2023 Off-season Thread

[FarBeyondDriven]

I know Tatum and Brown will get most of the attention if Boston blows it up but I'm wondering what Smart's value would be and can the Kings put together a package to get him?

I know he won DPOY year but he hasn't seemed like a difference making defender for a few seasons and we already get that type of production and role out from "off-day" I just want us to concentrate on replacing Barnes and finding a 4/5 who can defend the basket. If he can also spread the floor then great! We seem pretty set at the guard position.

[hugepatsfan]

Always wanted him.

I noticed last year watching them, none of their guys were really fast enough or good enough handling to beat teams off the dribble. They added Brogdon as the big piece, but he likes the score the same way.

Boston would never go for it but I think trading Davion/Holmes (optional)/37 for Smart makes a ton of sense for both teams. Davion is quick, and when given the opportunity he was able to be a solid playmaker. He bring a whole new skill set to that team. They also struggle with Williams often being injured, so Holmes while expensive could work for them.

We get a guy who can share the court with Fox and play up a few positions defensively. The one challenge I see is that if we started Fox-Smart-Huerter-Murray-Sabonis we would be even more undersized. And I don't see Smart being thrilled taking a bench role in Sac. Ideally we would have to add a big in free agency and move Huerter to the bench.

Fox - Smart - Murray - FA - Sabonis
Monk - Huerter - Sasha - Lyles

One of Fox/Smart are always in the game to run the point.

I'd do that in a heart beat but I feel like the offer for Smart would have to start around Davion/24. I feel like Smart would have some pretty good trade value around the league.

More than likely from a value standpoint that is true, and I'd still probably do it with 24 instead of 37. I think Boston won't move Smart but just trading him for Davion opens up so much more for that team. And they seem to always prioritize defense, so it's going to be hard to find a cheap defensive pg if they were to move him.

Logistics make it kinda hard involving double sign and trade, but both teams could benefit from

Holmes/Mitchell/Barnes for White/Grant Williams

Chiming in as a BOS fan... I'm very willing to move Smart. But I don't view Mitchell as the right piece. He recreates a lot of the same issues we have. I think BOS needs to commit to Derrick White as the starting PG, Brogdon as the backup and potentially closer if he's healthy. I'd be looking to move Smart for a starting SG or forward that brings more spacing. Huerter would be a nice swap IMO, but not sure that lines up with what your team is looking to do.

[LightTheBeam]

I'd do that in a heart beat but I feel like the offer for Smart would have to start around Davion/24. I feel like Smart would have some pretty good trade value around the league.

More than likely from a value standpoint that is true, and I'd still probably do it with 24 instead of 37. I think Boston won't move Smart but just trading him for Davion opens up so much more for that team. And they seem to always prioritize defense, so it's going to be hard to find a cheap defensive pg if they were to move him.

Logistics make it kinda hard involving double sign and trade, but both teams could benefit from

Holmes/Mitchell/Barnes for White/Grant Williams

Chiming in as a BOS fan... I'm very willing to move Smart. But I don't view Mitchell as the right piece. He recreates a lot of the same issues we have. I think BOS needs to commit to Derrick White as the starting PG, Brogdon as the backup and potentially closer if he's healthy. I'd be looking to move Smart for a starting SG or forward that brings more spacing. Huerter would be a nice swap IMO, but not sure that lines up with what your team is looking to do.

I'd actually prefer to move Huerter over Mitchell, as I think defense is by far and away our biggest struggle.

My goal for Boston was to bring a player who could break down the defense on drive & kicks. But Huerter for Smart works just fine for me.

[hugepatsfan]

More than likely from a value standpoint that is true, and I'd still probably do it with 24 instead of 37. I think Boston won't move Smart but just trading him for Davion opens up so much more for that team. And they seem to always prioritize defense, so it's going to be hard to find a cheap defensive pg if they were to move him.

Logistics make it kinda hard involving double sign and trade, but both teams could benefit from

Holmes/Mitchell/Barnes for White/Grant Williams

Chiming in as a BOS fan... I'm very willing to move Smart. But I don't view Mitchell as the right piece. He recreates a lot of the same issues we have. I think BOS needs to commit to Derrick White as the starting PG, Brogdon as the backup and potentially closer if he's healthy. I'd be looking to move Smart for a starting SG or forward that brings more spacing. Huerter would be a nice swap IMO, but not sure that lines up with what your team is looking to do.

I'd actually prefer to move Huerter over Mitchell, as I think defense is by far and away our biggest struggle.

