Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[CelticsPride18]

Brown to Portland
Markkanen and KO to Boston
Simons and picks to Utah

[Hal14]

My concern with re-signing Jaylen is that he becomes untradeable once he gets the money. He has a bad knee that's not getting better. His bbiq hasn't improved in 7 years.

But if you're trying to compete right now you probably aren't getting anyone who can come in and replace what he does. Maybe if you think he's an A- and you could get two or three B to B+ guys for him then you could work something out. Like if Brooklyn wanted to consolidate and you could get Bridges and Claxton or something. Maybe a three way that ends up with Jaylen in Atlanta and the Celtics get Collins, Bogi, and a piece from another team.

Maybe you do Brown for Simons and #3 and then flip #3 to someone else for a win now piece.

Siakam seems like the most plausible replacement for Brown because he has one year left on his deal too. However, just can't see JB getting dealt with Tatum wanting JB back...

The bigger problem is Joe and the excessive reliance on 3's.

I posted this in a different thread, but apparently it needs to go here as well..

we shot 37.7% from 3 and 56.7% from 3.

Now, if we take those numbers and say that hypothetically we could either shoot all 2's or all 3's to see which one is best. 37.7 x 3 = 113.1 points. 56.7 x 2 = 113.4.

Ironically, they both come out to be basically the same amount of points!

We were 5th in the league in 2 pt %, 6th in the league in 3 pt %. So we were basically just as efficient (in terms of our ranking in the league) from 3 as we were from 2. And we actually shot MORE 2's than 3's (per 100 possessions, we took 46.2 shots from 2 and 42.6 shots from 3.)

The result of all of this, was finishing 2nd in the league in points per 100 possessions.

If we were like 1st in 2 pt %, 30th in 3 pt %, while taking WAY more 3's than 2's and had a bottom 10 ranked offense in the league, I could see an argument here. But that's NOT the case. In fact, the opposite is true. We were 5th in 2 pt %, 6th in 3 pt %, took slightly MORE 2's than we did 3's and had the #2 offense in the league.

When you look at the data objectively, taking too many 3's is not the issue here.

[djFan71]

I merged the JB trade thread into the tread thread that was all JB trades already.

[hugepatsfan]

Musical chairs. We need a big to replace Horford in the startling lineup. Horford needs to replace Grant on the bench. Grant should hopefully get S&T somewhere for an asset.

Which lineup do you want Horford replaced in?

Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams or Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford

Important question because you need a different type of replacement depending on which lineup.

The first. I think our best starting lineup is with Rob at 5 and Tatum at 3. However Jaylen Brown at 2 and Smart at 1 makes us bad on ball handling and shooting.

Agreed, I like Rob at 5 and Tatum at SF.

Siakam is that player. Like it's just so obvious to me. Move Brown for Siakam. It's just so clear to me it makes us better.

That gives you a lineup of:

Smart / Brogdon
White
Tatum / Hauser
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

My only caution is that I think it'd be a mistake to keep Smart here. Need to swap him out for a shooter. Huerter is my guy. Add what you need to, if anything.

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum / Hauser
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

I compare it to the rotation we had when were in the finals:

Smart / White
Brown / Pritchard
Tatum
Horford / GWilliams
RWilliams

Siakam as a second scorer brings more diversification in attack styles than Brown. He replaces Horford defensively. White replaces Smart on defense and adds on offense. Huerter is probably a worse defender than Brown, but better floor spacing and I don't think defensive drop off is crippling. On the bench Brogdon's handling/shot creation addresses what was a crippling weakness for that team. Horford even at his age is still better than Grant because of length. Hauser vs Pritchard is whatever.

[Larry_Russell]

Siakam seems like a lateral move for an older player

Players are not fungible assets. Even if you might "value" them at a similar price range, they do different things. Because of the things Jaylen Brown does well (B-list on-ball scoring) and does not do well (everything else), he is uniquely unsuited to a team with championship aspirations.

That is also ignoring Simons.

