2023 NBA Draft (tonight's discussion on pg 58)

[Jsun947]

I’m just gonna come out and say it… Miller is a mediocre prospect and I hope we don’t draft him. He screams middle of the pack starter floor and very low end all star ceiling.

I really hope we don’t draft him.

Amen could be a good nab but if Scoot is there we almost have to grab him

Oh, for sure. If we’re able to draft Scoot you take him, and then I trade Dame 100/100 times.

My dream scenario would be Scoot and then turning everything else like Dame & Simons into Walker & Hendricks

Scoot, Sharpe, Walker, Hendricks would be a very very good start to a rebuild, especially if we have cap space to take on short term contracts for draft assets while we develop players the next couple of seasons. There won’t be many terrible teams next year & I don’t think people realize how desperate teams will be to get off money at the start of the new CBA. I’d want to be in position to take advantage of it.

[JasonStern]

Simple offseason -

Draft Scoot #3
Trade Simons, 23 for DDR, FRP returned
Resign MT, Drew

G - Damian Lillard (35) / Scoot Henderson (13)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (28) / Scoot Henderson (13) / Matisse Thybulle (5)
F - Demar DeRozan (16) / Nas Little (18) / Matisse Thybulle (14)
F - Jerami Grant (34) / Demar Derozan (14)
C - Jusuf Nurkic (26) / Drew Eubanks (22)

Get a mild cost win now guy in DDR - dont mortgage the future and still take BPA in Scoot - simple.

I like the premise -- draft with #3, use Simons and #23 for an upgrade -- and the major acquisition in DeRozan. Two big questions, though. First, will Scoot be there at #3? I doubt it, and from your other posts I think maybe you doubt it too. Second, how much money is Grant signing for? It may or may not be worth it. If you subtract Grant, and Scoot is Miller instead, the resulting roster holds less promise. On the other hand, if Grant is retained, DeRozan is almost certainly a goner after one year, which leaves the Blazers desperate for a quality wing once again.

Again, in general I like the direction, but as much of a win-now (and win-later... win always!) guy as I am, I acknowledge that there are downstream consequences to moves and am starting to admit the Blazers had better think two or three steps ahead instead of simply trying to load up the roster as much as possible for next year. In light of this, and to repeat the concerns, they are that Miller (or a Thompson, etc.) may be far less of a coup than Scoot both for the near- and long-term, and that retaining Grant may simply not be economical, and keeping him or not keeping him likely means a big hole at forward sooner than later.

Am I talking myself out of keeping Grant? I might be. Time to explore other options... *finds other options bleak* ...oh.

As the biggest proponent of "keep #3, move Simons for DDR" on RealGM, I view DDR on an expiring contract as a positive. If he was locked up for 3 years on a reasonable contract, or if he wasn't about to fall off a cliff athleticism-wise, his value would reflect that and the Blazers would be foolish to give that asking price. A one-year rental doesn't lock Portland into some long-term commitment. Simons is a nice piece who is young, but he's just the modern Jamal Crawford. And if you're trying to appease Dame, DDR (also 33) is the perfect "well, we tried" move. Including #23/43 and getting our future 1st back would be icing on the cake.

We're the Blazers. If we trade #3 for someone like Siakam, which sounds fine on paper, Scoot/Miller are going to be perennial all-stars and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb that move was. Likewise, if we take Scoot/Miller, they will be a bust and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb taking them was when we could have MASSIVELY overpaid for OG Anunoby.

Say what you want about Cronin, but the Grant trade was solid. Imagine trading a LOCKED late future 1st for a CJ tier player instead of trading a "we will give it within the next 8 years" pick for 37 games of Larry Nance Jr., which he was a backup for 26 of them. And injured for the rest. Olshey was such a trash GM.

[BlazersBroncos]

Simple offseason -

Draft Scoot #3
Trade Simons, 23 for DDR, FRP returned
Resign MT, Drew

G - Damian Lillard (35) / Scoot Henderson (13)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (28) / Scoot Henderson (13) / Matisse Thybulle (5)
F - Demar DeRozan (16) / Nas Little (18) / Matisse Thybulle (14)
F - Jerami Grant (34) / Demar Derozan (14)
C - Jusuf Nurkic (26) / Drew Eubanks (22)

Get a mild cost win now guy in DDR - dont mortgage the future and still take BPA in Scoot - simple.

