2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

[BK_2020]

Yam is soft if he's not willing to come over here and prove himself.

[Hal14]

So has everyone given up on Begarin and Madar? Madar had an excellent year with Partizan and in Euroleague, but apparently he would prefer to stay in Europe after observing Pritchard's predicament.

Don't blame him.

Yup, don't blame him. There's lots of guys playing overseas who are good enough to make an NBA roster, but they choose to stay overseas because they can get more playing time and make more $.

Salaries for NBA players is before taxes. Salaries for overseas players is after taxes. So if Madar gets $1 mil on a rookie minimum in the NBA, and he gets $1 mil in Europe, he's actually making more $ in Europe. Plus he's playing 20-25 mins a game, instead of riding the bench in the NBA.

[165bows]

I explained above the argument for taking Gueye over Clowney.

Now, how about the case for taking Gueye over Jackson-Davis? Jackson-Davis built more sturdy, and he is a little but more polished in terms of his face up game, putting the ball on the floor, making nifty passes, throwing down lobs. That's the case for TJD.

The case for Gueye, is that he's not too far behind TJD in terms of those skills that TJD is a little better at. And Gueye is 2 years and 9 months younger than TJD. That makes a BIG difference in terms of upside and future development. TJD will turn 24 during his rookie year, which means he is much further along in his development, is more of a finished product. Gueye will still only be 20 when his rookie year starts.

And in terms of face up game, while TJD is maybe a little better attacking off the dribble in space and in the open floor, how good his face up game can be is limited by the fact that he can't shoot. In the NBA, it'll be harder for TJD to attack dudes off the dribble, because they will just sag off him and dare him to shoot. Gueye on the other hand (as you can see in some of the vids I've posted), is really a triple threat when facing up - we see him put the ball on the floor and attack to get to the rim, we see him make some nice passes from the high post, mid post or elbows and we also see him knock down jumpers. Especially since he's still only 20 yrs old, he'll keep improving that jump shot to keep defenses honest - if they play up on him, he drives to the rim and dunks it. If they sag off him, he hits the jumper. And if there's an open cutter, he's got the vision and feel for the game to make that pass.

Lastly, Gueye's shooting range also extends out to 3. I'm not saying Gueye is an elite shooter or anything, But there's definitely potential there - he shot 35% from 3 over his last 20 games. Not crazy high volume but not insanely low either (a little more than 1 attempt per game). And again, since he's still only 20 yrs old, he can keep working on the 3 ball and get more comfortable taking them at higher volume. Which is a lot more than I can say about TJD - he literally attempted 0 threes all season. And in his 4 year college career, he only attempted 3 of them (missed all of them).

Funny thing is that I think TJD is a great compliment for Al. At least if he can be projected positively early on. He's the classic rim-finishing big man everyone wants to get that "versatile big man defender that can shoot" to pair with him. Good news is Boston has one of those for a little while at this point but who knows for how long.

Definitely like both guys and there isn't much playing time.

But the idea of a 4/5 that can emphatically attack the rim as a cutter/roll man or off the dribble while also passing, rebounding and blocking shots and not be terrible on D is a *great* potential fit with current Al. Not positive TJD can actually do all that (esp. the first year) but hypothetically he's a great compliment to Al and to a slightly lesser degree Gallo/Muscala/Grant.

My feeling is he probably goes to Indiana if they don't move up so def happy with Gueye as a backup plan, as you say seems like a classic upside guy that isn't also all projection.

Fair points. I just feel like:

-TJD obviously pairs very well with Al, but Al is gonna 37 next season. Al will probably see reduced minutes for the last 2 years of his contract. Who knows, maybe by the time TJD is actually ready contribute for a contender, it might not be till year 2 when Al will be 38 and REALLY seeing reduced mins or perhaps year 3 when Al will probably be retired

-TJD does not pair well with Rob. I doubt Mazzulla would ever play them at the same time.

-I think Gueye can potentially play alongside either Rob or Al

-Like you said, it would be hard for any big that we draft to get playing time right away - with Rob and Al under contract for 2 more years. Plus, Gallo, Muscala and Kornet all have player/team options for next season. And it's tough for a rookie to get playing time on a contender like the Celtics anyways.