To Me, Simons and Siakam >>> Brown, Gallo and Muscala

[CelticFaninLBC]

My concern with re-signing Jaylen is that he becomes untradeable once he gets the money. He has a bad knee that's not getting better. His bbiq hasn't improved in 7 years.

But if you're trying to compete right now you probably aren't getting anyone who can come in and replace what he does. Maybe if you think he's an A- and you could get two or three B to B+ guys for him then you could work something out. Like if Brooklyn wanted to consolidate and you could get Bridges and Claxton or something. Maybe a three way that ends up with Jaylen in Atlanta and the Celtics get Collins, Bogi, and a piece from another team.

Maybe you do Brown for Simons and #3 and then flip #3 to someone else for a win now piece.

Siakam seems like the most plausible replacement for Brown because he has one year left on his deal too. However, just can't see JB getting dealt with Tatum wanting JB back...

The bigger problem is Joe and the excessive reliance on 3's.

I posted this in a different thread, but apparently it needs to go here as well..

we shot 37.7% from 3 and 56.7% from 3.

Now, if we take those numbers and say that hypothetically we could either shoot all 2's or all 3's to see which one is best. 37.7 x 3 = 113.1 points. 56.7 x 2 = 113.4.

Ironically, they both come out to be basically the same amount of points!

We were 5th in the league in 2 pt %, 6th in the league in 3 pt %. So we were basically just as efficient (in terms of our ranking in the league) from 3 as we were from 2. And we actually shot MORE 2's than 3's (per 100 possessions, we took 46.2 shots from 2 and 42.6 shots from 3.)

The result of all of this, was finishing 2nd in the league in points per 100 possessions.

If we were like 1st in 2 pt %, 30th in 3 pt %, while taking WAY more 3's than 2's and had a bottom 10 ranked offense in the league, I could see an argument here. But that's NOT the case. In fact, the opposite is true. We were 5th in 2 pt %, 6th in 3 pt %, took slightly MORE 2's than we did 3's and had the #2 offense in the league.

When you look at the data objectively, taking too many 3's is not the issue here.

Shouldn't apply regular season stats to the playoffs when you're up against elite defenses and coaches.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Siakam seems like the most plausible replacement for Brown because he has one year left on his deal too. However, just can't see JB getting dealt with Tatum wanting JB back...

The bigger problem is Joe and the excessive reliance on 3's.

I posted this in a different thread, but apparently it needs to go here as well..

we shot 37.7% from 3 and 56.7% from 3.

Now, if we take those numbers and say that hypothetically we could either shoot all 2's or all 3's to see which one is best. 37.7 x 3 = 113.1 points. 56.7 x 2 = 113.4.

Ironically, they both come out to be basically the same amount of points!

We were 5th in the league in 2 pt %, 6th in the league in 3 pt %. So we were basically just as efficient (in terms of our ranking in the league) from 3 as we were from 2. And we actually shot MORE 2's than 3's (per 100 possessions, we took 46.2 shots from 2 and 42.6 shots from 3.)

The result of all of this, was finishing 2nd in the league in points per 100 possessions.

If we were like 1st in 2 pt %, 30th in 3 pt %, while taking WAY more 3's than 2's and had a bottom 10 ranked offense in the league, I could see an argument here. But that's NOT the case. In fact, the opposite is true. We were 5th in 2 pt %, 6th in 3 pt %, took slightly MORE 2's than we did 3's and had the #2 offense in the league.

When you look at the data objectively, taking too many 3's is not the issue here.

Shouldn't apply regular season stats to the playoffs.

Yup completely different animals. In the playoffs everything is ramped up and playing the same team potentially 7 times in a row is far different than playing a new team (besides the occasional back to back games against the same team) every night.

In the playoffs teams get exposed by better players and coaches. That is why Spo said "You need to take away their 3 point shooting." which is exactly what he did in 4 of these losses.

