2023 NBA Draft Thread 4

[JBSouthpaw]

7. Gradey Dick is actually, probably, almost certainly, the right pick at 6. The puns are going to kill me when we end up taking him

He is obviously a perfect fit. The only thing is isn't is "upside" int path his game is what it is already. i.e. He can already ball.


..

agree on fit.
Just because his shooting is further along than his athleticism, doesn't mean he can't drastically improve.
Another "not super athletic" SG picked 6th? Buddy Hield. He's managed to shoot over 40% on 7 attempts a game for his career.
I think Graddy is a bit more athletic than Buddy, so a better version.
Also, Buddy's backcourt mate in INDY? ever read his pre-draft write up (a 12th pick)?
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-haliburton/ - "Though quick and shifty, doesnt possess explosive leaping ability and is mostly a below the rim player …"

to me, from day 1 (even off the bench) Graddy can help this team with his shooting, and mere presence alone should open the inside for PB & WCJ plus driving lanes for Franz and our other guards.

[MAGICian619]

The only 2 I can't seem to get behind in the in the top 11 range are:

Jarace Walker
Cason Wallace

I am really excited about possibly getting two of pretty much anyone else in that range.

[basketballRob]

The only 2 I can't seem to get behind in the in the top 11 range are:

Jarace Walker
Cason Wallace

I am really excited about possibly getting two of pretty much anyone else in that range.

The rumor is that Wallace has a promise from Washington.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

Some thoughts that are bothering me:
1. I don't think we are going to find a better guard prospect than we already have in Jalen Suggs.
2. While Keyonte measures very nicely in comparison to Anthony Edwards he doesn't have near the athleticism.
3. Cason Wallace and Anthony Black are better prospects than Cole Anthony was but worse than Markelle Fultz was, i.e., they don't have star power
4. Jordan Hawkins and Kobe Bufkin had terrible freshman seasons
5. Jalen Hood-Schifinio had a very pedestrian freshman season
6. Cam Whitmore had a slightly worse freshman year than Franz Wagner did
7. Gradey Dick is actually, probably, almost certainly, the right pick at 6. The puns are going to kill me when we end up taking him
8. Why can't the Thompsons shoot?
9. Too bad Miller has off-court baggage, he has some slight star potential out of the college guys

Dude, GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! I am supposed to live there rent free.

Another big one is around blake lively. There are so few centers in this draft I feel like a team is going to reach for him, and he becomes a bust with the common BPA after him doing well.

As far as whether or not we will find a better prospect then Suggs. That depends on how you rate him. I at this second do not see Suggs making any additional leap whatsoever that isn't more around his current strengths being refined. Think a worse shooting better defending G Harris at his peak.

As far as Fultz goes. There was his "hype" and what "happened". Fultz is in of itself, not worth a no 1 pick today and may never have been hindsight being 20/20. Id' like to think there is a better version of "the Fultz we have at home" then the "projected fultz".

Not trying to turn this into a Fultz thread.

Lively huh?

[KillMonger]

7. Gradey Dick is actually, probably, almost certainly, the right pick at 6. The puns are going to kill me when we end up taking him

He is obviously a perfect fit. The only thing is isn't is "upside" int path his game is what it is already. i.e. He can already ball.


..

agree on fit.
Just because his shooting is further along than his athleticism, doesn't mean he can't drastically improve.
Another "not super athletic" SG picked 6th? Buddy Hield. He's managed to shoot over 40% on 7 attempts a game for his career.
I think Graddy is a bit more athletic than Buddy, so a better version.
Also, Buddy's backcourt mate in INDY? ever read his pre-draft write up (a 12th pick)?
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-haliburton/ - "Though quick and shifty, doesnt possess explosive leaping ability and is mostly a below the rim player …"

to me, from day 1 (even off the bench) Graddy can help this team with his shooting, and mere presence alone should open the inside for PB & WCJ plus driving lanes for Franz and our other guards.

watch some film and you're going to see a big difference in the playstyle between college buddy and gradey.....buddy didn't have too many issues creating separation and in iso situations...i would say he was more of a scorer than a specialist which gradey is....but you're right from day 1 he can play the gary harris role extremely well, just stand in a spot and wait for a kickout

[Skybox]

7. Gradey Dick is actually, probably, almost certainly, the right pick at 6. The puns are going to kill me when we end up taking him

He is obviously a perfect fit. The only thing is isn't is "upside" int path his game is what it is already. i.e. He can already ball.


