Are Magic, Curry, Oscar, CP3 and Nash the de facto top 5 PGs?

ardee · Post #1 » by **ardee** » Sat May 27, 2023 8:48 am

Do you think anyone else has a strong argument to break this? I consider West a 2-guard, but if you consider him a PG he'd definitely be in there too, likely bumping out either CP3 or Nash.

iggymcfrack · Post #2 » by **iggymcfrack** » Sat May 27, 2023 9:00 am

I’d put Stockton in over Nash. Extremely underrated defender who had incredible impact stats even though they weren’t available until late in his career. 26 year RAPM had him #5 overall among all players even though it only catches his age 34-40 seasons. I would actually take him over Oscar and West as well. Let’s not forget either that he’s 5th all time in games played.

Post #3 » by **tsherkin** » Sat May 27, 2023 9:05 am

I'm comfortable with that top 5. Might put Stockton in over Paul, definitely not over Nash. West is another intriguing option, he was very good.

70sFan · Post #4 » by **70sFan** » Sat May 27, 2023 9:11 am

I count West as PG, so my top 5 is Oscar, West, Magic, Paul and Curry. I prefer Nash over Paul for peaks, but Chris has considerable advantage in career value. Stockton is probably in next tier, along with Kidd and Frazier.

rand · Post #5 » by **rand** » Sat May 27, 2023 10:01 am

Stockton over Nash.

Stockton has 4 more All-NBA selections and played in 50% more playoff games. We only have Stockton's late career impact numbers but they look great. Stockton crushed Nash in BPM (both regular season and playoffs) even if just the Phoenix seasons are counted. Stockton may not have been as good on defense but he was gigantically better defensively.

jdzimme3 · Post #6 » by **jdzimme3** » Sat May 27, 2023 12:22 pm

west and stockton > paul and nash

Post #7 » by **penbeast0** » Sat May 27, 2023 1:55 pm

Top tier is Magic, Curry, West, and Oscar, then there is a gap
Next tier is Stockton, Nash, Paul, Frazier, Harden, then another gap
Westbrook, Payton, Kidd, etc. fight it out for #10 with Westbrook taking it for me.

Kobeshow · Post #8 » by **Kobeshow** » Sat May 27, 2023 2:27 pm

It's funny because when I do all-decade teams for 00s, I can't pick between Nash and Kidd and here I see people telling me that Nash is in a completely different tier compared to Kidd...

I strongly disagree. Defense and rebounding are important too...

SilentA · Post #9 » by **SilentA** » Sat May 27, 2023 2:47 pm

I think Magic, Curry and Oscar are locks. West if considered a PG too.

The 4 and/or 5 is where reasonable but minor shifts in criteria can change things completely. Nash efficiency and offense, Stockton longevity and underrated defense, Kidd top tier defensive impact, CP3 solid overall impact, Isiah playoff results with underrated impact, Harden if you count him as a PG, Payton playmaking and defense combo, etc.

Post #10 » by **penbeast0** » Sat May 27, 2023 3:50 pm

Kobeshow wrote:It's funny because when I do all-decade teams for 00s, I can't pick between Nash and Kidd and here I see people telling me that Nash is in a completely different tier compared to Kidd...

I strongly disagree. Defense and rebounding are important too...

To be fair, I am lower on Kidd's offensive impact than most posters. Still, I see a clear gap between Nash and Kidd.

SHAQ32 · Post #11 » by **SHAQ32** » Sat May 27, 2023 4:25 pm

Kidd to be overrated per usual

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #12 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Sat May 27, 2023 4:26 pm

Stockton is clearly over Nash & Paul

Curry/Magic/Stockton/Oscar are the top 4. The rest can fight over the 5th spot.

rk2023 · Post #13 » by **rk2023** » Sat May 27, 2023 5:17 pm

Yes. Unless one would classify West as a point guard, I don’t find anybody else to take a potential T5 slot over this group of players.

wojoaderge · Post #14 » by **wojoaderge** » Sat May 27, 2023 5:27 pm

According to my updated NBA 72 list, the top 4 are the same for me. I have Clyde one spot ahead of Nash overall, but i'm not sure I thought that one through very thoroughly

Johnny Tomala · Post #15 » by **Johnny Tomala** » Sun May 28, 2023 12:28 am

I have Magic, Oscar, West, Stockton and Curry as my top 5 PG. Then Isiah, Paul, Kidd, Cousy, Frazier. No Nash for me in top 10 ever.

migya · Post #16 » by **migya** » Sun May 28, 2023 12:33 am

Kobeshow wrote:It's funny because when I do all-decade teams for 00s, I can't pick between Nash and Kidd and here I see people telling me that Nash is in a completely different tier compared to Kidd...

I strongly disagree. Defense and rebounding are important too...

Kidd seems underrated. He was a great defender, orchestrator and lifted talent. His job with the Nets is unmatched among PGs alltime as a ceiling and floor raiser. He scored well those years also. Nash couldn't come close to anything like that, he needs a ton of talent around him.

picko · Post #17 » by **picko** » Sun May 28, 2023 12:57 am

Curry's not a point guard. He does rank highly on any list of great SG's though.

SNPA · Post #18 » by **SNPA** » Sun May 28, 2023 4:04 am

picko wrote:Curry's not a point guard. He does rank highly on any list of great SG's though.

If Magic joined the league today would he be considered a PG or point forward?

The distinction for me is the size of the player and team construction on defense. If it’s a priority for a team to get a smaller starting caliber player mostly to defend PG’s -with offense fit considered too- in order to make up for the point player’s defensive deficiencies guarding smaller players, then you have a point forward and not a true PG.

I get this is a really blurry line.

ardee · Post #19 » by **ardee** » Sun May 28, 2023 6:01 am

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:Stockton is clearly over Nash & Paul

Curry/Magic/Stockton/Oscar are the top 4. The rest can fight over the 5th spot.

Nash and Paul were both legitimately MVP caliber players at their peak, Stockton was not. Longevity matters but does it outweigh that peak difference?

GSP · Post #20 » by **GSP** » Sun May 28, 2023 7:03 am

No way in hell does Cp3 have a solidified spot w/ all playoff injuries

its actually comedy and predictable how he gets hurt damn near every playoffs tanking his teams chances in process. We are not talking 1 or 2 even 3 playoff injuries this is over half his career..............

that is not something to ignore when its a career long trend. That SIGNIFICANTLY hurts his career value and one can easily argue Stockton and Kidd who are frankly better and maybe even Frazier over him

If Jerry counts as a Sg then only those 4 are solidified. Its just a matter of time until Luka becomes 5 and then later moves higher hes def better than Nash at least for peak (and Cp3 for that matter). Even Nash good as he was has his shortcomings that should be factored.

Magic, Oscar, Steph feels like a holy trinity thats far above the rest until Luka shows us more