My goal for Boston was to bring a player who could break down the defense on drive & kicks. But Huerter for Smart works just fine for me.

I think BOS gets hurt when they play White/Smart together. I like White's offensive game more, so Smart is who I want to move. I think we need another floor spacer in place of one of them.

A lot of focus on BOS is on Tatum/Brown ball handling/playmaking, but I think BOS makes it harder for them with poor spacing in the backcourt when they play White/Smart together. That's what I want to alleviate. I think you see that even if Smart/White will hit 3s in the regular season, they're not guys teams respect enough in a playoff series not to help off of and it makes more traffic for Tatum/Brown inside.

[LightTheBeam]

Chiming in as a BOS fan... I'm very willing to move Smart. But I don't view Mitchell as the right piece. He recreates a lot of the same issues we have. I think BOS needs to commit to Derrick White as the starting PG, Brogdon as the backup and potentially closer if he's healthy. I'd be looking to move Smart for a starting SG or forward that brings more spacing. Huerter would be a nice swap IMO, but not sure that lines up with what your team is looking to do.

I'd actually prefer to move Huerter over Mitchell, as I think defense is by far and away our biggest struggle.

My goal for Boston was to bring a player who could break down the defense on drive & kicks. But Huerter for Smart works just fine for me.

I think BOS gets hurt when they play White/Smart together. I like White's offensive game more, so Smart is who I want to move. I think we need another floor spacer in place of one of them.

A lot of focus on BOS is on Tatum/Brown ball handling/playmaking, but I think BOS makes it harder for them with poor spacing in the backcourt when they play White/Smart together. That's what I want to alleviate. I think you see that even if Smart/White will hit 3s in the regular season, they're not guys teams respect enough in a playoff series not to help off of and it makes more traffic for Tatum/Brown inside.

I understand the thinking. Always thought those 2 had a ton of overlap and Boston would eventually move one. Huerter would feast on open 3s, and he can do more when needed.

Of course this would depend who sac targets to fill the 4 spot. Sac depends on the spacing around Fox/Sabonis. If we grab someone who can shoot in free agency like Grant Willams or Cameron Johnson then smart makes a lot of sense. But if it's a Kyle Kuzma type, not sure you can replicate the offense we had this past year with 3 low 30s 3pt shooters around Sabonis.

[hugepatsfan]

I'd actually prefer to move Huerter over Mitchell, as I think defense is by far and away our biggest struggle.

My goal for Boston was to bring a player who could break down the defense on drive & kicks. But Huerter for Smart works just fine for me.

I think BOS gets hurt when they play White/Smart together. I like White's offensive game more, so Smart is who I want to move. I think we need another floor spacer in place of one of them.

A lot of focus on BOS is on Tatum/Brown ball handling/playmaking, but I think BOS makes it harder for them with poor spacing in the backcourt when they play White/Smart together. That's what I want to alleviate. I think you see that even if Smart/White will hit 3s in the regular season, they're not guys teams respect enough in a playoff series not to help off of and it makes more traffic for Tatum/Brown inside.

I understand the thinking. Always thought those 2 had a ton of overlap and Boston would eventually move one. Huerter would feast on open 3s, and he can do more when needed.

Of course this would depend who sac targets to fill the 4 spot. Sac depends on the spacing around Fox/Sabonis. If we grab someone who can shoot in free agency like Grant Willams or Cameron Johnson then smart makes a lot of sense. But if it's a Kyle Kuzma type, not sure you can replicate the offense we had this past year with 3 low 30s 3pt shooters around Sabonis.

BOS gets: Huerter, Holmes

SAC gets: Smart, Grant Williams (S&T)

Deal works for you guys through salary matching rules and for us working through base year compensation rules so long as Grant's year 1 salary is under $16,160,866. That translates to $69.5M over 4 years.

By you guys doing this deal through salary matching, you can use your cap space first. Or just not renounce the rights to Barnes. Also get to preserve the full MLE. So you guys could re-sign Barnes, use the full MLE and execute this deal all in the same offseason.

[LightTheBeam]

I think BOS gets hurt when they play White/Smart together. I like White's offensive game more, so Smart is who I want to move. I think we need another floor spacer in place of one of them.

A lot of focus on BOS is on Tatum/Brown ball handling/playmaking, but I think BOS makes it harder for them with poor spacing in the backcourt when they play White/Smart together. That's what I want to alleviate. I think you see that even if Smart/White will hit 3s in the regular season, they're not guys teams respect enough in a playoff series not to help off of and it makes more traffic for Tatum/Brown inside.