I like the premise -- draft with #3, use Simons and #23 for an upgrade -- and the major acquisition in DeRozan. Two big questions, though. First, will Scoot be there at #3? I doubt it, and from your other posts I think maybe you doubt it too. Second, how much money is Grant signing for? It may or may not be worth it. If you subtract Grant, and Scoot is Miller instead, the resulting roster holds less promise. On the other hand, if Grant is retained, DeRozan is almost certainly a goner after one year, which leaves the Blazers desperate for a quality wing once again.

Again, in general I like the direction, but as much of a win-now (and win-later... win always!) guy as I am, I acknowledge that there are downstream consequences to moves and am starting to admit the Blazers had better think two or three steps ahead instead of simply trying to load up the roster as much as possible for next year. In light of this, and to repeat the concerns, they are that Miller (or a Thompson, etc.) may be far less of a coup than Scoot both for the near- and long-term, and that retaining Grant may simply not be economical, and keeping him or not keeping him likely means a big hole at forward sooner than later.

Am I talking myself out of keeping Grant? I might be. Time to explore other options... *finds other options bleak* ...oh.

As the biggest proponent of "keep #3, move Simons for DDR" on RealGM, I view DDR on an expiring contract as a positive. If he was locked up for 3 years on a reasonable contract, or if he wasn't about to fall off a cliff athleticism-wise, his value would reflect that and the Blazers would be foolish to give that asking price. A one-year rental doesn't lock Portland into some long-term commitment. Simons is a nice piece who is young, but he's just the modern Jamal Crawford. And if you're trying to appease Dame, DDR (also 33) is the perfect "well, we tried" move. Including #23/43 and getting our future 1st back would be icing on the cake.

We're the Blazers. If we trade #3 for someone like Siakam, which sounds fine on paper, Scoot/Miller are going to be perennial all-stars and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb that move was. Likewise, if we take Scoot/Miller, they will be a bust and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb taking them was when we could have MASSIVELY overpaid for OG Anunoby.

Say what you want about Cronin, but the Grant trade was solid. Imagine trading a LOCKED late future 1st for a CJ tier player instead of trading a "we will give it within the next 8 years" pick for 37 games of Larry Nance Jr., which he was a backup for 26 of them. And injured for the rest. Olshey was such a trash GM.

Amen. We are on the exact same page here. I also like the idea of adding that 'win-now' value piece (DDR) while allowing the youngsters to grow. Winning is ideal youth development. When you bottom out you have to worry about being like Houston - a team with talent but a trash culture and no vets to add direction.

[zzaj]

I like the premise -- draft with #3, use Simons and #23 for an upgrade -- and the major acquisition in DeRozan. Two big questions, though. First, will Scoot be there at #3? I doubt it, and from your other posts I think maybe you doubt it too. Second, how much money is Grant signing for? It may or may not be worth it. If you subtract Grant, and Scoot is Miller instead, the resulting roster holds less promise. On the other hand, if Grant is retained, DeRozan is almost certainly a goner after one year, which leaves the Blazers desperate for a quality wing once again.

Again, in general I like the direction, but as much of a win-now (and win-later... win always!) guy as I am, I acknowledge that there are downstream consequences to moves and am starting to admit the Blazers had better think two or three steps ahead instead of simply trying to load up the roster as much as possible for next year. In light of this, and to repeat the concerns, they are that Miller (or a Thompson, etc.) may be far less of a coup than Scoot both for the near- and long-term, and that retaining Grant may simply not be economical, and keeping him or not keeping him likely means a big hole at forward sooner than later.

Am I talking myself out of keeping Grant? I might be. Time to explore other options... *finds other options bleak* ...oh.

As the biggest proponent of "keep #3, move Simons for DDR" on RealGM, I view DDR on an expiring contract as a positive. If he was locked up for 3 years on a reasonable contract, or if he wasn't about to fall off a cliff athleticism-wise, his value would reflect that and the Blazers would be foolish to give that asking price. A one-year rental doesn't lock Portland into some long-term commitment. Simons is a nice piece who is young, but he's just the modern Jamal Crawford. And if you're trying to appease Dame, DDR (also 33) is the perfect "well, we tried" move. Including #23/43 and getting our future 1st back would be icing on the cake.

