Tatum VS Luka

[3toheadmelo]

The only thing consistent here is Mavs fans trying to cope with reality. When Luka runs Kyrie out of town I wonder what next excuse you will run with.

Do you have any substance to back your claims and to counter the much more evidentiary arguments made by essentially everyone else ITT? Or are you comfortable just trolling?

Much evidence has been provided if you read the thread, which it seems obvious you haven’t. Maybe try that, instead of whining because you don’t like what I said about your favorite player.

[_qubik]

really no excuse for dallas to miss the playoffs. but thats what happens when your star player can't fit next to other stars.

Kyrie was there for 20 games and had horrible team chemistry, as he always does. Doncic, Dinwiddie and DFS (even factoring in the trade), Wood and Kleber all missed significant time. They had no bench to speak of. You really ought to know more about the team before you crap on Luka that way.

Actually, the Mavs starters are a great bench mob. So, outside Luka theres not much to speak about.

Some Cs would instantly be starters alongside Luka on the Mavs

[tsherkin]

Much evidence has been provided if you read the thread, which it seems obvious you haven’t. Maybe try that, instead of whining because you don’t like what I said about your favorite player.

Luka isn't my favorite player, you just aren't dealing in reality. You've made a variety of false claims and continue to act as if they haven't been disproven. And I've exhausted about as much effort as I'm willing to here, so have a good one, I'm out.

[tsherkin]

Actually, the Mavs starters are a great bench mob. So, outside Luka theres not much to speak about.

Some Cs would instantly be starters alongside Luka on the Mavs

I'm looking for a little more than 3pt shooting, so aside from Wood, I'm not really feeling it. They're dogcrap on the offensive glass (and mediocre on the defensive boards, too) and they have no backcourt players of consequence who can create. They definitely have strong spacing, but that's it, and they need more.

[3toheadmelo]

Much evidence has been provided if you read the thread, which it seems obvious you haven’t. Maybe try that, instead of whining because you don’t like what I said about your favorite player.

Luka isn't my favorite player, you just aren't dealing in reality. You've made a variety of false claims and continue to act as if they haven't been disproven. And I've exhausted about as much effort as I'm willing to here, so have a good one, I'm out.

Are you done whining?

[Jkam31]

luke can't fit next to ball dominant players. couldnt fit well next to brunson, couldnt adjust his game next to kyrie. dallas is only good when luka ball hogs.

really no excuse for dallas to miss the playoffs. but thats what happens when your star player can't fit next to other stars.

'couldn't fit next to Brunson' to the tune of making the WCF

Read on Twitter

luka ran brunson out of town. ran KP out of town. and will soon run Kyrie out of town. rinse and repeat.

No **** his stats went up he moved up the pecking order and became a starter jesus

[Blame Rasho]

Much evidence has been provided if you read the thread, which it seems obvious you haven’t. Maybe try that, instead of whining because you don’t like what I said about your favorite player.

Luka isn't my favorite player, you just aren't dealing in reality. You've made a variety of false claims and continue to act as if they haven't been disproven. And I've exhausted about as much effort as I'm willing to here, so have a good one, I'm out.

Are you done whining?

Ehhh a rookie talking down to tskerkin… for shame…

[Jkam31]

I don’t think this is a good bump.

We found out that Luka had a lot of help from Brunson who is a better player than Jaylen Brown. The Mavs were so bad this year after Brunson left that they decided to tank.

Tatum was about to make the greatest come back until he got hurt, and has been a finals contender since a rookie.

I apparently voted for Luka but that was a mistake

Wait so Braunson being better tha brown means Tatum>Luka this is wild would any starter on Dallas get rotation minutes besides Kyrie. Boston is probably repeating with Luka but ya let’s throw hate

[JimmyFromNz]

Started at page 1 jumped to the end.

Is there a summary for the 74 pages in between? How did it get to this point?

[dakomish23]

I said I’d take Tatum two years ago even though I’m a big Luka fan boy but it’s razor thin for me.

It’s like asking if I want Lebron or Kobe. Can win a championship with either as your main guy IMO

I stand by this.

[Fadeaway_Jumper]

There is more to each team than 2 guys. The Mavs have significantly lesser talent than Boston.

If Luka is that good how are the expectations so low with Kyrie that they can’t even make the play in?

Around the trade deadline both got injuried and had their own share of problems. Mavs traded away little depth that they had on the roster. After the trade, they had to insert 3 Gleague players into their main rotations on top of Kidd's horrible coaching.

They were already dead last in rebounding but their rim protection went from bad (24th) to worse (27th). They got worse almost on all fronts.
I can't blame Kyrie for that though, he played as expected. Him and Luka were actually the highest scoring duo in the league, but problem was obviously defense and rebounding plus injuries.