I mean after we watched Miami get the the finals as an 8th seed and watched Boston finish below 500 at home it is more than safe to say the regular season doesn't mean a whole lot.

[Larry_Russell]

Want to have a no defense, 3 point happy team? Trade Smart.

Smart getting torched all playoffs on defense while jacking up 3's!

He didnt get torched.
He made 36% of the 3s he attempted. Superior to Tatum and Brown.

Defensive scheming was terrible and made everyone look worse. Drop coverage on 3pt shooters is dumb.

[Dave_R]

Very long time ('66) Knicks fan coming in peace. Celts took a bit of a step backwards this year because they need both a center and a PG (no -- neither Brodgon nor White are PGs). When the Heat pressed a little in game 7 (albeit the game was probably over by then), the Celts had no answer. Also, getting a PG MIGHT reduce Brown's turnovers. Brown and Tatum play the same position. If they were smart (no pun intended), In terms of centers, Celts should pursue Nurkic or the guy from Houston.

[Hal14]

Which lineup do you want Horford replaced in?

Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford/RWilliams or Smart/White/Brown/Tatum/Horford

Important question because you need a different type of replacement depending on which lineup.

The first. I think our best starting lineup is with Rob at 5 and Tatum at 3. However Jaylen Brown at 2 and Smart at 1 makes us bad on ball handling and shooting.

Agreed, I like Rob at 5 and Tatum at SF.

Siakam is that player. Like it's just so obvious to me. Move Brown for Siakam. It's just so clear to me it makes us better.

That gives you a lineup of:

Smart / Brogdon
White
Tatum / Hauser
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

My only caution is that I think it'd be a mistake to keep Smart here. Need to swap him out for a shooter. Huerter is my guy. Add what you need to, if anything.

White / Brogdon
Huerter
Tatum / Hauser
Siakam
RWilliams / Horford

I compare it to the rotation we had when were in the finals:

Smart / White
Brown / Pritchard
Tatum
Horford / GWilliams
RWilliams

Siakam as a second scorer brings more diversification in attack styles than Brown. He replaces Horford defensively. White replaces Smart on defense and adds on offense. Huerter is probably a worse defender than Brown, but better floor spacing and I don't think defensive drop off is crippling. On the bench Brogdon's handling/shot creation addresses what was a crippling weakness for that team. Horford even at his age is still better than Grant because of length. Hauser vs Pritchard is whatever.

I agree with most of this, but think it would cause an outrage among many C's fans if we traded Smart and all we got in return was Kevin Huerter. Not to mention Brad has always LOVED Smart, so highly doubt he does this.

[bucknersrevenge]

Read on Twitter

I'm ok with that, FIRE JOE though..... Or simply drop him down to assistant and let a vet take charge

The premise of that argument is full of mularkey. We lost last year. Did we tear it down then? We lost the year before. Did we tear it down 2 years ago? What about the year before that? And before that?? In what year have we made major changes to the core on purpose, I forget...

[lon3lytoaster]

How desperate is Portland? How eager is Houston? Ideally you want an Ainge caliber trade - the BKN, Gobert or Donovan Mitchell deals..

Pretty desperate. Not, we're gonna throw in Shaedon Sharpe desperate, but pretty desperate for a second star to pair with Dame. I think if there's a "wink wink" deal that Brown signs an extension with Portland after the deal, then I think something around Simons and #3, plus maybe another FRP can get done.

For the Celtics, that's a pretty solid deal to turn Brown's contract into two guys on really team friendly deals. Simons is a steal for his talent to contract and is only 23/24yo. He'd immediately be their best guard and would be a great starting PG next to Smart at SG. Even of Scoot is gone, Miller is a guy who can start Day 1 and would look good at SF in Boston.

Simons
Smart
Miller
Tatum
Williams

On paper, I like the deal. I think the only question mark I’d have is the value of #3. In a perfect world, I’d flip that for Siakam. Outside of that, I’d take Scoot. If he’s off the board I’m probably not interested.

