Top 20 All Time?

[pipfan]

This list is getting very tough, and will only get more challenging with Luka/Jokic/Giannis growing into it. Here's who I have as FOR SURE top 20 guys-no logical argument can keep them out

MJ/LBJ/KAJ/Wilt/Russell/Shaq/Duncan/Magic/Bird/Hakeem/Curry/Kobe-that's my GOAT 12, not necessarily the order, but I don't see how any of those players can be out of a top 20 list all time.

Then, I would say West/Oscar/Dr. J/KG/Moses HAVE TO BE in a top 20-just too many accomplishments to be left out.

So, assuming most would agree with the 2nd group-that only leaves 3 for the final spots.

[SHAQ32]

I would say first of all that KG doesn't have to be top 20.

But I'd go with Stockton, Malone, and Dirk. If taking out KG I'd add CP3.

[Colbinii]

Why are we starting threads assuming we all have the same 85% of players in the Top 20?

Seems completely pointless. The voting isn't telling us anything.

[eminence]

Of those listed I’d pick Mikan/Dirk/Robinson top 3

On my personal list I’d also flip the Malones. And maybe someone out for CP3, but unsure.

[pipfan]

Why are we starting threads assuming we all have the same 85% of players in the Top 20?

Seems completely pointless. The voting isn't telling us anything.

I would assume everyone shares the first 12 names-that they are all top 20 players

The next 5 are more difficult-but by limiting it to three last names I am trying to include more options. Of those 5 (Moses/West/Big O/KG/Dr J)-which do you think are not "for sure" in the top 20?

I know it's arbitrary, but I follow the boards and see who most people seem to have high on their lists. I would be surprised if the 17 names I have are not in the top 20 this summer when this board does another consensus GOAT list.

Anyway, it's just for fun

[wojoaderge]

I have Mikan, KD, Pettit, and CP3 in my Top 20

[pipfan]

I have Mikan, KD, Pettit, and CP3 in my Top 20

Interesting-I thought about adding CP3 and Pettit as options in the poll. Which of my 17 "locks" do you have out then?
thanks

[migya]

Robinson is a definite and I just don't think Curry has done enough yet, he has only had some ten years prime, two more seasons and he is a definite. Stockton is underrated, his impact was among the best ever.

[SpreeS]

Oscar
West
Dirk
Malone
Durant
Garnett
Erving
Robinson

[70sFan]

Robinson is a definite and I just don't think Curry has done enough yet, he has only had some ten years prime, two more seasons and he is a definite. Stockton is underrated, his impact was among the best ever.

How Robinson is a definite then? Robinson himself has a short prime (comparable in length to Curry).

Note - I have both inside my top 20.

[migya]

Robinson is a definite and I just don't think Curry has done enough yet, he has only had some ten years prime, two more seasons and he is a definite. Stockton is underrated, his impact was among the best ever.

How Robinson is a definite then? Robinson himself has a short prime (comparable in length to Curry).

Note - I have both inside my top 20.

His impact on the game was significantly greater

[70sFan]

Robinson is a definite and I just don't think Curry has done enough yet, he has only had some ten years prime, two more seasons and he is a definite. Stockton is underrated, his impact was among the best ever.

How Robinson is a definite then? Robinson himself has a short prime (comparable in length to Curry).

Note - I have both inside my top 20.

His impact on the game was significantly greater

That's arguable and far from given, but if we assume that then why do you have Robinson outside of top 10?

[Colbinii]

Robinson is a definite and I just don't think Curry has done enough yet, he has only had some ten years prime, two more seasons and he is a definite. Stockton is underrated, his impact was among the best ever.

You say Robinson is definitely in yet Curry lacks longevity. I dont think Robinson's prime is more than 10 years.

[IdolW0rm]

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Duncan
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Bird
11. Oscar
12. Curry
13. West
14. Erving
15. Robinson
16. Dirk
17. Kobe
18. KG
19. Giannis
20. Durant

Am lower on Kobe than most. Might have Jokic nr. 20 by the end of the postseason.

[migya]

How Robinson is a definite then? Robinson himself has a short prime (comparable in length to Curry).