Before the trade, Mavs were consistently hovering around 3rd-5th spot but i guess people forgot that Luka basically had to average 36/9/9 at some point. Given his stamina, it was not realistic to expect from him to endure like that for the entire season.

I stand on the fact that 2 All NBA players should at least be able to make the PLAY- IN no matter the circumstances

My Lakers at full strength just got swept by the Nuggets. For all the hate that Booker and KD get they took two games from the Nuggets as literally a two man team. KD landed on the suns at the same time as Kyrie did the Mavs and missed a ton of games.

[Jkam31]

If Luka is that good how are the expectations so low with Kyrie that they can’t even make the play in?

Around the trade deadline both got injuried and had their own share of problems. Mavs traded away little depth that they had on the roster. After the trade, they had to insert 3 Gleague players into their main rotations on top of Kidd's horrible coaching.

They were already dead last in rebounding but their rim protection went from bad (24th) to worse (27th). They got worse almost on all fronts.
I can't blame Kyrie for that though, he played as expected. Him and Luka were actually the highest scoring duo in the league, but problem was obviously defense and rebounding plus injuries.

Before the trade, Mavs were consistently hovering around 3rd-5th spot but i guess people forgot that Luka basically had to average 36/9/9 at some point. Given his stamina, it was not realistic to expect from him to endure like that for the entire season.

I stand on the fact that 2 All NBA players should at least be able to make the PLAY- IN no matter the circumstances

My Lakers at full strength just got swept by the Nuggets. For all the hate that Booker and KD get they took two games from the Nuggets as literally a two man team. KD landed on the suns at the same time as Kyrie did the Mavs and missed a ton of games.

Kyrie isn’t an all nba player and Dwight **** powell has incriminating pictures on management

[Archx]

If Luka is that good how are the expectations so low with Kyrie that they can’t even make the play in?

Around the trade deadline both got injuried and had their own share of problems. Mavs traded away little depth that they had on the roster. After the trade, they had to insert 3 Gleague players into their main rotations on top of Kidd's horrible coaching.

They were already dead last in rebounding but their rim protection went from bad (24th) to worse (27th). They got worse almost on all fronts.
I can't blame Kyrie for that though, he played as expected. Him and Luka were actually the highest scoring duo in the league, but problem was obviously defense and rebounding plus injuries.

Before the trade, Mavs were consistently hovering around 3rd-5th spot but i guess people forgot that Luka basically had to average 36/9/9 at some point. Given his stamina, it was not realistic to expect from him to endure like that for the entire season.

I stand on the fact that 2 All NBA players should at least be able to make the PLAY- IN no matter the circumstances

My Lakers at full strength just got swept by the Nuggets. For all the hate that Booker and KD get they took two games from the Nuggets as literally a two man team. KD landed on the suns at the same time as Kyrie did the Mavs and missed a ton of games.

This post just shows how little you know of the dysfunctional Mavs team coached by probably one of the bottom 5 coaches in the league. Suns still had more depth than Mavs and a center capable of providing rim protection and averaging 20/10. Mavs have almost nothing after Doncic... They had an injuried Kyrie and that's it.

[CobraCommander]

Around the trade deadline both got injuried and had their own share of problems. Mavs traded away little depth that they had on the roster. After the trade, they had to insert 3 Gleague players into their main rotations on top of Kidd's horrible coaching.

They were already dead last in rebounding but their rim protection went from bad (24th) to worse (27th). They got worse almost on all fronts.
I can't blame Kyrie for that though, he played as expected. Him and Luka were actually the highest scoring duo in the league, but problem was obviously defense and rebounding plus injuries.

Before the trade, Mavs were consistently hovering around 3rd-5th spot but i guess people forgot that Luka basically had to average 36/9/9 at some point. Given his stamina, it was not realistic to expect from him to endure like that for the entire season.

I stand on the fact that 2 All NBA players should at least be able to make the PLAY- IN no matter the circumstances

My Lakers at full strength just got swept by the Nuggets. For all the hate that Booker and KD get they took two games from the Nuggets as literally a two man team. KD landed on the suns at the same time as Kyrie did the Mavs and missed a ton of games.

This post just shows how little you know of the dysfunctional Mavs team coached by probably one of the bottom 5 coaches in the league. Suns still had more depth than Mavs and a center capable of providing rim protection and averaging 20/10. Mavs have almost nothing after Doncic... They had an injuried Kyrie and that's it.

How many passes does Luka get for missing the play in?

I think Tatum has the edge because he is that much better on defense and closer to Luka on offens.

I get why y’all have Luka ahead but Luka year 6 now- time to stop coddling him like he 18...Luka has been playing pro ball over 10 years and is still not in condition, crying about fouls, getting techs and not playing defense. Add the on the court character issues with the lack of commitment to fitness and Tatum is much better than Luka.