We're the Blazers. If we trade #3 for someone like Siakam, which sounds fine on paper, Scoot/Miller are going to be perennial all-stars and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb that move was. Likewise, if we take Scoot/Miller, they will be a bust and everyone will retroactively laugh at how dumb taking them was when we could have MASSIVELY overpaid for OG Anunoby.

Say what you want about Cronin, but the Grant trade was solid. Imagine trading a LOCKED late future 1st for a CJ tier player instead of trading a "we will give it within the next 8 years" pick for 37 games of Larry Nance Jr., which he was a backup for 26 of them. And injured for the rest. Olshey was such a trash GM.

Amen. We are on the exact same page here. I also like the idea of adding that 'win-now' value piece (DDR) while allowing the youngsters to grow. Winning is ideal youth development. When you bottom out you have to worry about being like Houston - a team with talent but a trash culture and no vets to add direction.

Yeah, I'm not sure where this 'DDR is trash' temperature comes from--maybe his not shooting a lot of threes or flashy play, or something. But DDR would INSTANTLY be the second best player on this team if he was in PDX...and it's not even very close.

24/5/5 on good efficiency, good defense and plenty of trips to the foul line. It's the one trade that I think makes sense for Portland...especially considering it'd likely appease Lillard.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Did anybody trash DDR? I too am all for bringing in DeRozan and hope I didn't come across as skeptical. Rather, I wonder whether Grant needs to be the casualty of such a move and in preparation for future moves. His offensive primacy would be reduced next to DeMar (and with Sharpe inheriting most of Simons' shots). If he's a limited contributor at both ends and nonexistent on the glass, is it really responsible to pay him $30 million/year long-term? Some folks raised ideas of a S&T for John Collins or Jalen Smith at T&T to get Grant paid by Atlanta or Indiana. I like how that would balance the roster when coupled with a DeRozan move. Still need another guard with Simons outgoing, but bring back Eubanks and Thybulle and it starts to look like a pretty complete team. Anyway, these are not draft thoughts, so sorry if we're veering off-topic...

[The Sebastian Express]

Some people on the trade board make this entire process stressful. This is such a fun time of the year but there are really some moments out there that make you have to hold your tongue.

We had some mid-20s to second rounders in today. Including Sidy Cissoko. This kid is intriguing to me but I don't think he'll be there for our second round pick.

[zzaj]

Did anybody trash DDR?

Yeah, there has been quite a bit of DDR trashing here (and on the GB)...

I often forget about Thybulle as another important piece of the Blazer puzzle next season.
IMHO,

Lillard, #3, Sharpe, Derozan, Grant

Lillard/Mays (or Scoot)
Sharpe/Thybulle
DeRozan/Sharpe/Thybulle (or Miller)
Grant/DeRozan
Nurkic/Gresham

...makes the POs pretty easily. Nice blend of young and veteran talent. And before anybody gets on me about putting DDR in at backup PF, go look at the position he played between 32%-81% of the time the past 3 years.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Did anybody trash DDR?

Yeah, there has been quite a bit of DDR trashing here (and on the GB)...

Oh, guess I haven't been paying close enough attention. I know he's been unpopular in the past when compared unfairly with superior stars and vilified for his playoff woes, but he's an excellent, consistent player. The Blazers would be fortunate to have him!

[BlazersBroncos]

I wonder if PHX would be interested in a Jerami for Ayton type move - something like -

Grant (S&T) for Ayton
Nurkic for Shamet

They end up w/ -

G - Chris Paul
G - Devin Booker
F - Jerami Grant
F - Kevin Durant
C - Jusuf Nurkic

Meanwhile, PDX does the above then uses Simons + 23 for DDR + FRP returned -

G - Damian Lillard / Landry Shamet
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Matisse Thybulle
F - Demar DeRozan / Nas Little
F - Brandon Miller / Justice Winslow
C - DeAndre Ayton / Drew Eubanks

[LoveMyRaps]

[The Sebastian Express]

I don't think you're getting the third and three more first rounders for Pascal. If you want the extra picks for taking on Simmons' contract, it's Brooklyn that has to make up the value. Not Portland.

[LoveMyRaps]

I don't think you're getting the third and three more first rounders for Pascal. If you want the extra picks for taking on Simmons' contract, it's Brooklyn that has to make up the value. Not Portland.

You don't think Pascal is worth Simons + #3 + 2 first rounders ?

