OT: Official Mets' 2024 Thread (p. 19)

[HarthorneWingo]

Whah da fck? Lose two in a row to the Cubbies?

Senga has to get those walks under control (pun intended).

And fck Marcus Stroman.

[blueNorange]

alvarez is so legit.

[HarthorneWingo]

alvarez is so legit.

He keeps getting better with each game. Plus, his defense so far has been outstanding, especially for a young catcher. He's excellent at framing and blocking. He has a cannon for an arm (despite the low throws to Alonso last night). He hustles all of the time. His teammate love him. Sky's the limit.

[Luv those Knicks]

Whah da fck? Lose two in a row to the Cubbies?

Senga has to get those walks under control (pun intended).

And fck Marcus Stroman.

Stroman left here with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and Mets didn't offer him much of a contract, so I kind of get it. I don't think he was celebrating against the players but the management that he didn't think offered him a fair contract.

[HarthorneWingo]

Whah da fck? Lose two in a row to the Cubbies?

Senga has to get those walks under control (pun intended).

And fck Marcus Stroman.

Stroman left here with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and Mets didn't offer him much of a contract, so I kind of get it. I don't think he was celebrating against the players but the management that he didn't think offered him a fair contract.

I thought that Marcus made the decision to leave though my memory is foggy about that. I do recall the animosity you speak of. He pitched a helluva game against us yesterday.

Cookie pitched well tonight. Good news.

[HarthorneWingo]

Whah da fck? Lose two in a row to the Cubbies?

Senga has to get those walks under control (pun intended).

And fck Marcus Stroman.

Stroman left here with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and Mets didn't offer him much of a contract, so I kind of get it. I don't think he was celebrating against the players but the management that he didn't think offered him a fair contract.

Wingo response 2.0

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[Luv those Knicks]

Stroman left here with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and Mets didn't offer him much of a contract, so I kind of get it. I don't think he was celebrating against the players but the management that he didn't think offered him a fair contract.

I thought that Marcus made the decision to leave though my memory is foggy about that. I do recall the animosity you speak of. He pitched a helluva game against us yesterday.

Cookie pitched well tonight. Good news.

It was a bit of both and it wasn't reported on much. It also happened pretty quickly, but primarily the Mets didn't express interest at the start of free agency and the Cubs did so he went to the interested party. Not unlike deGrom, though the Mets did express interest in deGrom, just on a 3 year deal. Texas offered 5 and that was that.

A couple things to remember and it's kind of hard to summarize 2 off seasons, so this will be a bit jumbled and probably TMI.

Cohen's first season with the Mets was 2021, and he had the off-season before that as he bought the team late 2020. The Wilpons weren't even going to sell to him as there were disagremeents on younger wilpon's involvement with the team, and both sides exchanged disagreement, Cohen said something nasty about the Wilpons and MLB was going to blackball Cohen until covid forced the Wilpons hand and they sold to Cohen on a re-negotiated deal without involvement and for less money - haha. Cohen got in october 2020, before free agency started, just beofre the winter meetings.

Wilpons acquired Stroman. Cohen offered him the qualifying offer - might have expected him to decline and adding a draft pick, but Stroman took the QO. 1 year 18.9 and a full free agent after 2021.

What else did Cohen do that off season?

Big trade for Lindor . . . and Lindor's been fine but he could have waited a year, not given up assets and bid on his SS of choice in the 2021 off-season, so even though it wasn't an overpay, it might not have been the best move.

He offered Conforto a 5 years 100 extension (not a free agent till a year later), Conforto & Boras declined

He lowballed George Springer (5 years 125) and Dom had a great small sample size in 2020, so I kind of understood the Springer lowball. The mets already had 3 Ofs with Nimmo, Conforto & Dom and JD Davis at DH, Springer has been good, not great. Better than Marte, worse than Nimmo, 5 years 150? That's hit or miss, but push comes to shove, Springer probably helps.

He overpaid for James McCann when everyone wanted Realmuto. Realmuto's been a stud. 11.4 war over the 2 1/3 seasons.

Signed Taijuan Walker for 2 years - a solid move.

We all know what happened in 2021. It was a bad year. Lindor struggled. McNeil was bad. Dom as bad. Conforto was meh. McCann was bad. Taijuan Walker had a great first half, lousy 2nd half. Carrasco got hurt, missed the first half, when he returned he was bad for the 2nd half. DeGrom missed the 2nd half.

The trade for Baez was costly though Baez was good . . . for 2 months, but we gave up a top prospect for him. DeGrom was on his way to another Cy Young season when he got hurt. The Mets were in first place most of the way, until August 5th, then the Braves overtook them and . . . just a bad season. Finished 77-85.

Stroman, who had taken the QO, was one of the few bright spots in 2021. 3.7 war, 3.7 war for a #2 starter, I'd sign up for that most of the time. 133 ERA+. Solid, not ace, but a good year. And now, after the QO, a full free agent.