Note - I have both inside my top 20.

His impact on the game was significantly greater

That's arguable and far from given, but if we assume that then why do you have Robinson outside of top 10?

Those top ten players either had more impact and/or better careers.

[Colbinii]

His impact on the game was significantly greater

That's arguable and far from given, but if we assume that then why do you have Robinson outside of top 10?

Those top ten players either had more impact and/or better careers.

Curry also has a better career than Robinson.

[Owly]

Why are we starting threads assuming we all have the same 85% of players in the Top 20?

Seems completely pointless. The voting isn't telling us anything.

I would assume everyone shares the first 12 names-that they are all top 20 players

I concur with Colbinii.
First only on a philosophical level I think it's not great practice.
Secondarily, as you note, that 85% covers beyond the 12 to the 17.
Thirdly it depends on the audience but just looking at published lists whilst there may well also be some groupthink just asking enough people you will always see difference. Someone recently had LeBron at 23 (viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2261392)... not to endorse that view.

I'm sure I've seen views on Curry that suggest not top 20 though maybe the title quieted that?
I can see a case that Kobe belongs with a Nowitzki ... similarly productive, think the long-term RAPMs somewhat clearly favor Dirk.
In the second list I can very easily see (i.e. I possess ...) a view that has Erving out of the top 20 ... perhaps a considerable way out. The 76ers era impact stuff, however noisy, would kill a modern player's candidacy and I think it does for him.

It doesn't really matter but the baked in assumptions would, I think, tend to hurt the debate and, more so, mess with the poll, for whatever that matters (if people don't bother engaging in the chat then at best we get their top three, but not necessarily all those who would be in the top 20), though for me the discussion would be the more important thing.

[pipfan]

Why are we starting threads assuming we all have the same 85% of players in the Top 20?

Seems completely pointless. The voting isn't telling us anything.

I would assume everyone shares the first 12 names-that they are all top 20 players

I concur with Colbinii.
First only on a philosophical level I think it's not great practice.
Secondarily, as you note, that 85% covers beyond the 12 to the 17.
Thirdly it depends on the audience but just looking at published lists whilst there may well also be some groupthink just asking enough people you will always see difference. Someone recently had LeBron at 23 (viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2261392)... not to endorse that view.

I'm sure I've seen views on Curry that suggest not top 20 though maybe the title quieted that?
I can see a case that Kobe belongs with a Nowitzki ... similarly productive, think the long-term RAPMs somewhat clearly favor Dirk.
In the second list I can very easily see (i.e. I possess ...) a view that has Erving out of the top 20 ... perhaps a considerable way out. The 76ers era impact stuff, however noisy, would kill a modern player's candidacy and I think it does for him.

It doesn't really matter but the baked in assumptions would, I think, tend to hurt the debate and, more so, mess with the poll, for whatever that matters (if people don't bother engaging in the chat then at best we get their top three, but not necessarily all those who would be in the top 20), though for me the discussion would be the more important thing.

Thanks for the good points, but I just like the polls-fine them interesting. This board seems like the highest level of BBall discussion possible (that I know of, at least). So I find it hard to believe a quality poster on the PC board would have LBJ out of the top 10, no matter the criteria.

I see the argument for Dr. J, but I think the ABA years have to count.
I like to see that the 3 I voted for (KD, DRob, Dirk) are leading the voting. OF COURSE, there are arguments for others, but I guess I don't see a logical argument to have the Big O or West out of the GOAT top 20.

[JasonStern]

Voted Jokic, Dirk, and Giannis. Wish there was a 4th option to sneak Wade in.

This will be a fun revisionist thread once nerdstalgia kicks in. Truly suspect that more respect will be given to players that won 'chips as a true #1 option with a supporting cast that history will remember being good, but not great/elite.
(YOU JUST JINXED JOKIC) <- Okay. Replace him with Butler.

[migya]

That's arguable and far from given, but if we assume that then why do you have Robinson outside of top 10?

Those top ten players either had more impact and/or better careers.

Curry also has a better career than Robinson.

No he hasn't. He has had much better teams and talent around him than Robinson.