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The Official 2023 Draft Thread

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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#941 » by mhd » Sat Jun 3, 2023 1:14 pm

Dat2U wrote:The fascination Wiz fans with jack-of-all-trade type wings who can't throw it in the ocean is insane. These types had their own grip on me in eatlier years but lessons were learned going all the way back to Jared Jeffries to MKG (lol) to the more current examples. The only non-shooter I'm considering is Amen because his athleticism is so other-worldly, even if it doesn't improve there may be a pathway to where he's impactful. Guys like Black, Cissoko and Rayan Rupert don't have that uber athleticism to lean on & provide examples of the past Wizards front office theory that shooting is the easiest thing to add - but it never is. However if a guy can't make shots by the time he's 19 to 21, its highly unlikely he adds the skill to become a good shooter later on.


Yeah, I’m tired of taking Johnny Davis non-skilled unathletic types. I’m hoping we end up with one of the twins, Whitmore, or Dick
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#942 » by NatP4 » Sat Jun 3, 2023 2:41 pm

Dat2U wrote:The fascination Wiz fans with jack-of-all-trade type wings who can't throw it in the ocean is insane. These types had their own grip on me in eatlier years but lessons were learned going all the way back to Jared Jeffries to MKG (lol) to the more current examples. The only non-shooter I'm considering is Amen because his athleticism is so other-worldly, even if it doesn't improve there may be a pathway to where he's impactful. Guys like Black, Cissoko and Rayan Rupert don't have that uber athleticism to lean on & provide examples of the past Wizards front office theory that shooting is the easiest thing to add - but it never is. However if a guy can't make shots by the time he's 19 to 21, its highly unlikely he adds the skill to become a good shooter later on.


Strong disagree. Cissoko was shooting from a NBA 3pt line and was 18 years old. He’s going to be a good shooter.

He shot a much better % than Scoot at a younger age.

A good portion of this board was also skeptical about Franz Wagner’s 3pt shooting and scoring ability.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#943 » by DCZards » Sat Jun 3, 2023 2:59 pm

I’d probably be very happy if a Thompson twin or Whitmore fell to the Zards. But I’m still on the Anthony Black train.

Black is skilled and smart on the offensive end with elite playmaking skills. He is also an above average defender with the ability to defend multiple positions with his great size for a PG.

Black may not be uber athletic (although he did have an impressive 39 inch vertical jump at the combine) but he’s a good athlete with a quick first step. One of the reasons that Black is so good at drawing fouls at the basket is because he has a quick first step and the smarts to know exactly when to use it.

Athleticism is sometimes overrated. When others here were insisting that Jalen Brunson didn’t have the athleticism or quickness to play in the NBA, I argued that he had the smarts and savvy to overcome his athletic shortcomings. (I don’t need to tell you good folks how that turned out.)

Shooting is no doubt a concern with Black. But given everything else he brings to the table drafting him at 8 with the hope that his shooting will improve is a risk worth taking, imo.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#944 » by joshuacf » Sat Jun 3, 2023 4:06 pm

My realistic-at-8 Big Board:

1. Amen Thompson. Bet on athleticism. Strong ball handling.
2. Anthony Black. Shot well at his pro day, sneaky bounce, great playmaking, 6'7 PG.
3. Cam Whitmore. Athletic scorer, has the chance to be a franchise centerpiece. We need to move Deni if we take him.
4. Ausur Thompson. Better shooter than his brother, but a slightly worse athlete and a noticeably worse ball handler. We need to move Deni if we take him.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#945 » by badinage » Sat Jun 3, 2023 5:33 pm

Public service announcement: Deni is a 4. He’s a 4. A 4.

He will be even better without Kuzma around. He will flourish as a 4.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming …
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#946 » by joshuacf » Sat Jun 3, 2023 5:55 pm

The modern NBA isn't 1,2,3,4,5 basketball. You need a lead guard, a center, and wings.

Moving Deni to the "4" isn't going to fix his 29.7% 3-point shooting, which has somehow regressed since he got in the league. It isn't going to improve his left hand.

The idea that changing the letters in front of Deni's name is going to be responsible for Deni making huge improvements is just not based in reality. I'm not saying he won't improve. But saying that he's being misused positionally and that's the reason for his struggles is untrue.

If we take Whitmore or Ausur, who are wings, we need to get them as much playing time as possible. If Deni being here cuts into Whitmore or Ausur's minutes, which it does, then we either shouldn't take them or we should trade Deni.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#947 » by prime1time » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:04 pm

badinage wrote:Public service announcement: Deni is a 4. He’s a 4. A 4.