So realistically, you're looking for a guy who will be ready in year 2 (or possibly even year 3) to contribute. If that's the case, wouldn't you rather take the guy who is 2 yrs and 9 months younger?

Right now, TJD is more NBA ready - but 2 or 3 yeas from now, Gueye has probably passed him at that point, especially since Gueye has more upside as a shooter, is much younger, is 2" taller, has 2" longer wingspan, has 2" better in terms of vertical leap and will fill out his frame more by then.

Yeah I don’t disagree with any of that. Just feel like the potential upside of unlocking the front court pairings next year could be more important than whatever one non-elite guy could evolve into years down the road.

[Curmudgeon]

So has everyone given up on Begarin and Madar? Madar had an excellent year with Partizan and in Euroleague, but apparently he would prefer to stay in Europe after observing Pritchard's predicament.

Don't blame him.

Yup, don't blame him. There's lots of guys playing overseas who are good enough to make an NBA roster, but they choose to stay overseas because they can get more playing time and make more $.

Salaries for NBA players is before taxes. Salaries for overseas players is after taxes. So if Madar gets $1 mil on a rookie minimum in the NBA, and he gets $1 mil in Europe, he's actually making more $ in Europe. Plus he's playing 20-25 mins a game, instead of riding the bench in the NBA.

And he gets a free apartment and car and plays fewer games.

[Hal14]

Some wings I like as potential UDFA:

-Ben Sheppard
-Seth Lundy
-Ricky Council IV

These 3 guys all looked good in the combine scrimmages.

Chris Livingston and Julian Phillips are a couple other wings - they didn't play in the combine scrimmages but could also be good UDFA fliers.

You grab 1 of them as UDFA. You grab a big man like Gueye or TJD with pick 35 (or possibly Nnaji is he falls that far). You're good to go.

[BostonCouchGM]

this being a weak draft class might work in our favor because while it's shallow with high-end talent, it does have end of bench role players and that just so happens to be what our needs will be should we start losing some of our guys. There's a slew of 22-23 y/o guys with high floors/low ceilings that can step right into roles and help us out in case of injuries and just improve our overall depth.

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

[big-shot-ROB]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

Might be for a reason. Frank Kaminsky was picked in the lottery and you see how everything worked out. How do you think it's going to go for a guy that is universally not considered even a 2nd round pick?

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

Might be for a reason. Frank Kaminsky was picked in the lottery and you see how everything worked out. How do you think it's going to go for a guy that is universally not considered even a 2nd round pick?

There is a big difference between going in the lottery vs going mid 2nd round. Most mock drafts don't even have Timme in the 2nd round. Someone will grab him in the 2nd round or take a low risk on him if he goes undrafted.

[Celts17Pride]

Is there a non-lottery player in this draft better than Juhan Begarin?

Considering Begarin can’t shoot the ball probably about 40-45 players

[Celts17Pride]

Andre Jackson it’s a perfect fit for this team.

High IQ player

Didn’t you just contradict yourself?

[Celts17Pride]

Brad knows Grant Williams is out the door - drafts TJD.

Otherwise Vukcevic is the guy with their name all over him. You could again hear Brad note how hard it is to get guys playing time.

Perfect play style for the team and perfect timing (ie overseas).

Kobe Brown is another guy I like as a Grant Williams replacement

[playa-hater]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

He's probably like so many of those undrafted players whose measurables. Don't pan out well at the combine and yet ends up playing in the n b a because of all the things you cannot measure.. I particularly think feel of the game is almost never talked about and he has great feel of the game

[Hal14]

One other note on Mo Gueye. Not only is he just 20 yrs old still, but he just started playing organized basketball 3 years ago. So we're basically getting a 18/19 yr old dude - who was one of the top bigs in college basketball - was the best player on his team, the #1 option on a good college team that made the NIT tournament - who's 6'11", an impressive skill set, good versatility on both ends of the floor and good mobility.

Get him in here, let him learn from Al and Rob - go against them in practice. 2 years from now, he'll be a BEAST.

