How many teams would have beaten the 2017 Cavs?

[eminence]

Teams I’d say have real shots given the ‘17 rules and exclusion of the KD Warriors.

‘14 Spurs, ‘15/‘16 Warriors, ‘16 Thunder, ‘18 Rockets, ‘19 Raptors, ‘19 Sixers, ‘20 Lakers, ‘21 Bucks, ‘22 Warriors, ‘23 Nuggets

I expect teams pre-modern would just get strategically outclassed and find themselves unable to adjust. Otherwise I have pretty much every title contender in-era having a shot. Cavs were great, but not otherworldly. Warriors flattened em.

The 21 bucks and 23 nuggets seem like a stretch to me. The sweep obscures that the nuggets were in 3 games that could have gone either way against a team whose best two players both need foot surgery(one carrying a torn tendon). And the Bucks are probably better suited for the 15 cavs given how much work they made of the hawks and the nets. Rest is fine, though you probably need at least a little bit of retooling for the 14 spurs.

I know the conference competition was weak, but I'd give Cavs some benefit of the doubt based on 16 and 15 and even their toronto sweep in 18. If nothing else, I don't trust coach bud vs Lebron

Interesting, I actually like how the Nuggets match up pretty well.

I think my list of actual picks would be the Raptors, Lakers, ‘22 Warriors, and Nuggets.

[PistolPeteJR]

Teams I’d say have real shots given the ‘17 rules and exclusion of the KD Warriors.

‘14 Spurs, ‘15/‘16 Warriors, ‘16 Thunder, ‘18 Rockets, ‘19 Raptors, ‘19 Sixers, ‘20 Lakers, ‘21 Bucks, ‘22 Warriors, ‘23 Nuggets

I expect teams pre-modern would just get strategically outclassed and find themselves unable to adjust. Otherwise I have pretty much every title contender in-era having a shot. Cavs were great, but not otherworldly. Warriors flattened em.

The 21 bucks and 23 nuggets seem like a stretch to me. The sweep obscures that the nuggets were in 3 games that could have gone either way against a team whose best two players both need foot surgery(one carrying a torn tendon). And the Bucks are probably better suited for the 15 cavs given how much work they made of the hawks and the nets. Rest is fine, though you probably need at least a little bit of retooling for the 14 spurs.

I know the conference competition was weak, but I'd give Cavs some benefit of the doubt based on 16 and 15 and even their toronto sweep in 18. If nothing else, I don't trust coach bud vs Lebron

Interesting, I actually like how the Nuggets match up pretty well.

I think my list of actual picks would be the Raptors, Lakers, ‘22 Warriors, and Nuggets.

I don't think the '22 Warriors have much of a chance against them. What's the argument for it? No one's defending '17 LeBron on that team. No Iggy despite LeBron killing it against that entire roster that year, and inferior '22 Wiggins and '22 Porter Jr would be even worse, '22 Green < '17 Green. '22 Klay < '17 Klay, '17 Kyrie would absolutely torch the '22 Warriors as a result because given he torched peak Klay, I see him torching Payton Jr even more. Instead of just Curry to hunt, now LeBron and Kyrie have Poole to hunt as well. No 7ft KD either with his length inside, which means the Warriors are even smaller with only Looney in there. LeBron would be even more ruthless in the paint.

That Cavs team was absolutely deadly, ATG-type. We forget, we really do.

[eminence]

The 21 bucks and 23 nuggets seem like a stretch to me. The sweep obscures that the nuggets were in 3 games that could have gone either way against a team whose best two players both need foot surgery(one carrying a torn tendon). And the Bucks are probably better suited for the 15 cavs given how much work they made of the hawks and the nets. Rest is fine, though you probably need at least a little bit of retooling for the 14 spurs.

I know the conference competition was weak, but I'd give Cavs some benefit of the doubt based on 16 and 15 and even their toronto sweep in 18. If nothing else, I don't trust coach bud vs Lebron

Interesting, I actually like how the Nuggets match up pretty well.

I think my list of actual picks would be the Raptors, Lakers, ‘22 Warriors, and Nuggets.