I understand the thinking. Always thought those 2 had a ton of overlap and Boston would eventually move one. Huerter would feast on open 3s, and he can do more when needed.

Of course this would depend who sac targets to fill the 4 spot. Sac depends on the spacing around Fox/Sabonis. If we grab someone who can shoot in free agency like Grant Willams or Cameron Johnson then smart makes a lot of sense. But if it's a Kyle Kuzma type, not sure you can replicate the offense we had this past year with 3 low 30s 3pt shooters around Sabonis.

BOS gets: Huerter, Holmes

SAC gets: Smart, Grant Williams (S&T)

Deal works for you guys through salary matching rules and for us working through base year compensation rules so long as Grant's year 1 salary is under $16,160,866. That translates to $69.5M over 4 years.

By you guys doing this deal through salary matching, you can use your cap space first. Or just not renounce the rights to Barnes. Also get to preserve the full MLE. So you guys could re-sign Barnes, use the full MLE and execute this deal all in the same offseason.

I would 100% do this version. If we could chase Naz Reid, bring back Lyles, and then bring over Sasha. That would be an ideal offseason.

Fox - Smart - Murray - Williams - Sabonis
Mitchell - Monk - Sasha - Lyles - Reid

That's a huge improvement to our defense. Still have 6 very capable 3pt shooters in the rotation. And fox, smart, mitchell can't be completely left open either.

For the record I do like Holmes in Boston. I've suggested it a few times. He needs a change, but he never complains about his role, has a beautiful floater, and will always bring the hustle. Think he's a fine backup to Rob and would do great in Celtics green.

[BoogieTime]

Wow really, wiretap reporting Beal

Doesn’t make any sense. We have the number 1 offense now without that cumbersome salary

[codydaze]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

[BoogieTime]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

The aggressiveness speaks of Vivek involvement to me, but yes OG over Beal certainly.

OG is expiring so you’d need him intimating he’d remain. He’s also complained about offensive involvement and I’m not sure how that is satiated here. He’s also about to get overpaid, those high end role players making 25+ have diminishing returns IMO for payroll allotment. But he’s still young and possibly protectable to even more improvement

If OG would re-sign and it’s all but in stone, it would be hometown thinking to think the Raptors would take our role players (Huerter/Davion) and weak picks. There will be competition for his services and the raptors would be rebuilding most likely. It’s Keegan, and I’m not Murray’s biggest fan so I would give serious thought

[codydaze]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

The aggressiveness speaks of Vivek involvement to me, but yes OG over Beal certainly.

OG is expiring so you’d need him intimating he’d remain. He’s also complained about offensive involvement and I’m not sure how that is satiated here. He’s also about to get overpaid, those high end role players making 25+ have diminishing returns IMO for payroll allotment. But he’s still young and possibly protectable to even more improvement

If OG would re-sign and it’s all but in stone, it would be hometown thinking to think the Raptors would take our role players (Huerter/Davion) and weak picks. There will be competition for his services and the raptors would be rebuilding most likely. It’s Keegan, and I’m not Murray’s biggest fan so I would give serious thought

When is the last time we've seen anything that points towards the involvement of Vivek? I mean, he even hired a consulting firm to help with hiring McNair. It's time to, collectively, stop speculating Vivek is involved in anything roster related. In my opinion that ship has sailed and it's lazy.

I would prefer keeping Keegan off the table for OG, but I am all in for Huerter/Davion and picks to get it done. If you renounce Barnes and find a way to dump Holmes you have some sizable cap left to go get a guy like Bruce Brown to fill in the starting 2 role and grab a couple more role guys for the bench.

[BoogieTime]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

The aggressiveness speaks of Vivek involvement to me, but yes OG over Beal certainly.

OG is expiring so you’d need him intimating he’d remain. He’s also complained about offensive involvement and I’m not sure how that is satiated here. He’s also about to get overpaid, those high end role players making 25+ have diminishing returns IMO for payroll allotment. But he’s still young and possibly protectable to even more improvement

If OG would re-sign and it’s all but in stone, it would be hometown thinking to think the Raptors would take our role players (Huerter/Davion) and weak picks. There will be competition for his services and the raptors would be rebuilding most likely. It’s Keegan, and I’m not Murray’s biggest fan so I would give serious thought

When is the last time we've seen anything that points towards the involvement of Vivek? I mean, he even hired a consulting firm to help with hiring McNair. It's time to, collectively, stop speculating Vivek is involved in anything roster related. In my opinion that ship has sailed and it's lazy.

