2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[Jadoogar]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

[Grew]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.

If this mattered as much as on court ability and talent than Hendricks and the Thompson twins should fall precipitously

Bufkin put up 50/45/89 with a 63TS% averaging 17 ppg in his last 13 games of the season. I doubt he got there off fastbreaks and dump offs

UCF is exactly making to tournament year in and year out like Michigan. All 3 of those guys have positional size, above average NBA athleticism and at least one standout skill that will translate to the league. Bufkin has none of that. It will be interesting to see how he finishes at the rim in the NBA as a thin average athlete, but it's not going to be 70 percent.

This is just more stat quoting, you don't even know how he got there by your own account.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

Lmao literally what came to mind. I was heavy on the Bouknight hype train when I thought we'd pick 8th when we got Scottie. Dude was putting up half decent numbers on bad efficiency having to carry an offense so I thought he'd be amazing on a real team and made excuses for his shooting with the lack of spacing and his bad defense with his offensive load

I'm not taking my chances with that player archetype anymore

[Dalek]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

This is the problem, and it extends from Bouknight to guys like Jordan Poole. These smaller scoring guards are great in the regular season and can catch a 20 point game from time to time, but in the clutch and in the playoffs they get played off the floor because they are targets on defense and they lack elite scoring ability.

Unless you can stop NBA guards as a POA defender and even guard up a position or two, it is tough to see a future unless you are an elite shotmaker like Jamal Murray or D'Aaron Fox or Brunson or Mitchell. These 2023 draft combo guards are all on the small side and likely not going to be huge factors on defense.

Long-term, guys like Bufkin, Hawkins, George, Smith Jr. are all 6 man types at best unless they take a fairly unprecedently leap in scoring efficiency. Guys like Wallace, Black and maybe Hood-Schifino have a shot at starting because of their size and defensive potential but the question about whether these guys have starter level offense is another consideration.

[Reeko]

People not showing any love for Gradey anymore.

[Grew]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

Honestly, it's highly unlikely we find high end talent at 13 so that's something we shouldn't put a lot of emphasis on. I would rather focus on someone with a high floor than a high ceiling.

Secondly, what's the difference between Keyonte George and James Bouknight?

I'd rather shoot for the moon on this pick than play it safe. Everyone around here likes to call Bouknight a bust after year 2, but that's too early, especially when he got drafted by the Hornets... Bouknight obviously has some issues off court because he passed out in his car in the middle of the street holding a gun. Still more talented than Bufkin.

If George has a Bouknight brain than we should stay away. Hard to know how these kids are perceived by teams as far as their mental makeup. All I can see is on court mentality, George looks like a killer, Bufkin looks to defer. If we want a bench player he's a fine pick. If we want someone to slot beside Scottie as the future of this team going forward, I would look elsewhere.

It's not just George for me, I like almost every other perimeter player slotted near the first round better than Bufkin. JHS is my other DND. I'd rather move back and get two players than choose Bufkin at 13.

[Reeko]

After 1 minute of highlights, I’m loving Jordan Hawkins’ game.

[grant101]

People not showing any love for Gradey anymore.

My guess is that most think he'll be off the board. If Gradey is still available at 13, he's a no-brainer I would think. That shot is beautiful, and his cutting is very underrated. He pairs perfectly with Scottie IMO

[UnbelievablyRAW]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.

If this mattered as much as on court ability and talent than Hendricks and the Thompson twins should fall precipitously

Bufkin put up 50/45/89 with a 63TS% averaging 17 ppg in his last 13 games of the season. I doubt he got there off fastbreaks and dump offs

UCF is exactly making to tournament year in and year out like Michigan. All 3 of those guys have positional size, above average NBA athleticism and at least one standout skill that will translate to the league. Bufkin has none of that. It will be interesting to see how he finishes at the rim in the NBA as a thin average athlete, but it's not going to be 70 percent.

This is just more stat quoting, you don't even know how he got there by your own account.

I guess the tape I watched of him looking great getting the ball downhill on the catch running off screens didn't exist, or his lefty off angle floaters looking good and his flashes of ability to have counter moves when ball handling and reacting to defense. His nascent playmaking skills in PnR looked good in my eyes but he obviously isn't a pg. Care to show proof his numbers are fools gold?

Its funny that Keyonte has none of these yet you think he should be evaluated higher than Kobe lol. What elite skill does Keyonte have? His shot form? Also Bufkin is taller and bigger in weight than Keyonte is currently.

[WuTang_CMB]

After 1 minute of highlights, I’m loving Jordan Hawkins’ game.

Would love to get him with a great offensive minded coach

[Jadoogar]

People not showing any love for Gradey anymore.

My guess is that most think he'll be off the board. If Gradey is still available at 13, he's a no-brainer I would think. That shot is beautiful, and his cutting is very underrated. He pairs perfectly with Scottie IMO

Yea i would love to get him but the absolute lowest i see him fall is 11. Orlando would love his shooting.

[Grew]

If this mattered as much as on court ability and talent than Hendricks and the Thompson twins should fall precipitously

Bufkin put up 50/45/89 with a 63TS% averaging 17 ppg in his last 13 games of the season. I doubt he got there off fastbreaks and dump offs

UCF is exactly making to tournament year in and year out like Michigan. All 3 of those guys have positional size, above average NBA athleticism and at least one standout skill that will translate to the league. Bufkin has none of that. It will be interesting to see how he finishes at the rim in the NBA as a thin average athlete, but it's not going to be 70 percent.

