Nets only: Drazen Petrovic vs Vince Carter

durantbird · Post #1 » by **durantbird** » Wed May 31, 2023 6:22 am

Who was better as a Nets player?

Owly · Post #2 » by **Owly** » Wed May 31, 2023 8:23 am

Carter. By a mile.

Partly because of issues with Drazen (box production lower than rep, defense, playoffs).
Partly because on arrival Vince (especially first 2/3 year) has pretty elite production and in that year and the next and tbh pretty much throughout his Nets career has pretty big impact signal (sharing the court with Kidd will help the raw stuff of course, maybe other stuff looks worse).
Partly because Carter has a longer Nets career too (and say you didn't want to give that advantage, the worst you can fairly do is chop off weaker years and then see above re production/impact).
Carter's worst PER, BPM in NJ are better than Petro's best and on average or cumulatively there's a pretty large gap.

I don't love how Vince got there (hard not to see the gap between Toronto numbers and NJ and think effort may have contributed) ... Drazen's story is tragic but unless I'm missing something I don't see how this is a contest.

SHAQ32 · Post #3 » by **SHAQ32** » Wed May 31, 2023 9:08 am

How many perimeter players put up 22 ppg on 61 TS% in the 90s

Owly · Post #4 » by **Owly** » Wed May 31, 2023 9:45 am

SHAQ32 wrote:How many perimeter players put up 22 ppg on 61 TS% in the 90s

- Pace and accuracy norms changed over the 90s (e.g. R Miller's usage in the first two 90s years when he hits 22ppg is very slightly lower than the rest of the decade in part because he's slightly less accurate versus league norms [than he was, still higher TS+ than Drazen] but also because the league gets slower and less accurate so for a marginal accuracy change, maybe playing a little less he looks less productive but is putting up a higher TS+ on higher usage than Drazen even when it may only be between 19 and 20ppg.)

- Drazen's only standout area is scoring efficiency. Fuller measures are less bullish.

- Kinda not really Drazen anyway because if that's a threshold stat Drazen doesn't actually meet the TS threshold, that's what you get if you round up his .605 to 2dp. (Again see league norms stuff too. Not that 113 TS+ is bad.)

- As above small samples, personally not a huge playoff weighter, but that season he goes to 15.6. .521 with 4.4 turnovers. Single digit PER (5.6) [or see whichever composites] in the playoffs,

Post #5 » by **tsherkin** » Wed May 31, 2023 2:16 pm

Hard to support Petrovic.

Spent 2.5 seasons with the Nets, averaged a shade under 20/3/3 on 52/45/87. Impressive shooting. Didn't start the first 43 games. Those are Reggie Miller-ish numbers without the fouls drawn. Good, but not stunning, and not there for long enough.

Vince, in roughly double the games, was more of a 24/6/5 guy. Nothing close to Petrovic's efficiency. Indeed, he hovered around league average with the Nets after the trade season. He got them into the semis twice and Petrovic never got past Cleveland.

A simple, first-pass examination. Petrovic was a better shooter who produced more efficient scoring results on the court, but he offered nothing else. And while you can quite legitimately debate the value of a guy who is really good at one thing versus the guy who does a little of everything, as well as how much Vince was responsible for his team's success, I think he was pretty clearly the better player overall (and indeed, the higher-impact offensive player) in those first two or three seasons. Particularly in the playoffs. Petrovic was trash in the 93 playoffs. And Vince was better on D.

Food for thought, and I think we all understand its limitations, but Vince was a +4.1 OBPM guy with New Jersey (+6.2 in the trade season, +4.5, +4.3, +2.6 and +3.3 thereafter). Petrovic topped out at +1.7 in his best season, and posted +0.5, +1.3 and +1.7, then +2.6 and -5.6 in the playoffs. Vince was at +3.8, +7.4 and +2.0 in the playoffs. Again, one number, limited stat, but worth considering.

Jaivl · Post #6 » by **Jaivl** » Wed May 31, 2023 2:44 pm

SHAQ32 wrote:How many perimeter players put up 22 ppg on 61 TS% in the 90s

How many All-NBA perimeter players put up 15.6 ppg on 52 TS%, 1.8 assists and 4.4 TOs with zero defense in the 90s?

HeartBreakKid · Post #7 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed May 31, 2023 3:18 pm

Jaivl wrote:
SHAQ32 wrote:How many perimeter players put up 22 ppg on 61 TS% in the 90s

How many All-NBA perimeter players put up 15.6 ppg on 52 TS%, 1.8 assists and 4.4 TOs with zero defense in the 90s?

hey, i had a bad year, it was my rookie season ok?