Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Scottie is back in the gym working in Toronto

It's true. I was with him shooting in the gym.

no wonder! I saw so many condos going up so fast.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

https://theathletic.com/4552686/2023/05/26/raptors-scottie-barnes-slump/

Partnow: His first two seasons appear pretty similar except for sizable declines in his efficiency in midrange areas. According to Basketball Reference, his accuracy on “floater range” shots dropped from 50.2 percent to 44.8 percent, while on jumpers from 10 to 16 feet, the decline was even more precipitous, going from 39.8 percent to 29.7 percent. He also saw decreases on longer jumpers, but he didn’t exactly light it up from 3 as a rookie.

Partnow: I’d take a little bit of a wait-and-see approach, with the one caveat being that the likelihood of him becoming a primary offensive engine has to be considered lower due to the regression, as the shots on which he saw not just a lack of progress, but a real diminution of effectiveness, are the sorts of “star shots” that allow a player to have the ball in his hands enough to be that kind of driving force for a team.

Partnow: At this point I would describe myself as concerned but not worried quite yet. You certainly would have liked to have seen more development by him as a playmaker, shooter and defender. I know we haven’t mentioned that end of the floor much, in part because this is an analytics-focused conversation and defensive metrics for non-centres can be difficult to find and/or interpret. But if the path for Barnes is as more of a versatile jack-of-all-trades type rather than as a primary scorer or main ballhandler, high-level defence has to be a major component of that package.

Only two years in, you don’t want to say that any particular doors have been closed to him, but the lack of progress toward a more starring role does make some of the very peak, All-NBA-level player-type outcomes for Barnes much less likely. Certainly, some of the hyperbole that had him off the table in a rumoured Kevin Durant swap last offseason looks a little silly.

[HumbleRen]

https://theathletic.com/4552686/2023/05/26/raptors-scottie-barnes-slump/

Partnow: His first two seasons appear pretty similar except for sizable declines in his efficiency in midrange areas. According to Basketball Reference, his accuracy on “floater range” shots dropped from 50.2 percent to 44.8 percent, while on jumpers from 10 to 16 feet, the decline was even more precipitous, going from 39.8 percent to 29.7 percent. He also saw decreases on longer jumpers, but he didn’t exactly light it up from 3 as a rookie.

Partnow: I’d take a little bit of a wait-and-see approach, with the one caveat being that the likelihood of him becoming a primary offensive engine has to be considered lower due to the regression, as the shots on which he saw not just a lack of progress, but a real diminution of effectiveness, are the sorts of “star shots” that allow a player to have the ball in his hands enough to be that kind of driving force for a team.

Partnow: At this point I would describe myself as concerned but not worried quite yet. You certainly would have liked to have seen more development by him as a playmaker, shooter and defender. I know we haven’t mentioned that end of the floor much, in part because this is an analytics-focused conversation and defensive metrics for non-centres can be difficult to find and/or interpret. But if the path for Barnes is as more of a versatile jack-of-all-trades type rather than as a primary scorer or main ballhandler, high-level defence has to be a major component of that package.

Only two years in, you don’t want to say that any particular doors have been closed to him, but the lack of progress toward a more starring role does make some of the very peak, All-NBA-level player-type outcomes for Barnes much less likely. Certainly, some of the hyperbole that had him off the table in a rumoured Kevin Durant swap last offseason looks a little silly.

I agree with most of this except for the KD part.

It was never about Scottie being so good of a prospect that we shouldn't trade him for KD. It was more so about trading Scottie/OG another piece and a bunch of picks for a dude who plays 30 games a season and also doesn't even make us a contender.

[Vampirate]

Depleting the farm + giving up Barnes, our only player that's close to a blue chip prospect for a 30 year old player who has had the tendency of asking for a trade when things get rough pretty much means:

As soon as KD (a declining asset) wants out of Toronto, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now as Brooklyn would basically own our future and KD is still probably in Phoenix.

[will]

Scottie is back in the gym working in Toronto

It's true. I was with him shooting in the gym.

no wonder! I saw so many condos going up so fast.

I like the banter. Even if it's at the expense of my beloved Scottish.

[BetterCallSaul]

Depleting the farm + giving up Barnes, our only player that's close to a blue chip prospect for a 30 year old player who has had the tendency of asking for a trade when things get rough pretty much means:

As soon as KD (a declining asset) wants out of Toronto, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now as Brooklyn would basically own our future and KD is still probably in Phoenix.

Eh, while I agree with you. KD still fetched Mikal Bridges and 4 first rounders, a pick swap and Cam Johnson halfway through the season. In terms of asset management alone, we could have traded Scottie for KD and then gotten back a huge haul by flipping KD. Obviously that's not what would happen, but KD's value is still much much higher than Scottie's today and that is largely because Scottie didn't have the type of breakout season people anticipated.

[Jcity08]

Apparently, Scotties midrange % was trending up in the last 17 games of the Season. Could be a good sign for the future.

Watch on YouTube

[Tofubeque]

Apparently, Scotties midrange % was trending up in the last 17 games of the Season. Could be a good sign for the future.

Watch on YouTube

His talent and size are so obvious, even his misses look like good looks. We can't make him the 1st option fast enough. Now's the perfect time, several years of rookie deal left and team expectations lowered after missing the playoffs, he can go through all the growing pains

[will]

Scottish, baybeeeeee!

[will]

Scottish free of Nicky.

Now be free of upside down M.