This is just more stat quoting, you don't even know how he got there by your own account.

I guess the tape I watched of him looking great getting the ball on the catch running off screens didn't exist, or his lefty off angle floaters looking good and his flashes of ability to have counter moves when ball handling and reacting to defense. His nascent playmaking skills in PnR looked good in my eyes but he obviously isn't a pg. Care to show proof his numbers are fools gold?

Its funny that Keyonte has none of these yet you think he should be evaluated higher than Kobe lol. What elite skill does Keyonte have? His shot form?

I never said elite skill I said skill that will translate to the NBA. For Keyonte it's his bag, he's got NBA level moves, stuff that works for Murray/Mitchell. He's got on ball upside as well as off ball. He shoots an effortless catch and shoot 3 ball at a good percentage, has some ability as a movement shooter off screens. He's also got an underrated first step with a big body more suited for the NBA than Bufkin. I think in NBA spacing he thrives. You have to commit to his development but he's got the upside of someone like Jamal Murray skillset wise.

I'm not saying Bufkin's college numbers are fools gold, I just don't see him being given the ball in the NBA as a lead guard. I'm more confident in Keyonte off ball if neither can make that leap, as he is a more natural shooter. I think Bufkin ends up a bench guy. What role do you see him thriving in at the NBA level?

[Clutch0z24]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.

I like both Bufkin/George i just watch Bufkins tape and i see his game translate to a higher NBA ceiling than George....Bufkins ball handling and his ISO game impresses me....I like the rim finishing as well that shows when he gets to the rim hes able to finish in a variety of ways....George looks good as well just if i had to rank them id have Bufkin 1st on my board....I don't really look at athletic ability when im evaluating a talent cause most players that rely on athletics don't always last the longest in the NBA...

Bufkin to me just has that game where you can look at him and just tell hes a "Hooper" and i feel we need that on our team atm...

Atm my board would be

Bufkin
Wallace
George

Id be happy with any of them...But at the end of the day i trust in Masai drafting so whoever he takes ill be fine with.

[Clutch0z24]

The next Raptor Goat

[Grew]

The Bufkin love on this board is astounding to me. Everyone knows we lack high end talent yet you would settle for the low ceiling high floor guard of the draft.

This kid had an extra season of sitting on the bench and practicing to figure out the college game, which is a totally different game than the NBA. Stepped on the court every night believing Hunter Dickinson was the best player on his team. Went to a blue chip school where he put up decent numbers to NOT EVEN MAKE THE TOURNAMENT. I guess the numbers on a bad team thing doesn't matter for college?

In contrast Keyonte George scores more point (albeit inefficiently) on a team with multiple upper classman guards who think it's their team, yet Keyonte swaggers on the court believing he's the best player on it. Baylor earned a 3rd seed in the tournament.

When comparing these two to what our team needs, the choice is clear to me. Did you guys watch a lot of Bufkin? Or is this mostly looking at his percentage at the rim and the highlight vids. This guy isn't another Fox just because he finishes at the rim with his left hand. How much are we putting stock in his name being Kobe?

Obviously if we draft him I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see the mentality/physicality that's going to propel this kid into becoming anything significant in the NBA. I think he's an 8th man on a good team at his peak. I would love it if the hype he's getting made a team in front of us draft him.

I like both Bufkin/George i just watch Bufkins tape and i see his game translate to a higher NBA ceiling than George....Bufkins ball handling and his ISO game impresses me....I like the rim finishing as well that shows when he gets to the rim hes able to finish in a variety of ways....George looks good as well just if i had to rank them id have Bufkin 1st on my board....I don't really look at athletic ability when im evaluating a talent cause most players that rely on athletics don't always last the longest in the NBA...

Bufkin to me just has that game where you can look at him and just tell hes a "Hooper" and i feel we need that on our team atm...

Atm my board would be

Bufkin
Wallace
George

Id be happy with any of them...But at the end of the day i trust in Masai drafting so whoever he takes ill be fine with.

What do you see Bufkin's ceiling as? I see the Fox comp on here, but Fox is the fastest guy in the league, and a much better vertical athlete. I see the poole/quickley comps, but they are also better athletes and better shooters. Who is this guy at an NBA level? Is he a lead guard?

[Dalek]

Apparently this Toronto-based writer Esfandiar Barajeni confirms that Max Lewis has already worked out for the Raptors. Kind of explains that Raptor's shorts. Read into it what you will, I just think he is likely BPA at 13.

Read on Twitter

[Grew]

Apparently this Toronto-based writer Esfandiar Barajeni confirms that Max Lewis has already worked out for the Raptors. Kind of explains that Raptor's shorts. Read into it what you will, I just think he is likely BPA at 13.

Read on Twitter

If we picked Max at 13 I would be quite happy because they must really see something in him. Has that smooth Tatum style game and measured bigger than I expected. Would be a very interesting pick.

[Kevin Willis]

People not showing any love for Gradey anymore.

I like DIck. I've always liked Dick since the beginning of the season. Let's see if we get to see him for a workout.

[Kevin Willis]

The next Raptor Goat

Looks like Jaden Smith.

[Kevin Willis]

After 1 minute of highlights, I’m loving Jordan Hawkins’ game.

Ha ha ha ha - that's funny.