But it’s razor thin- but at some point y’all gotta stop saying Luka ain’t got help when he got Kyrie Brunson KP Spence etc - At some point Luka gotta be responsible too.

[CobraCommander]

This whole thread a bunch of guys that care more about Luka being great than Luka does....

Get in elite shape, play some defense and stop whining- Luka is the best pure talent we seen since maybe Lebron, KD or Curry but he doesn’t seem to have the real professionalism that Manning. MJ, Kobe,bird Giannis, Lebron, Jokic or Giannis have that make them better because they focus on the details 24/7-

Luka out here the same guy in year 5 he was in year one...that sounds more like Dwight Howard than Kobe....good enough to be great but not committed enough to be all time great....stans I welcome your feedback...but my points are irrefutable-

Other ballers like Lebron calling him Hookah and Dinwiddie said on the Gil podcast he has to want to get in elite shape.

It’s a travesty that a guy as good and good looking as him ain’t even in the running for face of the league....his merch ain’t moving like it should AND his endorsements not where they could be. Luka was what 8th in mvp vote this year? He is moving in reverse by standing still-


His fans should be frustrated as hell- Lebron talent but not doing the little things...can’t blame then GM or coach for the techs defense and conditioning-


Tatum just ain’t as talented as Luka...it ain’t close talent wise....so why is this even close in the minds of the people? Tatum plays both sides of the ball...in shape. Making deep..in playoffs runs in Boston too...had best game 7 and best quarter ever type crap...so he can ball...but he ain’t a Luka talent

[nikster]

The Celtics have proved how important shot creation and playmaking is. Very talented team but their offense completely falls apart when thing slow down since they don't have any ody to have create.

Tatum has the edge defensively, but I can't imagine that makes up for the massive gap as a scorer/offensively

Luka's offensive gap is only significant as a passer. Both are three-level scorers with the ability to get to the line. Scoring volume difference is due to FGA/g. DRB the same. TS% about the same. Accounting for Tatum's better defense and playing more games, it comes out about even.

Luka fans were drooling over the prospect of Kyrie coming to town. Many had penciled him in as the MVP favorite when that move happened. Then they fell off the cliff.

Meanwhile, the Mavs dump Brunson and Brunson leads the Knicks to the cusp of the conference finals while having his best season ever. KP goes to WAS and his numbers improve. Wood comes to DAL and his numbers decline.

Maybe it's less that Luka is carrying everyone else and more that Luka's playstyle suffocates others somewhat.

And then in the playoff there is a massive difference in scoring. Punctuated by the fact that Luka creates far more of his shots himself, making him more resiliant in the playoffs. In the playoffs about 50% of Tatums field goals are assisted, Lukas 20%. Luka is a far superior offensive player in the playoffs....and its not even close. Wonder how many more offensive collapses you need to see from the Celtics

Kyrie didnt decline or get smothered at all (Tho the team fell apart due to horrible roster construction). Woods points per 100 possession is actually a career high. He's just playing less because he's not very good. Kristaps only improvement is staying healthy for the most of a season. Brunson has a case...but he was one of the highest usage players in the league this year. Im sure Brunson would fit better with Tatum, but im also sure Brown is a better fit with Luka then he is in Boston.

[Mephariel]

This whole thread a bunch of guys that care more about Luka being great than Luka does....

Get in elite shape, play some defense and stop whining- Luka is the best pure talent we seen since maybe Lebron, KD or Curry but he doesn’t seem to have the real professionalism that Manning. MJ, Kobe,bird Giannis, Lebron, Jokic or Giannis have that make them better because they focus on the details 24/7-

Luka out here the same guy in year 5 he was in year one...that sounds more like Dwight Howard than Kobe....good enough to be great but not committed enough to be all time great....stans I welcome your feedback...but my points are irrefutable-

Other ballers like Lebron calling him Hookah and Dinwiddie said on the Gil podcast he has to want to get in elite shape.

It’s a travesty that a guy as good and good looking as him ain’t even in the running for face of the league....his merch ain’t moving like it should AND his endorsements not where they could be. Luka was what 8th in mvp vote this year? He is moving in reverse by standing still-


His fans should be frustrated as hell- Lebron talent but not doing the little things...cause blame then GM or coach for the techs defense and conditioning

I don't think he is Lebron talent. Especially talent to be the face of the league. Lebron has verticality. That is a easy sell. Lebron is what people dream about being if they become an NBA basketball player. Luka is a savant on offense, but his talent is less sellable.

[CobraCommander]

This whole thread a bunch of guys that care more about Luka being great than Luka does....