..

upside is not the only thing...he's just a 3pt specialist....he's a cory kispert or a reggie bullock....gradey had a lot of trouble creating separation....has a limited bag offensively, heard he only had 2 isolations the entire year.....no wiggle to his game....no sauce....not a good finisher at the rim if it isn't a dunk....not a particularly good playmaker, can make the obvious read though....tries on defense but isn't very good and will be hunted on that end of the floor...not as good as a MOVEMENT shooter as you would think....but he CAN stand in a spot and shoot very well.....perfect fit....i would understand if he was putting up buddy heild numbers in college but....then again maybe that's just how i see it, the whole jabari smith fiasco last year made me learn a lesson about players where their only nba translatable skill is just shooting....but at least smith had elite size and plays defense.....gradey has neither of those though.......perfect fit

Assuming we grab that shooter we so desperately need with one of our picks (vs trade/FA...)...
I'm thinking Hawkins vs Dick is not a clear decision. Just for arguments sake, I'd rather (for this team) have Rip Hamilton than Kyle Korver.
- I like that Hawkins is smaller but still a good sized 2 - so his defensive agility is likely to be better. Dick may be the better "pure" shooter, but can he really play the 2 spot defensively? Some have mentioned that he's deceptively athletic, but I don't see it. The reality of the league is that a guy running off picks, constantly in motion, with the ability to stop on a dime and pull up for 3 is more useful than a stationary shooter (both are good but the mover is more disruptive to defensive schemes).
-IF Dick is really that much more advanced in his shooting form, release, etc than take the guy who could be an All-timer, but, IMO, Hawkins looks like a better fit.
-IF Dick is a defensive liability or "misfit" in our starting lineup, maybe just go get Buddy Hield for peanuts and draft for upside (Bilaly?)
We've got the cap space and extra picks to work with. Maybe IND gambles on Isaac for Buddy? Now we've got two picks to swing for the fences on a Thompson, Whitmore, Hendricks type without needing to plug them right in. I'd still like Hawkins or Dick, but wouldn't be as desperate. Higher in price and upside would be Simons...IF we could get him for a future first and cap space, we could still swing away with picks, knowing we WILL be significantly better from the perimeter.

[eyriq]

I've talked myself into Gradey, quirky personality and all. If Ausar, Amen, Scoot, and Miller are off the board I'm going Gradey.

I apologize for my Miller slander btw, I shouldn't let the off court stuff have this much weight without more tangible evidence.

Anyway, who y'all got for a lottery mock? Give me your lottery mocks people!!! We are getting close.

[Residual-Heat]

Pepe peping, now he is a French League expert

Please stop

Agreed.
He is

Bro i live in middle of f*** Europe so who knows more about Europien baketball? Somebody who heared about french league month ago or somebody who follows Euro basketball for 20 years? I assume you right?

Cedric made 14 000 posts and majority of them are "Ur wrung g' magic" . Guy has one of the worst +1 to post ratios on this forum because he can't elaborate nor articulate his own opinion to save his life.

If you have something to argue against me- argue with facts and arguments not with whatever you think you are doing ( tbh 99% of time you just spam youtube videos like nobody else can use youtube and write : "XY highlight video" )

You two are now head over heels about player you never seen single full basketball game in your lifes, because some twitter head told you he has " Jimmy Butler/ OG written all over him" and that he "outscored Wemby in one game" .

I can help you if you actually want to WATCH him play. in 4 days, you can catch stream on Spotklub ( Croatian/serbian tv channel, you know, place i'm from ) and they will have game 1 finals. Or i can provide stream of that game in inbox if you need.

You will be very shocked once you learn your favorite flavor of a month is 6'6 but apsolutley never puts ball on the floor nor tries to attack off dribble, yet those internet wannabe "scouts" are trying to sell you as "shooting guard" and than just smam you with percentages instad of volumen of his actual shots. Guy makes 0,5 threes a game as "shooter", in league where 3 point line stands at 20,5 feet. But who needs facts when guy on twitter wrote he is great? Who needs critical thinking? Who needs own head to make own opinons when twitter can provide one for you?

btw pss don't let Evan haters, hear you, but in league where Culibaliy averages 5 ppg, Evan averaged 14

i was able to watch the last game on NBA.com they were streaming it for free.

[Petre1978]

I've talked myself into Gradey, quirky personality and all. If Ausar, Amen, Scoot, and Miller are off the board I'm going Gradey.

I apologize for my Miller slander btw, I shouldn't let the off court stuff have this much weight without more tangible evidence.

Anyway, who y'all got for a lottery mock? Give me your lottery mocks people!!! We are getting close.

The Magic will draft a PG and a SG.
Anthony and Fultz have just one year left.

Suggs is not a PG.