I would prefer keeping Keegan off the table for OG, but I am all in for Huerter/Davion and picks to get it done. If you renounce Barnes and find a way to dump Holmes you have some sizable cap left to go get a guy like Bruce Brown to fill in the starting 2 role and grab a couple more role guys for the bench.

Your defense of him is lazy. He was just trying to take credit for the hiring of Mike Brown a couple months ago. Giving interviews of his detailed involvement in how he vetted him. His win now mandates were a little over a year back

I know you would prefer that, Toronto wouldn’t. They need to be compensated equitably to not deal him somewhere else. Weak picks and our worse role players won’t get it done IMO, we will see. Picks in the future and from possibly a contender aren’t enticing

[codydaze]

The aggressiveness speaks of Vivek involvement to me, but yes OG over Beal certainly.

OG is expiring so you’d need him intimating he’d remain. He’s also complained about offensive involvement and I’m not sure how that is satiated here. He’s also about to get overpaid, those high end role players making 25+ have diminishing returns IMO for payroll allotment. But he’s still young and possibly protectable to even more improvement

If OG would re-sign and it’s all but in stone, it would be hometown thinking to think the Raptors would take our role players (Huerter/Davion) and weak picks. There will be competition for his services and the raptors would be rebuilding most likely. It’s Keegan, and I’m not Murray’s biggest fan so I would give serious thought

When is the last time we've seen anything that points towards the involvement of Vivek? I mean, he even hired a consulting firm to help with hiring McNair. It's time to, collectively, stop speculating Vivek is involved in anything roster related. In my opinion that ship has sailed and it's lazy.

I would prefer keeping Keegan off the table for OG, but I am all in for Huerter/Davion and picks to get it done. If you renounce Barnes and find a way to dump Holmes you have some sizable cap left to go get a guy like Bruce Brown to fill in the starting 2 role and grab a couple more role guys for the bench.

Your defense of him is lazy. He was just trying to take credit for the hiring of Mike Brown a couple months ago. Giving interviews of his detailed involvement in how he vetted him. His win now mandates were a little over a year back

I know you would prefer that, Toronto wouldn’t. They need to be compensated equitably to not deal him somewhere else. Weak picks and our worse role players won’t get it done IMO, we will see. Picks in the future and from possibly a contender aren’t enticing

Given his ego, it is not surprising he would try to take credit for hiring Mike Brown. He also tried taking credit for the idea of the beam. Do I believe either of those things? No.

[BoogieTime]

When is the last time we've seen anything that points towards the involvement of Vivek? I mean, he even hired a consulting firm to help with hiring McNair. It's time to, collectively, stop speculating Vivek is involved in anything roster related. In my opinion that ship has sailed and it's lazy.

I would prefer keeping Keegan off the table for OG, but I am all in for Huerter/Davion and picks to get it done. If you renounce Barnes and find a way to dump Holmes you have some sizable cap left to go get a guy like Bruce Brown to fill in the starting 2 role and grab a couple more role guys for the bench.

Your defense of him is lazy. He was just trying to take credit for the hiring of Mike Brown a couple months ago. Giving interviews of his detailed involvement in how he vetted him. His win now mandates were a little over a year back

I know you would prefer that, Toronto wouldn’t. They need to be compensated equitably to not deal him somewhere else. Weak picks and our worse role players won’t get it done IMO, we will see. Picks in the future and from possibly a contender aren’t enticing

Given his ego, it is not surprising he would try to take credit for hiring Mike Brown. He also tried taking credit for the idea of the beam. Do I believe either of those things? No.

Whether he did or didn’t, his personality is that of an involved owner. Can I see him over enthused about our run, and with both fists clenched urging management to try to take the next step and do what they can just as he was urging them to make win now moves last February? I could. I don’t know how much that will affect the process though but it could lend us to at least being one of the teams “interested”

[BoogieTime]

With more thought, maybe OG could get done with picks and no Murray, but it would be ugly.

If they are projecting us to be a nice team, maybe three years worth of control (besides our weak 24 this year) in the future? It could start to get ugly. There will, in OGs case, be league wide interest.

You of course need him to say he will re sign before pontificating

[LightTheBeam]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

I don't buy OG being worth the world like they tried to sell last deadline. If he was they would have dealt him without thinking twice.

Imo swapping Huerter for OG straight makes both teams better. They will resign Siakam, and the lineup starts to actually make sense. But of course OG is worth more, just don't think it's that much more.

I'd offer up

Holmes + Huerter + 24 + protected 26 1st for OG + OPJ.

