2023 Draft Discussion Part 5

[Yallbecrazy]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

[HumbleRen]

This is probably my bet for the draft.

1. Spurs - Wemby
2. CHAR - Scoot
3. POR - Miller
4. HOU - Amen
5. DET - Hendricks
6. ORL - Ausar
7. INDY - Jarace
8. WAS - Black
9. UTAH - Cason
10. DAL - Dick (They trade it)
11. ORL - Keyonte G
12. OKC - Leonard M
13. TOR - Bufkin/Couli
14. PELS - Lively
15. HAWKS - Hawkins

[WuTang_CMB]

So far this how I think it shakes out

1. Spurs - Wemby
2. CHAR - Miller
3. POR - Scoot (keeping it)
4. HOU - Amen
5. DET - Hendricks
6. ORL - Ausur
7. Indy - Jarace
8. Wash - Whitmore
9. Utah - Dick
10. Dal - Cason
11. ORL - NSJ
12. OKC - Leonard M
13. TOR - Bufkin or Couli

I think Lively has to go somewhere in there and that Dick falls not so much based on what he does but other players just having more complete games w better two-way ability.

I don't think Lively goes lottery

[mademan]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

yall keep sayng this, and i dont see why not. Poeltl isnt some great attraction around the league and the cap space teams almost all have C's (besides Houston, and im not sure what makes Houston more attractive for him). I dont see anyway that he doesnt return. Where else is he gonna go? Unless he's taking MLE money, and ill believe that when i see it

[WuTang_CMB]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

Dont think thats the case. Poeltl is just a straight up solid centre that can play with any team. If siakam is gone, you can still put him next to OG and Scottie in the front court. Plus we are going to operate above the cap again so no point letting him go

[ItsDanger]

If Pascal & Fred are removed from the top 6 key players, and its more of a youth movement, I could definitely see Poeltl not wanting to re-sign here. Its a significant possibility.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

If one team looking for a center believes in Lively as a stretch 5 then they're gonna pull the trigger in the lottery. Some team will see the obvious all defense potential and then he goes and nails open 3s in a workout and they will think they have a steal and do it. His offensive touches even in the limited capacity he got them all registered extremely high in terms of efficiency and advanced stats. He's an elite finisher.

I almost want to take him at 13

[WuTang_CMB]

busted

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[ArthurVandelay]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

yall keep sayng this, and i dont see why not. Poeltl isnt some great attraction around the league and the cap space teams almost all have C's (besides Houston, and im not sure what makes Houston more attractive for him). I dont see anyway that he doesnt return. Where else is he gonna go? Unless he's taking MLE money, and ill believe that when i see it

Can’t remember where I saw it..hoopshype? Here?…but there was a tweet with Jabari Smith stats playing C. It was like 15/10, good 3pt%, and 1.8 blk. Said it was something Houston should look at.

Plus they have Sengun.

Not sure Houston needs a C.

[Yallbecrazy]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

yall keep sayng this, and i dont see why not. Poeltl isnt some great attraction around the league and the cap space teams almost all have C's (besides Houston, and im not sure what makes Houston more attractive for him). I dont see anyway that he doesnt return. Where else is he gonna go? Unless he's taking MLE money, and ill believe that when i see it

Poeltl's own words were he doesn't want to sign with a team that is rebuilding. He's said multiple times he will be open to re-signing with the Raptors as long as they don't opt to rebuild.

[mademan]

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

yall keep sayng this, and i dont see why not. Poeltl isnt some great attraction around the league and the cap space teams almost all have C's (besides Houston, and im not sure what makes Houston more attractive for him). I dont see anyway that he doesnt return. Where else is he gonna go? Unless he's taking MLE money, and ill believe that when i see it

Poeltl's own words were he doesn't want to sign with a team that is rebuilding. He's said multiple times he will be open to re-signing with the Raptors as long as they don't opt to rebuild.

Poeltl can want what he wants, but theres no cap space out there. He's either taking a big paycut or coming back, and guys rarely take paycuts, let alone big ones.

[ArthurVandelay]

I've really come around to the idea of trying to trade into another pick early to mid-lottery, whether that's a Siakam trade or what. I think we could build a future backcourt in one night. If it's possible to get Scoot, great. But even if not, try to get a 4-8 pick to take Cason Wallace and then use 13 on someone like Bufkin or Coulibaly (who I think can play 2 in the NBA).

A lineup of the following is intriguing (not great next year but serious growth potential):
C - Poeltl
F - Barnes
F - OG
G - Coulibaly/Bufkin
G - Wallace

And then possibly try to sign-and-trade Fred and/or Gary for some depth.