He will be even better without Kuzma around. He will flourish as a 4.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming …

I would actually love to hear your basketball reasoning behind this. Why would Avdija flourish at the 4?
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#948 » by GoneShammGone » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:08 pm

So wiretap reports that OKC would like to move up. What do you think they would be willing to give us to swap the 8 with the 12?

They have the 35 and 37, but I think I would like something more. They have a ton of first round picks in the coming years that they need to start to consolidate, so maybe they would be willing to offer the Clipper's first for 2024? I would take that offer. But would they make it? Would a future first and the 12 allow them to get higher than 8?
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#949 » by GoneShammGone » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:13 pm

Another thought on the pick swap idea... after reading Kevin Broom's wrap-up on Deni's season, I'm starting to feel really pessimistic about his future with us. Maybe we can entice a team to help us reset the clock on him by trading him for a player on a rookie contract with more time remaining? And as incentive we offer a pick swap from 8.

Two players I would love to get out of this:
Jaylen Williams or Dyson Daniels.

So would OKC trade Williams for Deni and the 8/12 swap?
Would NO trade Dyson for Deni and the 8/14 swap?
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#950 » by tleikheen » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:41 pm

Why would Avdija flourish at the 4?


He rebounds the ball better than probably everyone on the Wizards and playing the 4 doesnt necessarily have to take the ball out of his hands to bring the ball up. His chance of sticking with the Wizards will be better playing the 4 than SF as he cant shoot.
But the big problem is the stand in the corners ,no player movement or ball movement in WUJs offense.Its ISO heavy with my turn ,your turn .
Seems like every year the last teams standing are teams who move the ball and have player movement. I cant remember the last good team that was a heavy ISO commited team.
I think the Washington offense will be better with KP at Center ,Avidja at PF, Kispert at SF, Beal at SG, Anthony Black ?????? PG. Even better if somehow they got Amen Thompson for PG ....... Lets hope the PG position is addressed this Draft.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#951 » by NatP4 » Sat Jun 3, 2023 6:52 pm

prime1time wrote:
badinage wrote:Public service announcement: Deni is a 4. He’s a 4. A 4.

He will be even better without Kuzma around. He will flourish as a 4.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming …

I would actually love to hear your basketball reasoning behind this. Why would Avdija flourish at the 4?


Because he has great basketball IQ and can switch and guard the perimeter.

The 4 position requires an understanding of defensive rotations and rim protection and rebounding. Deni can bring all of these things
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#952 » by joshuacf » Sat Jun 3, 2023 7:03 pm

NatP4 wrote:
prime1time wrote:
badinage wrote:Public service announcement: Deni is a 4. He’s a 4. A 4.

He will be even better without Kuzma around. He will flourish as a 4.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming …

I would actually love to hear your basketball reasoning behind this. Why would Avdija flourish at the 4?


Because he has great basketball IQ and can switch and guard the perimeter.

The 4 position requires an understanding of defensive rotations and rim protection and rebounding. Deni can bring all of these things


The NBA doesn't think about positions like this anymore. These skills should all be applicable whenever he's on the floor.

Also, I'm not hearing anything about his offensive game, which is his main problem.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#953 » by prime1time » Sat Jun 3, 2023 7:27 pm

I might be in the minority but I like Gradey Dick from Kansas. He's way better than Kispert was at the same age. He's such a great shooter that all he'll be working on for the next 3 or 4 years are countermoves.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#954 » by prime1time » Sat Jun 3, 2023 7:48 pm

tleikheen wrote:
Why would Avdija flourish at the 4?


He rebounds the ball better than probably everyone on the Wizards and playing the 4 doesnt necessarily have to take the ball out of his hands to bring the ball up. His chance of sticking with the Wizards will be better playing the 4 than SF as he cant shoot.
But the big problem is the stand in the corners ,no player movement or ball movement in WUJs offense.Its ISO heavy with my turn ,your turn .
Seems like every year the last teams standing are teams who move the ball and have player movement. I cant remember the last good team that was a heavy ISO commited team.
I think the Washington offense will be better with KP at Center ,Avidja at PF, Kispert at SF, Beal at SG, Anthony Black ?????? PG. Even better if somehow they got Amen Thompson for PG ....... Lets hope the PG position is addressed this Draft.

I don't want to turn the draft thread into a Deni Avijda thread, but needless to say I think the team needs to make a choice between Kuzma and Avdija. The argument that you make is a fair one, but it also doesn't follow that Avdija should be the cog to make the ball movement offense flow. Look at the teams in the finals. Yes they have good ball movement, but they also made sure to sign good three-point shooters. Denver specifically traded for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope because he could shoot the 3 better. Ball movement + 3-point shooting. Avdija's lack of 3-point shooting renders your whole argument questionable.