OG has the skills to make a great impact on our defense, but he fits in weird positionally. Guess in one sense it makes us versatile, but I'm not sure if the next step is to add a starting shooting or starting PF. Getting OG/Naz would be an excellent summer.

[mademan]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

I don't buy OG being worth the world like they tried to sell last deadline. If he was they would have dealt him without thinking twice.

Imo swapping Huerter for OG straight makes both teams better. They will resign Siakam, and the lineup starts to actually make sense. But of course OG is worth more, just don't think it's that much more.

I'd offer up

Holmes + Huerter + 24 + protected 26 1st for OG + OPJ.

OG has the skills to make a great impact on our defense, but he fits in weird positionally. Guess in one sense it makes us versatile, but I'm not sure if the next step is to add a starting shooting or starting PF. Getting OG/Naz would be an excellent summer.

OG may not net back a star level package, but a decent role player and 2 late picks will 100% be beat on the open market. Raps are gonna need at least 1 strong piece coming back or volume to offset that, and this gives them neither.

[LightTheBeam]

Read on Twitter

Sign me up for OG over Beal all day.

I don't buy OG being worth the world like they tried to sell last deadline. If he was they would have dealt him without thinking twice.

Imo swapping Huerter for OG straight makes both teams better. They will resign Siakam, and the lineup starts to actually make sense. But of course OG is worth more, just don't think it's that much more.

I'd offer up

Holmes + Huerter + 24 + protected 26 1st for OG + OPJ.

OG has the skills to make a great impact on our defense, but he fits in weird positionally. Guess in one sense it makes us versatile, but I'm not sure if the next step is to add a starting shooting or starting PF. Getting OG/Naz would be an excellent summer.

OG may not net back a star level package, but a decent role player and 2 late picks will 100% be beat on the open market. Raps are gonna need at least 1 strong piece coming back or volume to offset that, and this gives them neither.

"A decent role player".. what do you think OG is? This is a decent role player for a slightly better decent role player?

And its not "2 late picks". You are getting a future 1st from a historically bad franchise, who after this trade would have 3/5th of our best players as impending free agents.

Maybe Toronto can get a better offer on the open market, I doubt it and think if those offers were true he woulda been traded last deadline when raptors were dead in the water. But either way this would be the max I'd be comfortable paying, maybe Monte values him more? I'd certainly hope not. Rather explore other options at that point.

[LightTheBeam]

Well if the raptors brain trust values OG anywhere near what their board does, he won't be a king. Consensus over there seems to be Murray + more. With that more ranging anywhere from Huerter to monk to mitchell or multiple of those guys plus picks.

Idk about other kings fans but I'm not even considering Murray for OG. Just not even in the same ball park

[mademan]

I don't buy OG being worth the world like they tried to sell last deadline. If he was they would have dealt him without thinking twice.

Imo swapping Huerter for OG straight makes both teams better. They will resign Siakam, and the lineup starts to actually make sense. But of course OG is worth more, just don't think it's that much more.

I'd offer up

Holmes + Huerter + 24 + protected 26 1st for OG + OPJ.

OG has the skills to make a great impact on our defense, but he fits in weird positionally. Guess in one sense it makes us versatile, but I'm not sure if the next step is to add a starting shooting or starting PF. Getting OG/Naz would be an excellent summer.

OG may not net back a star level package, but a decent role player and 2 late picks will 100% be beat on the open market. Raps are gonna need at least 1 strong piece coming back or volume to offset that, and this gives them neither.

"A decent role player".. what do you think OG is? This is a decent role player for a slightly better decent role player?

And its not "2 late picks". You are getting a future 1st from a historically bad franchise, who after this trade would have 3/5th of our best players as impending free agents.

Maybe Toronto can get a better offer on the open market, I doubt it and think if those offers were true he woulda been traded last deadline when raptors were dead in the water. But either way this would be the max I'd be comfortable paying, maybe Monte values him more? I'd certainly hope not. Rather explore other options at that point.

Youre not wrong, i like Huerter a lot. But Huerter is a SG and OG is a big forward. As far role players go, OG is far more valuable and far less attainable.

And yes, it is 1 established late 1st and another first that youve protected so the Raps dont even have upside if the Kings underperform. If this is the max offer from Sactown, then ya, i just dont see it happening. This is why i dont see it working out. Raps are gonna want 1 strong piece to move forward with or a big volume of pieces.

And to the other part, Raps werent dead in the water. They actually ended up buying at the deadline because they dont really have an appetite for tanking. Think of that what you may