[JoshuaPotter]

Some thoughts that are bothering me:
1. I don't think we are going to find a better guard prospect than we already have in Jalen Suggs.
2. While Keyonte measures very nicely in comparison to Anthony Edwards he doesn't have near the athleticism.
3. Cason Wallace and Anthony Black are better prospects than Cole Anthony was but worse than Markelle Fultz was, i.e., they don't have star power
4. Jordan Hawkins and Kobe Bufkin had terrible freshman seasons
5. Jalen Hood-Schifinio had a very pedestrian freshman season
6. Cam Whitmore had a slightly worse freshman year than Franz Wagner did
7. Gradey Dick is actually, probably, almost certainly, the right pick at 6. The puns are going to kill me when we end up taking him
8. Why can't the Thompsons shoot?
9. Too bad Miller has off-court baggage, he has some slight star potential out of the college guys

Dude, GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! I am supposed to live there rent free.

Another big one is around blake lively. There are so few centers in this draft I feel like a team is going to reach for him, and he becomes a bust with the common BPA after him doing well.

As far as whether or not we will find a better prospect then Suggs. That depends on how you rate him. I at this second do not see Suggs making any additional leap whatsoever that isn't more around his current strengths being refined. Think a worse shooting better defending G Harris at his peak.

As far as Fultz goes. There was his "hype" and what "happened". Fultz is in of itself, not worth a no 1 pick today and may never have been hindsight being 20/20. Id' like to think there is a better version of "the Fultz we have at home" then the "projected fultz".

Not trying to turn this into a Fultz thread.

Lively huh?

Whoops! Derrick Lively!

You dawg

[Skybox]

I've talked myself into Gradey, quirky personality and all. If Ausar, Amen, Scoot, and Miller are off the board I'm going Gradey.

I apologize for my Miller slander btw, I shouldn't let the off court stuff have this much weight without more tangible evidence.

Anyway, who y'all got for a lottery mock? Give me your lottery mocks people!!! We are getting close.

The Magic will draft a PG and a SG.
Anthony and Fultz have just one year left.

Suggs is not a PG.

Which PG is worthy of our pick slot? Wallace is the only one I see and there are questions about whether he's able to run an offense.

I'm intrigued by the combo guard PG's like JHS, Nick Smith, Podzmieski, Bufkin...would they be in your sights as potential starting PGs?

[SOUL]

I'm liking Hawkins a lot lately at 11. That shot is pure. Also like the way he runs off screens and feel like with NBA spacing, while not "easier" to get open, people know how to use their bodies better and crate that space with more weapons than NCAA teams.

I'm fine with many options there, but him and Dick seem to be the ones I like there the most right now, assuming we're keeping both.

I wouldn't mind a combination of Walker/Whitmore/Hendricks with Dick or Hawkins at 11.

I'm not sure how to feel about Ausar yet and I'm not sure about the archetype fitting Weltham. I think Kuminga was in a similar position last year and we picked Franz.

[SOUL]

I still think drafting a PG is wasting a pick. Go after a FA or package for a trade for a veteran who can contribute to wins if we're done with Fultz (which remains to be seen).. not into banking on 8th-14th pick guys who nobody can form real concrete opinions on and won't get much in-game reps until next season regardless of the direction. You can obviously luck up and get an SGA type that was overlooked, but there's a lot of question marks with some of these current names.

[Petre1978]

I've talked myself into Gradey, quirky personality and all. If Ausar, Amen, Scoot, and Miller are off the board I'm going Gradey.

I apologize for my Miller slander btw, I shouldn't let the off court stuff have this much weight without more tangible evidence.

Anyway, who y'all got for a lottery mock? Give me your lottery mocks people!!! We are getting close.

The Magic will draft a PG and a SG.
Anthony and Fultz have just one year left.

Suggs is not a PG.

Which PG is worthy of our pick slot? Wallace is the only one I see and there are questions about whether he's able to run an offense.

I'm intrigued by the combo guard PG's like JHS, Nick Smith, Podzmieski, Bufkin...would they be in your sights as potential starting PGs?

I would take Wallace and JHS or Bufkin.
I like JHS more and more.

[Petre1978]

I'm liking Hawkins a lot lately at 11. That shot is pure. Also like the way he runs off screens and feel like with NBA spacing, while not "easier" to get open, people know how to use their bodies better and crate that space with more weapons than NCAA teams.

I'm fine with many options there, but him and Dick seem to be the ones I like there the most right now, assuming we're keeping both.

I wouldn't mind a combination of Walker/Whitmore/Hendricks with Dick or Hawkins at 11.

I'm not sure how to feel about Ausar yet and I'm not sure about the archetype fitting Weltham. I think Kuminga was in a similar position last year and we picked Franz.