If that is the case, could take out that 2026 first rounder and replace with Nas.

[BlazersBroncos]

I would have issues moving Simons and 3 for Pascal, much less adding 2 FRP.

Much rather go the DDR route - a level below Pascal but not going to cost #3.

This current team + Pascal still isnt a true contender. Burning 3 and future picks to get into that middle of the pack playoff spot would be insane. Especially with Denver hitting a stride likely to last a few years. I think they dominate for a while, and a PDX team + Pascal still gets spanked by the Joker and Co.

[Jsun947]

I would have issues moving Simons and 3 for Pascal, much less adding 2 FRP.

Much rather go the DDR route - a level below Pascal but not going to cost #3.

This current team + Pascal still isnt a true contender. Burning 3 and future picks to get into that middle of the pack playoff spot would be insane. Especially with Denver hitting a stride likely to last a few years. I think they dominate for a while, and a PDX team + Pascal still gets spanked by the Joker and Co.

If we could trade #3, Simons, Nurkic, and Little and end up with Pascal & Turner I’d consider it. That team makes sense to me and has a chance to compete for a title.

That would probably have to look something like #3 & Nurkic for # 7 and Turner then #7, Simons, Little for Siakam.

By all reports though Toronto feels like Siakam’s value is close to what Durant was traded for.

[JasonStern]

Did anybody trash DDR?

Yes! But like last call at a bar, a lot of people are realizing their options.

DDR is an amazing player. But Chicago underperformed, missing the playoffs with him. He's 33 - a win now piece, which Chicago is not. And he's expiring. Simons is a nice piece to have. But if the Blazers are keeping Dame - which is its own discussion - retaining Grant and a Simons/DDR swap makes so much sense. Same with the NYK pick for our pick back. Throw in some of the GP2 2nd round picks if that's the sticking point. But that's it. That's the move. You don't trade #3 for a non-difference maker when just using #3 is your best chance at a difference maker. You also don't blow the team up for the chance of making the playoffs. Now, if a true top 15 player becomes available, you consider mortgaging the future. But that doesn't seem realistic right now.

Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome, but I'm not opposed to drafting Scoot and keeping Dame. Olshey in my head, telling me to acquire as many 6'3" or smaller guards as possible... But in all seriousness, draft the BPA.

[Moonbeam]

Seeing Nick Nurse and Monty Williams hired by other teams makes the idea of contending that much harder to believe knowing Portland is saddled with Billups as the coach.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I don't think you're getting the third and three more first rounders for Pascal. If you want the extra picks for taking on Simmons' contract, it's Brooklyn that has to make up the value. Not Portland.

You don't think Pascal is worth Simons + #3 + 2 first rounders ?

If that is the case, could take out that 2026 first rounder and replace with Nas.

Not a chance! Portland is not giving up that much for an expiring contract. Doubt they'd do that if he was signed long-term. He alone does not put the Blazers in contention, yet you just gave away all of their trade assets.

[PDXKnight]

I don't think you're getting the third and three more first rounders for Pascal. If you want the extra picks for taking on Simmons' contract, it's Brooklyn that has to make up the value. Not Portland.

You don't think Pascal is worth Simons + #3 + 2 first rounders ?

If that is the case, could take out that 2026 first rounder and replace with Nas.

Pascal isnt even worth 3 alone to me but I guess it depends where you see portland going

[Norm2953]

Remember Pascal will be expecting a max contract extension and the new CBA makes it
more difficult to justify paying max contracts to non-elite players.

It appears the sweet spot for teams that wish to compete will be the payrolls that fall just
short of the second tax apron. I'm skeptical with Pascal, Portland would be a playoff
contender and adding Pascal's extension with Dame is the situation Boston faces with
Brown/Tatum for a team that is a playoff contender.

If Portland had any sense, they'd let Grant walk if they were intent on adding the so
called win now player.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Grant could’ve walked or cost $30million from Detroit, and they went young … Portland gave them an asset.
Siakam is Toronto’s most expensive player who is up for more in a year. Add that to FVV and GTJ wanting money this summer and OG with the opt-out next year. In other words, Siakam is a good target to land … as is Jaylen Brown with his mega deal a year away.

Bridges is the one with a longer, good contract, but it’s a player’s (and agents) league.

I’m hopeful for a seriously better Blazers team.