[Raptors Realtor]

Depleting the farm + giving up Barnes, our only player that's close to a blue chip prospect for a 30 year old player who has had the tendency of asking for a trade when things get rough pretty much means:

As soon as KD (a declining asset) wants out of Toronto, we'd be in a much worse situation than we are now as Brooklyn would basically own our future and KD is still probably in Phoenix.

Eh, while I agree with you. KD still fetched Mikal Bridges and 4 first rounders, a pick swap and Cam Johnson halfway through the season. In terms of asset management alone, we could have traded Scottie for KD and then gotten back a huge haul by flipping KD. Obviously that's not what would happen, but KD's value is still much much higher than Scottie's today and that is largely because Scottie didn't have the type of breakout season people anticipated.

Durant will be 35 before the season starts, and quite injury prone at this stage in his career. Brooklyn got lucky with that package because the Suns had a brand new owner looking to make a splash, understanding that the 38 year old CP3 is on the decline, and that this past playoffs might have been they're best opportunity to win a chip... My guess is Mat Ishbia's mantra is "no guts, no glory"

[junot111]

https://theathletic.com/4552686/2023/05/26/raptors-scottie-barnes-slump/

Partnow: His first two seasons appear pretty similar except for sizable declines in his efficiency in midrange areas. According to Basketball Reference, his accuracy on “floater range” shots dropped from 50.2 percent to 44.8 percent, while on jumpers from 10 to 16 feet, the decline was even more precipitous, going from 39.8 percent to 29.7 percent. He also saw decreases on longer jumpers, but he didn’t exactly light it up from 3 as a rookie.

Partnow: I’d take a little bit of a wait-and-see approach, with the one caveat being that the likelihood of him becoming a primary offensive engine has to be considered lower due to the regression, as the shots on which he saw not just a lack of progress, but a real diminution of effectiveness, are the sorts of “star shots” that allow a player to have the ball in his hands enough to be that kind of driving force for a team.

Partnow: At this point I would describe myself as concerned but not worried quite yet. You certainly would have liked to have seen more development by him as a playmaker, shooter and defender. I know we haven’t mentioned that end of the floor much, in part because this is an analytics-focused conversation and defensive metrics for non-centres can be difficult to find and/or interpret. But if the path for Barnes is as more of a versatile jack-of-all-trades type rather than as a primary scorer or main ballhandler, high-level defence has to be a major component of that package.

Only two years in, you don’t want to say that any particular doors have been closed to him, but the lack of progress toward a more starring role does make some of the very peak, All-NBA-level player-type outcomes for Barnes much less likely. Certainly, some of the hyperbole that had him off the table in a rumoured Kevin Durant swap last offseason looks a little silly.

These are good points, his defense does not get talked about enough. His perimeter defense is really bad. I haven't seen a player get blown by this much since the days of Jose Calderon

[TorontoBarneys]

Surround Scottie with elite young talent. Let the man flourish in a system that's built to be friendly to him.

[HumbleRen]

https://theathletic.com/4552686/2023/05/26/raptors-scottie-barnes-slump/

Partnow: His first two seasons appear pretty similar except for sizable declines in his efficiency in midrange areas. According to Basketball Reference, his accuracy on “floater range” shots dropped from 50.2 percent to 44.8 percent, while on jumpers from 10 to 16 feet, the decline was even more precipitous, going from 39.8 percent to 29.7 percent. He also saw decreases on longer jumpers, but he didn’t exactly light it up from 3 as a rookie.

Partnow: I’d take a little bit of a wait-and-see approach, with the one caveat being that the likelihood of him becoming a primary offensive engine has to be considered lower due to the regression, as the shots on which he saw not just a lack of progress, but a real diminution of effectiveness, are the sorts of “star shots” that allow a player to have the ball in his hands enough to be that kind of driving force for a team.

Partnow: At this point I would describe myself as concerned but not worried quite yet. You certainly would have liked to have seen more development by him as a playmaker, shooter and defender. I know we haven’t mentioned that end of the floor much, in part because this is an analytics-focused conversation and defensive metrics for non-centres can be difficult to find and/or interpret. But if the path for Barnes is as more of a versatile jack-of-all-trades type rather than as a primary scorer or main ballhandler, high-level defence has to be a major component of that package.

Only two years in, you don’t want to say that any particular doors have been closed to him, but the lack of progress toward a more starring role does make some of the very peak, All-NBA-level player-type outcomes for Barnes much less likely. Certainly, some of the hyperbole that had him off the table in a rumoured Kevin Durant swap last offseason looks a little silly.

These are good points, his defense does not get talked about enough. His perimeter defense is really bad. I haven't seen a player get blown by this much since the days of Jose Calderon

Making a 4 guard the perimeter like that is pretty crazy to me. Hopefully our next coach isn't that stupid.

[PoundTown]

https://theathletic.com/4552686/2023/05/26/raptors-scottie-barnes-slump/

These are good points, his defense does not get talked about enough. His perimeter defense is really bad. I haven't seen a player get blown by this much since the days of Jose Calderon

Making a 4 guard the perimeter like that is pretty crazy to me. Hopefully our next coach isn't that stupid.

There’s good and bad there. It’s very inconsistent but I definitely see someone who once they play a bit smarter and a little less aggressive on that end, which hopefully the new coach will, will be a pretty good defender.

[will]

Scottish, baybeeee!

Getting closer to the start of the season.

[DemHeavyHands]

Can you sign it bitbuy guy?!?!?

[Airball Salmons]

Scottie’s trending towards Andre Iguodala type player

[HumbleRen]

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Scottie’s trending towards Andre Iguodala type player

Iguodala didn't have the post up or bully ball game that Scottie does.