Get in elite shape, play some defense and stop whining- Luka is the best pure talent we seen since maybe Lebron, KD or Curry but he doesn’t seem to have the real professionalism that Manning. MJ, Kobe,bird Giannis, Lebron, Jokic or Giannis have that make them better because they focus on the details 24/7-

Luka out here the same guy in year 5 he was in year one...that sounds more like Dwight Howard than Kobe....good enough to be great but not committed enough to be all time great....stans I welcome your feedback...but my points are irrefutable-

Other ballers like Lebron calling him Hookah and Dinwiddie said on the Gil podcast he has to want to get in elite shape.

It’s a travesty that a guy as good and good looking as him ain’t even in the running for face of the league....his merch ain’t moving like it should AND his endorsements not where they could be. Luka was what 8th in mvp vote this year? He is moving in reverse by standing still-


His fans should be frustrated as hell- Lebron talent but not doing the little things...cause blame then GM or coach for the techs defense and conditioning

I don't think he is Lebron talent. Especially talent to be the face of the league. Lebron has verticality. That is a easy sell. Lebron is what people dream about being if they become an NBA basketball player. Luka is a savant on offense, but his talent is less sellable.

My argument is - how do we know - we acting like we have seen peak shape Luka when dude out there looking like harden

If Lebron trained like Luka he would have been out the league already...Luka might be an amazing athlete if he got in top shape.

One of the most athletic things I have ever seen is that Luka put back rebound to force OT when he went for 60.... I think Luka IS an amazing athlete that has got by BSing cause he can score...but if he wants to be great he has to push it to the limit like all the true greats...otherwise what is he?

Luka a rich rich rich guy that has “made it” but has so much to prove - take Giannis mind set and give it to Luka and we having different conversation

[ITYSL]

The Celtics have proved how important shot creation and playmaking is. Very talented team but their offense completely falls apart when thing slow down since they don't have any ody to have create.

Tatum has the edge defensively, but I can't imagine that makes up for the massive gap as a scorer/offensively

Luka's offensive gap is only significant as a passer. Both are three-level scorers with the ability to get to the line. Scoring volume difference is due to FGA/g. DRB the same. TS% about the same. Accounting for Tatum's better defense and playing more games, it comes out about even.

Luka fans were drooling over the prospect of Kyrie coming to town. Many had penciled him in as the MVP favorite when that move happened. Then they fell off the cliff.

Meanwhile, the Mavs dump Brunson and Brunson leads the Knicks to the cusp of the conference finals while having his best season ever. KP goes to WAS and his numbers improve. Wood comes to DAL and his numbers decline.

Maybe it's less that Luka is carrying everyone else and more that Luka's playstyle suffocates others somewhat.

And then in the playoff there is a massive difference in scoring. Punctuated by the fact that Luka creates far more of his shots himself, making him more resiliant in the playoffs. In the playoffs about 50% of Tatums field goals are assisted, Lukas 20%. Luka is a far superior offensive player in the playoffs....and its not even close. Wonder how many more offensive collapses you need to see from the Celtics

Kyrie didnt decline or get smothered at all (Tho the team fell apart due to horrible roster construction). Woods points per 100 possession is actually a career high. He's just playing less because he's not very good. Kristaps only improvement is staying healthy for the most of a season. Brunson has a case...but he was one of the highest usage players in the league this year. Im sure Brunson would fit better with Tatum, but im also sure Brown is a better fit with Luka then he is in Boston.

Playoffs? Luka couldn't even make the playoffs with Kyrie this year. Harp on the Celtics' offensive collapses all you want, at least they happened in the conference finals or the finals. Luka didn't even make the play-in. Does that matter at all, or nah? Luka, Kyrie and some role players couldn't do better than an OKC team that was 2 games under .500?

JB would languish alongside Luka, just like nearly every other SG he plays along that has to watch him dribble it around for most of the possession before either shooting or kicking it with little time left on the shot clock. Middle of the league in offense this year (16th), bottom third of the league in offense last year (24th), and middle of the league in offense the year before that (17th). I'm sure, according to Luka fans, this is none of Luka's fault and Cuban just has to build a better team around him.

[MavsDirk41]

luke can't fit next to ball dominant players. couldnt fit well next to brunson, couldnt adjust his game next to kyrie. dallas is only good when luka ball hogs.

really no excuse for dallas to miss the playoffs. but thats what happens when your star player can't fit next to other stars.

Its Luka not Luke and him and Brunson were a great fit next together. Luka needs a better supporting cast and if you replaced Tatum with Luka on the Celtics do you think Boston is worse? Tatum is a much better defender and is better at getting to the basket. Luka is a much better passer and would probably be a better fit with Brown. I wish Luka and Porzingis would have worked better together.

boston is a top 3 defensive team in the league. and tatum plays a massive part in that. you replace him with luka their defense identity goes away and they turn into the chicago bulls.

I agree that Tatum plays a large part in their defensive identity but they still have enough to cover for Luka. Imagine how much better Horford and Williams would be playing with a playmaker like Luka.