[CelticsPride18]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

He's probably like so many of those undrafted players whose measurables. Don't pan out well at the combine and yet ends up playing in the n b a because of all the things you cannot measure.. I particularly think feel of the game is almost never talked about and he has great feel of the game

He’s an undersized low post center with no hops, he’s isn’t a shooter either and will get wrecked on defense. Great college player but not an NBA player. Luka Garza was more talented and he sucks in the NBA

[CelticsPride18]

One other note on Mo Gueye. Not only is he just 20 yrs old still, but he didn't even start playing organized basketball till he was 16. So we're basically getting a 18/19 yr old dude - who was one of the top bigs in college basketball - was the best player on his team, the #1 option on a good college team that made the NIT tournament - who's 6'11", an impressive skill set, good versatility on both ends of the floor and good mobility.

Get him in here, let him learn from Al and Rob - go against them in practice. 2 years from now, he'll be a BEAST.

I don’t see it with this kid. He looks like a poor’s man Drummond

[playa-hater]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

He's probably like so many of those undrafted players whose measurables. Don't pan out well at the combine and yet ends up playing in the n b a because of all the things you cannot measure.. I particularly think feel of the game is almost never talked about and he has great feel of the game

He’s an undersized low post center with no hops, he’s isn’t a shooter either and will get wrecked on defense. Great college player but not an NBA player. Luka Garza was more talented and he sucks in the NBA

All of this may end up true.. But other than the height difference, Jokic had similar negativities said about him at draft time. No jump shot, too slow, can't jump.. and he ends up with Mutiple MVPs and may be top player in the world right now. Point is Drew still may show more than what people expect and end up surprising one day..

[return2glory]

Watch on YouTube

No one is talking about Drew. He is really skilled but areas of improvement are defense, 3 point shooting and he needs to get a little stronger. Mock drafts are showing no love but someone is going to pick him.

He's probably like so many of those undrafted players whose measurables. Don't pan out well at the combine and yet ends up playing in the n b a because of all the things you cannot measure.. I particularly think feel of the game is almost never talked about and he has great feel of the game

He’s an undersized low post center with no hops, he’s isn’t a shooter either and will get wrecked on defense. Great college player but not an NBA player. Luka Garza was more talented and he sucks in the NBA

He is 6'9 1/2, 6'10, so he isn't undersized. He doesn't have hops, but he has greet footwork and can score with either hand.

The defense is the main concern. While he isn't a shooter, he will develop a 3 point shot. Garza wasn't more talented than Timme. Garca had better numbers, but Timme has a better all around game, including being a better passer. Timme also shot 62% shooter from the field, Garza shot a respectable 55% in his college career but wasn't at Drew's level. Garza was the much better outside shooter. Agree on Garza sucking in the NBA.

[return2glory]

So has everyone given up on Begarin and Madar? Madar had an excellent year with Partizan and in Euroleague, but apparently he would prefer to stay in Europe after observing Pritchard's predicament.

Pritchard is better than Madar. Madar won't get any playing time as long as we have a really good group of guards like Smart, White and Brogdon. That's why Pritchard hardly played.

Haven't followed Begarin that much, but from what I've heard is that his 3 point shooting isn't getting any better, it's getting worse. Until that part of his game improves, he has no shot being anything more than a 14th or 15th man. But his defensive potential is there.

[CelticsPride18]

He's probably like so many of those undrafted players whose measurables. Don't pan out well at the combine and yet ends up playing in the n b a because of all the things you cannot measure.. I particularly think feel of the game is almost never talked about and he has great feel of the game

He’s an undersized low post center with no hops, he’s isn’t a shooter either and will get wrecked on defense. Great college player but not an NBA player. Luka Garza was more talented and he sucks in the NBA

He is 6'9 1/2, 6'10, so he isn't undersized. He doesn't have hops, but he has greet footwork and can score with either hand.

The defense is the main concern. While he isn't a shooter, he will develop a 3 point shot. Garza wasn't more talented than Timme. Garca had better numbers, but Timme has a better all around game, including being a better passer. Timme also shot 62% shooter from the field, Garza shot a respectable 55% in his college career but wasn't at Drew's level. Garza was the much better outside shooter. Agree on Garza sucking in the NBA.

A 6’9 low post center doesn’t have a shot in the NBA. He was fun to watch in college, but he’s likely going to be an excellent player overseas