I don't think the '22 Warriors have much of a chance against them. What's the argument for it? No one's defending '17 LeBron on that team. No Iggy despite LeBron killing it against that entire roster that year, and inferior '22 Wiggins and '22 Porter Jr would be even worse, '22 Green < '17 Green. '22 Klay < '17 Klay, '17 Kyrie would absolutely torch the '22 Warriors as a result because given he torched peak Klay, I see him torching Payton Jr even more. Instead of just Curry to hunt, now LeBron and Kyrie have Poole to hunt as well. No 7ft KD either with his length inside, which means the Warriors are even smaller with only Looney in there. LeBron would be even more ruthless in the paint.

That Cavs team was absolutely deadly, ATG-type. We forget, we really do.

I’d take Wiggins pretty cleanly over Iggy at that point, though arguably a worse matchup. Looney is literally smaller, but certainly doesn’t play smaller than KD, that’s a significant interior upgrade imo.

[PistolPeteJR]

Interesting, I actually like how the Nuggets match up pretty well.

I think my list of actual picks would be the Raptors, Lakers, ‘22 Warriors, and Nuggets.

I don't think the '22 Warriors have much of a chance against them. What's the argument for it? No one's defending '17 LeBron on that team. No Iggy despite LeBron killing it against that entire roster that year, and inferior '22 Wiggins and '22 Porter Jr would be even worse, '22 Green < '17 Green. '22 Klay < '17 Klay, '17 Kyrie would absolutely torch the '22 Warriors as a result because given he torched peak Klay, I see him torching Payton Jr even more. Instead of just Curry to hunt, now LeBron and Kyrie have Poole to hunt as well. No 7ft KD either with his length inside, which means the Warriors are even smaller with only Looney in there. LeBron would be even more ruthless in the paint.

That Cavs team was absolutely deadly, ATG-type. We forget, we really do.

I’d take Wiggins pretty cleanly over Iggy at that point, though arguably a worse matchup. Looney is literally smaller, but certainly doesn’t play smaller than KD, that’s a significant interior upgrade imo.

2022 Looney was nowhere near as effective as 2023 Looney as being a good defensive garbageman. I don't think he makes a world of a difference either way. As for you taking '22 Wiggins over '17 Iggy, I can't say much to that outside of simply disagreeing completely with you. '17 Iggy >> '22 Wiggins on defense.

[prolific passer]

Not sure any clearly would.

The 92 Bulls(imo the best Bulls team), 01 Lakers, 87 Lakers and 86 Celtics just don't have enough threes in them. If those teams are transported into the modern era and have some time to acclimate themselves, then that's a different story. But straight away transportation, I'm not sure how they'd survive without taking threes.

Insane 3pt disparity is hard to ignore.

I honestly think they're the best team to not win a title.

I'd favor them over the 2018 Rockets, because of LeBron > Harden.

The first 3 peat bulls were better than the 2nd 3 peat bulls due to how young and athletic they were. 2nd 3 peat bulls relied more on defense. They were the oldest team in the league during the 2nd 3 peat.

[TheGOATRises007]

Meh, I think the 2017 Cavs coasted A LOT in the RS. In reality, they were like a 60+ win team with 8-9 SRS.

As for the comparisons vs the Rockets: I'm not sure the Rockets constant switching defense would work against the greatest playoff offense of all-time. LeBron could constantly hunt Harden on switches. Even Kyrie could. The Cavs' defense is weak, but I don't think the Rockets torch them like the Warriors did.

Also the 2017 Cavs actually got outscored less by a superior Warriors team than the Rockets against a weaker Warriors team.

was that true before cp3's injury?

I think it's only 5.5 points per game then, so it's not, but the Warriors were missing Iggy all series.

And the 2018 Warriors are worse than the 2017 Warriors.

[Djoker]

The 2017 Cavs were not a good defensive team ranked 22nd in DRtg. Lots of teams would beat them. Heck from 2017 alone, a healthy Spurs team would have probably beaten them. The 2018 Rockets would have beaten them as well. 2013 Spurs would have beaten them.

People bring up Lebron's ON Court rating against the Warriors (only -7 over five games) to make a point but that's hugely impacted by a largely meaningless blowout Game 4 win after being down 0-3 in the series. Warriors blew out the Cavs in three out of their four wins (all the home games 1, 2, 5) and it wasn't close.

[ardee]

Let's cut off since say, 2000 onward.

The only teams that I think have a shot are the 2001 Lakers, 2013 Heat (if healthy), 2014 Spurs and 2015-17 Warriors. Maaaaaybe the 2020 Lakers but I don't see it.

They were historically great, literally the GOAT Playoff offense. They would absolutely wax teams like the 2018 Rockets or 2019 Raptors.