But . . . 2021 sucked.

Going into 2022, DeGrom, Walker, Carrasco, and they had youngsters McGill & Peterson and one of their first moves was to sign Max Scherzer, so technically that's 4 starters and 2 youngsters with options but a few of those guys were coming off injuries, and 2 had options so they had room for Stroman, but they didn't aggressively pursue him and the Cubs did. The Mets later traded for Bassitt, so they clearly had space for another starter. This is what Stroman said at the time of signing with Chicago:

“I would love to be back on the squad next year,” Stroman wrote Friday in a since-deleted tweet. “I’ve proven that I can pitch in NY…others usually crumble under that New York pressure. However, I know a source who says the front office rather [go for] the other pitchers on the market. I’m going to dominate wherever I end up!”

So, the Cubs offered him 3-71 and he jumped on it. Even if it was only a few days into free agency, the Mets had the opportunity, and they didn't make an offer.

So . . . bad blood? Maybe not, but a fair bit of competitive spirit against a former team, and I really think Stroman's beef is more with management than the players.

and props to the Mets. After Stroman shut them down, they respond with 10 runs and 15 hits the next day, so. This is what sports is. It's supposed to be competitive and rivalries and all that.

- - -

Nobody, even the best GMs, are going to make the right moves all the time. I know a ton of fans who wanted Realmuto though and who felt that McCann was the wrong move and an overpay. Alvarez is taking some of the sting out of that, but many believed McCann was a mistake.

Springer signed through 2026 instead of Dom in 2021 and instead of Marte till 2025 would probably have been a better move. Not a home run, but better. That said, the mets being bad in 2021 enabled them to draft Kevin Parada, who might not have been around for a later draft pick, so that's something.

They love draft picks, so they were willing to let players turn down the QO and leave (Thor, Conforto, Bassitt, deGrom), though Conforto never signed a contract and Stroman was also offered the QO but he accepted. Nothing wrong with the add draft picks approach, but in hindsight, Bassitt looks like a steal for what the Jays signed him for (3 years 63).

Free agency is expensive, and these aren't easy decisions, so I don't want to trash them. I think Cohen learned something from the Lindor move. Sometimes it's better to wait and he learned something from the awful Baez trade because he wishes he still had Pete Crow Armstrong who's a top 30 prospect now.

And it looks like they dodged a bullet with Correa, who's so far been pretty bad for the Twins and he's on something like 6 years, 202 million dollars owed. Ouch.

Money doesn't fix everything. The Scherzer & Verlander deals are crazy pricy but at least they're short. I didn't hate either deal, but Stroman & Bassitt also signed 3 year deals and for considerably less. Nobody gets everything right, but it'll be interesting to watch Scherzer vs Stroman and Verlander vs Bassitt at the end of their respective 3 year deals and see who ends up better.

But back to Stroman, I don't think there's bad blood, but I think Stroman wasn't offered a contract and he's more than happy to show NY what they passed up on. . . . He also said there were racial taunts from the fans, which would have been after he signed with the cubs, and I don't know how prevalent that was. There's almost always going to be a few jerks in the stands, but, I don't think Stroman would make that up. I'm not sure what he expected Cohen to do about it though, I mean, it'd be one thing if it was caught on camera, then maybe.

But Stroman didn't bail on NY, NY didn't make an offer and the Cubs did. I have no problem with him. I wish him well in Chicago.

On a return to NY? I'm not eager to trade with the Cubs again. I'd rather do a Rich Hill type of addition. Someone cheap to eat innings. If the Cubs want to sell cheap, then, sure.

and . . . sorry. I type too much sometimes.

[HarthorneWingo]

LOL. Yeah. That's okay. You laid it all out.

I LOVE RICH HALL! But if we can't bring him back, I'd be down with a reunion with Marcus so long as it didn't cost us too much. He's been pitching lights out and we can't afford to rely on Megill and/or Peterson too much longer. Also, what happens if one of them goes down with an injury? We're screwed.

[Luv those Knicks]

LOL. Yeah. That's okay. You laid it all out.

I LOVE RICH HALL! But if we can't bring him back, I'd be down with a reunion with Marcus so long as it didn't cost us too much. He's been pitching lights out and we can't afford to rely on Megill and/or Peterson too much longer. Also, what happens if one of them goes down with an injury? We're screwed.

The cubs would ask for the Sun and the Moon. I also haven't forgiven them for stealing Pete Crow Armstrong from us. I know, I'm too bitter about traded prospects.

If the price was right, then yes, I'd trade for him.

And I had no idea Rich Hill was still pitching. He's got to be the oldest active player, I think. Respectable numbers.

[HarthorneWingo]

LOL. Yeah. That's okay. You laid it all out.