I think Portland would probably rather just deal for Siakam directly but I can’t say I keep up with you guys a ton to know if that’s a good fit.

[The Corey's]

The Blazers trade for the third pick is the only realistic trade I’ve seen pitched.

However, I wonder if there’s any shot at Kawhi or George being moved.

You're trolling. Obviously. C'mon now.

[Froob]

The Blazers trade for the third pick is the only realistic trade I’ve seen pitched.

However, I wonder if there’s any shot at Kawhi or George being moved.

You're trolling. Obviously. C'mon now.

I mean it’s super risky, I’m just spit balling ways we get an upgrade to Jaylen that’s actually realistic.

[The Corey's]

The Blazers trade for the third pick is the only realistic trade I’ve seen pitched.

However, I wonder if there’s any shot at Kawhi or George being moved.

You're trolling. Obviously. C'mon now.

I mean it’s super risky, I’m just spit balling ways we get an upgrade to Jaylen that’s actually realistic.

Leonard almost is never healthy. It's uncanny. Not worth it.

[Froob]

Read on Twitter

[fallguy]

How desperate is Portland? How eager is Houston? Ideally you want an Ainge caliber trade - the BKN, Gobert or Donovan Mitchell deals..

Pretty desperate. Not, we're gonna throw in Shaedon Sharpe desperate, but pretty desperate for a second star to pair with Dame. I think if there's a "wink wink" deal that Brown signs an extension with Portland after the deal, then I think something around Simons and #3, plus maybe another FRP can get done.

For the Celtics, that's a pretty solid deal to turn Brown's contract into two guys on really team friendly deals. Simons is a steal for his talent to contract and is only 23/24yo. He'd immediately be their best guard and would be a great starting PG next to Smart at SG. Even of Scoot is gone, Miller is a guy who can start Day 1 and would look good at SF in Boston.

Simons
Smart
Miller
Tatum
Williams

On paper, I like the deal. I think the only question mark I’d have is the value of #3. In a perfect world, I’d flip that for Siakam. Outside of that, I’d take Scoot. If he’s off the board I’m probably not interested.

I think Portland would probably rather just deal for Siakam directly but I can’t say I keep up with you guys a ton to know if that’s a good fit.

If Scoot is off the board that means Charlotte took him so maybe they'd be open to flipping Lamelo for #3.

[lon3lytoaster]

Pretty desperate. Not, we're gonna throw in Shaedon Sharpe desperate, but pretty desperate for a second star to pair with Dame. I think if there's a "wink wink" deal that Brown signs an extension with Portland after the deal, then I think something around Simons and #3, plus maybe another FRP can get done.

For the Celtics, that's a pretty solid deal to turn Brown's contract into two guys on really team friendly deals. Simons is a steal for his talent to contract and is only 23/24yo. He'd immediately be their best guard and would be a great starting PG next to Smart at SG. Even of Scoot is gone, Miller is a guy who can start Day 1 and would look good at SF in Boston.

Simons
Smart
Miller
Tatum
Williams

On paper, I like the deal. I think the only question mark I’d have is the value of #3. In a perfect world, I’d flip that for Siakam. Outside of that, I’d take Scoot. If he’s off the board I’m probably not interested.

I think Portland would probably rather just deal for Siakam directly but I can’t say I keep up with you guys a ton to know if that’s a good fit.

If Scoot is off the board that means Charlotte took him so maybe they'd be open to flipping Lamelo for #3.

That’s a fair point. Didn’t think about Charlotte’s situation. I just don’t know how teams feel about Brandon Miller, nor do I think they do.

I don’t know. I don’t want to flip Brown for a rookie but Scoot is the only [realistic] one I would.

[BK_2020]

The last thing Charlotte needs now is a guy who's connected to a murder.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Jimmy Stewart Celtics Trade Of The Day

He mentioned this on the SportsHub today: Keep your eye on a guy like Zach Lavine for Brown. It might be a step down in talent and he's been injured, but he's only 28 and has played with Tatum in the Olympics.