Maybe still missing elite top end talent (unless Barnes and one of those rookies really take off), but at least it's more balanced and we can build from there. I also don't think we're going to be able to address the top end talent gap this summer anyway.

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

Dont think thats the case. Poeltl is just a straight up solid centre that can play with any team. If siakam is gone, you can still put him next to OG and Scottie in the front court. Plus we are going to operate above the cap again so no point letting him go

$$$ going to be a significant factor. These are Poeltl’s prime earning years and Raptors have his Bird Rights. He did an interview in Austria just after season acknowledging money is important.

[WuTang_CMB]

If we trade Siakam we're not re-signing Poeltl.

Dont think thats the case. Poeltl is just a straight up solid centre that can play with any team. If siakam is gone, you can still put him next to OG and Scottie in the front court. Plus we are going to operate above the cap again so no point letting him go

$$$ going to be a significant factor. These are Poeltl’s prime earning years and Raptors have his Bird Rights. He did an interview in Austria just after season acknowledging money is important.

And we are going to pay him $20M. The backlash letting him walk after dealing next year's pick is not something this front office will do. Plus he fits with or without Siakam.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

Masai really backed himself into a corner with Poeltl. The guy's a very good player but really offers the most value when you need him to match up with another team using a power center. Now we're all worrying about essentially losing a 1st rounder over a 90's center who can't shoot.

[REJECTEDBYCLARK]

And make no mistake if you field Poeltl on the floor you better have tons of shooters out there. Right now Poeltl and Barnes together is a disaster. So much of our team's success is dependent on fit and "what ifs" and projecting how that fit can *possibly* materialize through player growth with a strong possibility it won't.

Just a frustrating team and situation right now. Maybe honestly just S&T Poeltl and get back what we can especially if he's money hungry.

[WuTang_CMB]

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[bboyskinnylegs]

can't fall victim to sunk cost fallacy. If Poeltl doesn't want to come back because we've finally decided that it's time to rebuild, we do the same thing that we'll do with Fred or GTJ if they don't want to come back - see if there's a s&t that works for both sides, or let them walk and move on to the next thing. Yes, it will make the mid-season trade look dumb in hindsight, but you can't let that keep you from doing what you determine needs to be done to get this team back on track.

For the same reason, we probably also shouldn't overlook Lively as a prospect just because we think we are 'set' at C.

[gbball]

If we didn't trade for Poeltl, we'd have a top 10 pick right now. Doubt they would use it on a center.

If we were picking 10th, I'd still want Coulibaly. He has a chance to be the best player in the draft for a team that's patient.

Edit: top 10 is probably too much of a reach for him. So I'm looking at the bright side. Had we had a top 5 pick in Giannis' year do we risk taking him that high? We're in a perfect draft range to have a good shot a high upside project. Not too high to take him, not so low that there's a high chance of missing him.

We had two major holes on the team, now it's just one. It doesn't matter how you get the pieces, so long as you get them. Masai thinks Peoltl can be a starting Center on a championship team. Now we have a chance to add a high ceiling 3 level scorer with athleticism and defense.

A player like Coulibaly will bring some much needed optimism to the team.

The thought of losing a lottery selection for a starter/rotation player doesn't sit well with me. BPA is the way to go, let Flynn start. I'm ready for 16 win season and a top 6 selection in 2024.

If we start Flynn with Dowtin as a backup. I don't see how we'd be worse than this year. How many games did Fred win us, how many did he lose us? I like Fred. But I see him as a better fit at 6th man where he can try to takeover more. Flynn would just share the ball with guys like OG, Siakam and Barnes who need higher usage while providing some spacing. A little bit of Yin to the Yang of the rest of the starters. You need balance.

[gbball]

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I like everything about Bufkin except his lack of athleticism. His slight build and lack of vertical will limit his potential. I see Jordan Poole with good defense, which is a very good player, but he's not an elite shooter and he doesn't have the athleticism of a Donovan Mitchell.

[WuTang_CMB]

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I like everything about Bufkin except his lack of athleticism. His slight build and lack of vertical will limit his potential. I see Jordan Poole with good defense, which is a very good player, but he's not an elite shooter and he doesn't have the athleticism of a Donovan Mitchell.

I'm not too concerned with him not jumping out of the gym. He's got really good height and length at the position and he finishes inside at an insane rate 70%. Next level will be harder but that's a good indicator already. He's got to knock down shots, that will open his game a lot