I LOVE RICH HALL! But if we can't bring him back, I'd be down with a reunion with Marcus so long as it didn't cost us too much. He's been pitching lights out and we can't afford to rely on Megill and/or Peterson too much longer. Also, what happens if one of them goes down with an injury? We're screwed.

The cubs would ask for the Sun and the Moon. I also haven't forgiven them for stealing Pete Crow Armstrong from us. I know, I'm too bitter about traded prospects.

If the price was right, then yes, I'd trade for him.

And I had no idea Rich Hill was still pitching. He's got to be the oldest active player, I think. Respectable numbers.

Hill is still pitching? Is that true? The man throws strikes and is cool as fck! Nothing fazes him.

So for Stroman, how about Megill, Nido, Pham or Canha, and Peterson? We'll overwhelm them!

[Luv those Knicks]

Hill is still pitching? Is that true? The man throws strikes and is cool as fck! Nothing fazes him.

So for Stroman, how about Megill, Nido, Pham or Canha, and Peterson? We'll overwhelm them!

LOL. Yeah, they'll jump on that one.

They'd ask for Parada, mets would say no, but what gets it done? At least 2 prospects (Mauricio/Ziegler? Jett Williams/Hamel?) I don't know. Cubs would ask for 2 of (Mauricio, Williams, Tidwell, Ramirez) . . . or Parada. Mets probably say no way.

Maybe the Cubs think they can be competitive in 2024 and they won't want to move him at all.

. . . We'll know more when the trade deadline trades start happening.

[HarthorneWingo]

Hill is still pitching? Is that true? The man throws strikes and is cool as fck! Nothing fazes him.

So for Stroman, how about Megill, Nido, Pham or Canha, and Peterson? We'll overwhelm them!

LOL. Yeah, they'll jump on that one.

They'd ask for Parada, mets would say no, but what gets it done? At least 2 prospects (Mauricio/Ziegler? Jett Williams/Hamel?) I don't know. Cubs would ask for 2 of (Mauricio, Williams, Tidwell, Ramirez) . . . or Parada. Mets probably say no way.

Maybe the Cubs think they can be competitive in 2024 and they won't want to move him at all.

. . . We'll know more when the trade deadline trades start happening.

Stroman's contract is over at the end of this season and he comes a FA. So the Cubs can't get too crazy unless they can create a big market for him. We got Zach Wheeler in return for a Carlos Beltran rental at the trade deadline. We are in win-now mode. I wouldn't be opposed to us signing Marcus long-term and right a wrong.

[Luv those Knicks]

Stroman's contract is over at the end of this season and he comes a FA. So the Cubs can't get too crazy unless they can create a big market for him. We got Zach Wheeler in return for a Carlos Beltran rental at the trade deadline. We are in win-now mode. I wouldn't be opposed to us signing Marcus long-term and right a wrong.

You're right. It was a 3 year contract but he's got a player option which he probably opts out of.

Verlander is struggling tonight. I want to believe in this team but they don't look like a good team a bit too often.

[HarthorneWingo]

Stroman's contract is over at the end of this season and he comes a FA. So the Cubs can't get too crazy unless they can create a big market for him. We got Zach Wheeler in return for a Carlos Beltran rental at the trade deadline. We are in win-now mode. I wouldn't be opposed to us signing Marcus long-term and right a wrong.

You're right. It was a 3 year contract but he's got a player option which he probably opts out of.

Verlander is struggling tonight. I want to believe in this team but they don't look like a good team a bit too often.

We have a lot of fight in us but we need some more talent. I'd like to see us add an extra BP piece (Aroldis Chapman?) or two and a starting pitcher (Stroman?).

How about Alvarez's moon shot HR last night? Wow. He's got 7 HRs now. How much longer can we afford to keep him in the 9 hole?

[HarthorneWingo]

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[HarthorneWingo]

I freaking hate playing In Denver, Colorado. What dumb place to play baseball . Except that this isn’t even baseball because the laws of physics don’t apply the same way as other normal cities.

[HarthorneWingo]

Aaron Nola, who is a free agent to be, could be available in. Trade if the Phillies sink much further in the standings.

[Luv those Knicks]

Given how much I love our young players (Baty, Alvarez, even Vientos and in time, maybe Mauricio), I'm very reluctant to give up a lot in trade. I'd rather add depth, cheaper players and play the long game, not the trade the future for the present approach.

[Luv those Knicks]

Nice 3 game series against Philly though.

[HarthorneWingo]

Given how much I love our young players (Baty, Alvarez, even Vientos and in time, maybe Mauricio), I'm very reluctant to give up a lot in trade. I'd rather add depth, cheaper players and play the long game, not the trade the future for the present approach.

Maybe there are other players in our minors that we can use in a trade?

Mauricio appears to be the most logical one to move in a deal for a pitcher. We really don't have room for him. And Vientos is now under The Mendoza Line.