ImageImageImageImageImage

Early discussion on the 2023 offseason

Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,031
And1: 11,974
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#721 » by Paradise » Wed Jun 7, 2023 11:50 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:Bridges is the model of consistency, Cam J is definitely not that. Paying 25M plus to a player is for legit starting players that are consistent and provides something even without shooting or scoring, not fringe level starters.

Cam J doesn't provide anything else but good shooting on good size. He does not defend well, guys just attack him off the dribble and either scores or gets a foul call. He doesn't rebound well at all for his size, he's too skinny to fight for boards. And he doesn't attack well enough off the dribble, score off the dribble or pass well enough. He's pretty much just a spot up shooter that can make an occasional back door cut and make a pull up jumpshot here or there.

Bridges has a few go to moves he can go to to get his shot off, Cam J does not. Once he gets the ball he just passes it right away, which I'm not mad about but that proves he can't do anything off the dribble. He's pretty much a taller Joe Harris if you ask me. I'm not trying to make it seem like he sucks but I don't see him as a future winning type of player. And us having like 3 players like him is kind of redundant to have him here. We can find a player like him for alot cheaper. Other teams will value him alot more just for his size and shooting and we can capitalize off that.

I don’t see the point in comparing him to Bridges, they are on entirely different levels as players.

And again you just saying he’s inconsistent is anecdotal and basically just untrue.

The game logs do not lie.

He put up his best numbers in BK because he had too, he became the 2nd option which means more shots, mins and opportunities. Him and Bridges being entirely different level as players is my point, Bridges is 2 times better than him and basically plays the same positions, almost the same size, almost the same age, and Bridges is on a much better contract then what CamJ is about to get. This my whole point we don't need 2 of the exact same type of players when Bridges is vastly better than him, it's redundant.

Idk how you can say him being inconsistent isn't true as if I'm lying. Those exact game logs your talking about proves this, with the exception of the playoffs (small sample size) and the last few games of the year. Just look at the April games, he has 2 30 pt games, 3 20 pt games mixed in with with like 5 games of him scoring 10 pts or less (single digits). That's not the type of player you pay 25M plus for unless they're bringing in something else like great defending, passing, rebounding etc.. which Cam J does not.

Cam is a four, not a three.
Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,031
And1: 11,974
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#722 » by Paradise » Wed Jun 7, 2023 11:56 pm

Iggy hinting at something

Read on Twitter
Tha King
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,760
And1: 933
Joined: Apr 11, 2007
 

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#723 » by Tha King » Thu Jun 8, 2023 12:02 am

What does Cam Johnson do at a good/starter level beyond C&S?

Rebound? Playmake? Score? Defend? If he isn't making (assisted) jumpers, what does he give the team? You start to really ask this when he's not on a rookie scale but 20+.
Papi_swav
General Manager
Posts: 9,301
And1: 4,880
Joined: Jan 03, 2016
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#724 » by Papi_swav » Thu Jun 8, 2023 12:04 am

Tha King wrote:What does Cam Johnson do at a good/starter level beyond C&S?

Rebound? Playmake? Score? Defend? If he isn't making (assisted) jumpers, what does he give the team? You start to really ask this when he's not on a rookie scale but 20+.

exactly what I'm saying. He's pretty much a bigger Joe Harris atp
Papi_swav
General Manager
Posts: 9,301
And1: 4,880
Joined: Jan 03, 2016
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#725 » by Papi_swav » Thu Jun 8, 2023 12:05 am

Paradise wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:I don’t see the point in comparing him to Bridges, they are on entirely different levels as players.

And again you just saying he’s inconsistent is anecdotal and basically just untrue.

The game logs do not lie.

He put up his best numbers in BK because he had too, he became the 2nd option which means more shots, mins and opportunities. Him and Bridges being entirely different level as players is my point, Bridges is 2 times better than him and basically plays the same positions, almost the same size, almost the same age, and Bridges is on a much better contract then what CamJ is about to get. This my whole point we don't need 2 of the exact same type of players when Bridges is vastly better than him, it's redundant.

Idk how you can say him being inconsistent isn't true as if I'm lying. Those exact game logs your talking about proves this, with the exception of the playoffs (small sample size) and the last few games of the year. Just look at the April games, he has 2 30 pt games, 3 20 pt games mixed in with with like 5 games of him scoring 10 pts or less (single digits). That's not the type of player you pay 25M plus for unless they're bringing in something else like great defending, passing, rebounding etc.. which Cam J does not.

