today's NBA, and then you see where skill development takes you.

[Psubs]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

Jimmy Butler is showing how unimportant to success a Tyler Herro is to winning. Just plug in Strus and Martin like players for the MLE or less and you can get by. We first saw how useless (now overpaid) Jordan Poole can be. They will put up points and get paid a lot but not help you win. You need the elite ones like Jamal Murray or a Jrue Holiday that brings defense to help win.

[DreamTeam09]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

I'd like a PG who can dunk, it allows for a few extra wrinkles.

- not useless in the dunkers spot
- more options along the baseline
- Better rim attacker
-More options in transitions

It's definitely not the end all be all, I'd just like to see the change as well. Granted I have a bias for big guards tho

[Psubs]

I don't think we should be looking at Coulibaly at ALL with #13. Maybe not even with extra picks that we may acquire.

He may turn into something later but we have enough of these lengthy, non skilled guys. We don't need any more.

What we need is some guards who can create their own shot and put pressure on the rim offensively and preferably can actually dunk the basketball (when was the last time we had a PG that could actually dunk? lol)

But yeah, enough of these toolsy forwards. Let's get a scoring guard.

How important is it for a PG to dunk? Seems trivial, and just more emotional reaction of how the Raptors were last year. If you don't like Coulibaly as a prospect, that's fine, but if you looked back 5 years from now and he was the best player in the draft available at 13 I think you wouldn't support your current position.

Personally I'm down on most of the guards, so I'm more willing to take the risk. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted Podziemski or Bufkin at 13, but I feel like we would have been reaching for what ultimately looks like a 3rd guard in a draft slot where I think you should expect a starter.

But it does bring up another divisive question. Would you rather have OG, or Tyler Herro on this team?

Dunking is important but the most important thing is a guard who can get down hill and create rim pressure.

6'2 seems to be like what a 6'0 PG (Paul) used to be the minimum. I would say that dunking is fairly important in today's game to be a "3 level scorer". Tony Parker was best at layups but it's just harder these days against taller players.