I could see the Fo picking Black and Hawkins

[eyriq]

I still think drafting a PG is wasting a pick. Go after a FA or package for a trade for a veteran who can contribute to wins if we're done with Fultz (which remains to be seen).. not into banking on 8th-14th pick guys who nobody can form real concrete opinions on and won't get much in-game reps until next season regardless of the direction. You can obviously luck up and get an SGA type that was overlooked, but there's a lot of question marks with some of these current names.

I like this thought process. If you can't get Scoot I really wonder what's the point of drafting a PG that projects at best as a quality starter? The ramp up time tends to be really long for PGs.

This is where someone like Keyonte or Ausar are actually really interesting. They have lead guard upside but their core skills are elsewhere.

[jonbob17]

I smell trading 6 for 12 and OKC's package of future 1sts, grabbing Bilal and best shooter available, and using the picks from OKC and our own future firsts for the next disgruntled young superstar.

Honestly, after watching some of the Wemby/Bilal gameplay from the playoffs, I can't imagine our front office passing up a foreign hyped stretch armstrong.

I am not sure how I feel about Bilal, but as for the trade, that seems like one that might actually make some sense, and could actually happen. His shooting scares me as much as Amen.

I am pretty scared of all the guy at 6. Feel teams are conditioned to draft upside that high. Too many shooting risks with the guys at 6. Whitmore is what he is, not sure how he fits with his lack of connectivity.

If we could get Wallace or Gradey and Bilal...that's a pretty good combo, and if we get an extra future first, maybe a little more...I agree that future first plus the Denver, and all of our own, should set us up for upgrading a starter down the road.

Pretty good suggestion, OKC has to do something with their picks, we may as well pick one up, and add it to our warchest.

[JBSouthpaw]

He is obviously a perfect fit. The only thing is isn't is "upside" int path his game is what it is already. i.e. He can already ball.


..

agree on fit.
Just because his shooting is further along than his athleticism, doesn't mean he can't drastically improve.
Another "not super athletic" SG picked 6th? Buddy Hield. He's managed to shoot over 40% on 7 attempts a game for his career.
I think Graddy is a bit more athletic than Buddy, so a better version.
Also, Buddy's backcourt mate in INDY? ever read his pre-draft write up (a 12th pick)?
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyrese-haliburton/ - "Though quick and shifty, doesnt possess explosive leaping ability and is mostly a below the rim player …"

to me, from day 1 (even off the bench) Graddy can help this team with his shooting, and mere presence alone should open the inside for PB & WCJ plus driving lanes for Franz and our other guards.

watch some film and you're going to see a big difference in the playstyle between college buddy and gradey.....buddy didn't have too many issues creating separation and in iso situations...i would say he was more of a scorer than a specialist which gradey is....but you're right from day 1 he can play the gary harris role extremely well, just stand in a spot and wait for a kickout

Freshman Buddy? or senior Buddy? I think he was drafted at 24 y.o?

[Magic_Kingdom]

It's funny how much "elite athleticism" is overvalued this time of year. Every June we suffer collective amnesia and forget that the best players in the game have a particular set of skills, and many are not elite athletes with explosive leaping ability etc. etc.

Nikola Jokic
Steph Curry
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Tyrese Haliburton
Domantas Sabonis

Here's a portion of Jonathan Givony's 2016 scouting report of Jamal Murray coming out of college:

"He has an average combination of height, length, frame and athleticism for a guard prospect, not being particularly impressive in terms of his quickness or vertical explosiveness either."

Givony did rate Murray highly on shooting stroke, ability to get off screens, balance on his shot, ability to create space, etc.

I just think we overrate guys like Ausar Thompson, thinking they'll become something they're not simply based on athletic ability, and then we're surprised when they bust.

Draft skill. If you miss you miss, but don't miss on another brick-layer with massive wingspan.

[KillMonger]

It's funny how much "elite athleticism" is overvalued this time of year. Every June we suffer collective amnesia and forget that the best players in the game have a particular set of skills, and many are not elite athletes with explosive leaping ability etc. etc.

Nikola Jokic
Steph Curry
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Tyrese Haliburton
Domantas Sabonis

Here's a portion of Jonathan Givony's 2016 scouting report of Jamal Murray coming out of college:

"He has an average combination of height, length, frame and athleticism for a guard prospect, not being particularly impressive in terms of his quickness or vertical explosiveness either."

Givony did rate Murray highly on shooting stroke, ability to get off screens, balance on his shot, ability to create space, etc.

I just think we overrate guys like Ausar Thompson, thinking they'll become something they're not simply based on athletic ability, and then we're surprised when they bust.

Draft skill. If you miss you miss, but don't miss on another brick-layer with massive wingspan.

then i guess it's a good thing ausar isn't just an athlete then