Defensively, Avdija is a good/great defender (would love to see him cut down his fouls) but the reality is that in 2023 teams seek out the weakest defenders on the floor. So the overall benefit of Avdjia's defense, though he is a good individual defender, is overstated.

C - Porzingis
PF - Avdija
SF - Kispert
SG - Beal
PG - ????

If Avdija is making 37%+ from 3 and shooting 5+ 3's a game is a solid team. Especially if we have a PG who can shoot. But the time is far too late to start looking at Avdija like he's some kind of blank canvas. He's played 3 seasons and his 3-point shooting last season was the worst of his career. In your post you mentioned Anthony Black. Black is also not a good 3-point shooter (30% from the college line is concerning). So that lineup with Black at the 1 and Avdija at the 4, would lack floor spacing. The ball movement that you hope to create would be negated by the fact that the defense could easily help off of the 1 and 4 positions. Any good defensive team would just basically make Avdija and Black beat them from deep.

More so, Avdija's contract is coming up. There is no shortage of players in either the draft or free agency that can do what Avdija brings to the table. Bad 3-point shooting, secondary playmaker, good rebounding and solid defense is a dime a dozen. So where does that leave us with an Avdija contract extension?
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#955 » by FAH1223 » Sat Jun 3, 2023 8:43 pm

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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#956 » by pcbothwel » Sat Jun 3, 2023 9:24 pm

GoneShammGone wrote:So wiretap reports that OKC would like to move up. What do you think they would be willing to give us to swap the 8 with the 12?

They have the 35 and 37, but I think I would like something more. They have a ton of first round picks in the coming years that they need to start to consolidate, so maybe they would be willing to offer the Clipper's first for 2024? I would take that offer. But would they make it? Would a future first and the 12 allow them to get higher than 8?


Man that’s tough. I love betting on more volume, but if we do that and watch Hendricks, black, Dick and Wallace all go 8-11 I would have a tough decision to make. To me that’s where the draft drops off. I go Hawkins or Cool Billy (my own nickname. Lol) I guess.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#957 » by FAH1223 » Sat Jun 3, 2023 9:40 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
GoneShammGone wrote:So wiretap reports that OKC would like to move up. What do you think they would be willing to give us to swap the 8 with the 12?

They have the 35 and 37, but I think I would like something more. They have a ton of first round picks in the coming years that they need to start to consolidate, so maybe they would be willing to offer the Clipper's first for 2024? I would take that offer. But would they make it? Would a future first and the 12 allow them to get higher than 8?


Man that’s tough. I love betting on more volume, but if we do that and watch Hendricks, black, Dick and Wallace all go 8-11 I would have a tough decision to make. To me that’s where the draft drops off. I go Hawkins or Cool Billy (my own nickname. Lol) I guess.


OKC is targeting Bilal Coulibaly.

Apparently Bilal has a guarantee to go in the lottery.

I actually wouldn't mind taking Bilal... he's 18, he's 6'7'' and he has great all around instincts at a young age playing in a man's league.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#958 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 3, 2023 9:50 pm

GoneShammGone wrote:So wiretap reports that OKC would like to move up. What do you think they would be willing to give us to swap the 8 with the 12?

They have the 35 and 37, but I think I would like something more. They have a ton of first round picks in the coming years that they need to start to consolidate, so maybe they would be willing to offer the Clipper's first for 2024? I would take that offer. But would they make it? Would a future first and the 12 allow them to get higher than 8?

They don't have the 35. & I doubt they'd offer a R1 pick next year to move up 4 spots from 12 to 8. That's too much to pay. I guess just maybe if it was in the late 20s....

OTOH, we wouldn't move down 4 slots just to get our #37 back (why do they have it, btw?).
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#959 » by tleikheen » Sun Jun 4, 2023 12:30 am

Locked on Magic crosstalking w/Magic UK mentioned they wouldnt mind a trade FOR EXAMPLE with the Wizards who are looking to move up in the draft a swap of their #6 and future considerations for Wiz #8 and Avidja who might just need a change of scenery .
Who might the Wiz take with the #6 pick ........Jarace Walker 6'8"/248#s who could immediately fill Avidja's spot.
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Re: The Official 2023 Draft Thread 

Post#960 » by NatP4 » Sun Jun 4, 2023 1:18 am

tleikheen wrote:Locked on Magic crosstalking w/Magic UK mentioned they wouldnt mind a trade FOR EXAMPLE with the Wizards who are looking to move up in the draft a swap of their #6 and future considerations for Wiz #8 and Avidja who might just need a change of scenery .
Who might the Wiz take with the #6 pick ........Jarace Walker 6'8"/248#s who could immediately fill Avidja's spot.


That would be absolutely horrible.

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