Cam is a four, not a three.

barely
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 15,818
And1: 2,535
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#726 » by CalamityX12 » Thu Jun 8, 2023 12:16 am

Paradise wrote:Iggy hinting at something

Read on Twitter

What this
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 15,818
And1: 2,535
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#727 » by CalamityX12 » Thu Jun 8, 2023 12:35 am

You know, i recognize CP3 as a playoff choker and he's on his last injured legs

But he can still direct an offense so I'm ok to sign him at the right price lol

F it
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
User avatar
Netaman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,272
And1: 1,323
Joined: Jun 04, 2004

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#728 » by Netaman » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:39 am

interesting trade proposal from the t&t board - fournier is expiring so i'd do that in a nanosecond, would be great to get a likely lotto pick next year for DFS:

Brooklyn in: Evan Fournier and POR 2024 1st (protected 1-4 through 2028)
Brooklyn out: Dorian Finney Smith, Patty Mills, 2023 2nd round pick (#51)

Chicago in: Dorian Finney-Smith and Isaiah Hartenstein
Chicago out: Nikola Vucevic (sign and trade at 16-18 per year for 3 years), Dalen Terry, and POR 2024 1st

New York in: Nikola Vucevic, Dalen Terry, Patty Mills, and BRK 2023 2nd round pick (#51)
New York out: Isaiah Hartenstein and Evan Fournier
CalamityX12
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 15,818
And1: 2,535
Joined: Mar 15, 2012
         

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#729 » by CalamityX12 » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:44 am

Netaman wrote:interesting trade proposal from the t&t board - fournier is expiring so i'd do that in a nanosecond, would be great to get a likely lotto pick next year for DFS:

Brooklyn in: Evan Fournier and POR 2024 1st (protected 1-4 through 2028)
Brooklyn out: Dorian Finney Smith, Patty Mills, 2023 2nd round pick (#51)

Chicago in: Dorian Finney-Smith and Isaiah Hartenstein
Chicago out: Nikola Vucevic (sign and trade at 16-18 per year for 3 years), Dalen Terry, and POR 2024 1st

New York in: Nikola Vucevic, Dalen Terry, Patty Mills, and BRK 2023 2nd round pick (#51)
New York out: Isaiah Hartenstein and Evan Fournier

Expiring and a new future 1st? I'd do it
The ModFather

My sports teams are currently experiencing suckiness. Please pardon the mess.
User avatar
Netaman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,272
And1: 1,323
Joined: Jun 04, 2004

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#730 » by Netaman » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:47 am

CalamityX12 wrote:
Netaman wrote:interesting trade proposal from the t&t board - fournier is expiring so i'd do that in a nanosecond, would be great to get a likely lotto pick next year for DFS:

Brooklyn in: Evan Fournier and POR 2024 1st (protected 1-4 through 2028)
Brooklyn out: Dorian Finney Smith, Patty Mills, 2023 2nd round pick (#51)

Chicago in: Dorian Finney-Smith and Isaiah Hartenstein
Chicago out: Nikola Vucevic (sign and trade at 16-18 per year for 3 years), Dalen Terry, and POR 2024 1st

New York in: Nikola Vucevic, Dalen Terry, Patty Mills, and BRK 2023 2nd round pick (#51)
New York out: Isaiah Hartenstein and Evan Fournier

Expiring and a new future 1st? I'd do it


same. i assume the offer of 2 firsts for dfs were 2 crappy firsts from a playoff team and marks figured at the draft he'll have more options to either get 1 better future pick (like this), or to move up (like the mavs pick), or who knows something else altogether?

this should be a fun draft though - we are an easy connector with a lot of different combinations of teams.
GTR11
RealGM
Posts: 10,310
And1: 2,847
Joined: Jan 17, 2019

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#731 » by GTR11 » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:52 am

CalamityX12 wrote:
Paradise wrote:Iggy hinting at something

Read on Twitter

What this

Tells me more about Kyrie and what players around the league think about BK and him.
User avatar
Keith Van Horn
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,976
And1: 1,217
Joined: Feb 18, 2012
   

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#732 » by Keith Van Horn » Thu Jun 8, 2023 1:03 pm

For all the CamJ talk...

tbh I was a always a bit underwhelmed by him this year. He seems like a good enough, shoot first type player you'd want on your team, but I think it'll come down to money for him. He's not a "retain at all costs" type guy.

However, we have the Bridges "friendship" hump to get past. They are very close friends, and Mikal is one of the future cornerstone pieces of this franchise. So do we keep CamJ in order to keep things peachy for Mikal? Is there a price breakpoint? Remember when Mikal posted on some IG post "Pay this man" in reference to CamJ? I know that seems kind of comical in the business mindset of the league, but there are X factors like this that could go a long way. Just sayin...

And as for the Iggy and CP3 talk... hmm... let's see how the next few days play out.

I'm still very interested in Dame Lillard though.
User avatar
Netaman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,272
And1: 1,323
Joined: Jun 04, 2004

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#733 » by Netaman » Thu Jun 8, 2023 1:59 pm

if we gave Joe Harris 20m per year Cam J is an easy decision in the low 20's, unless the price goes up way beyond that. Cam plays defense and is a lot more dynamic. I dont think the price is going to go up as much as everyone says, and if there''s a team who wants him that bad like Houston or Detroit we should do a S&T and try to get a top 10 pick out it for our troubles. Maybe another TE.

but I expect they are going to get a deal done in the 4x80-90m range.
TheNetsFan
Head Coach
Posts: 7,424
And1: 2,823
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
   

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#734 » by TheNetsFan » Thu Jun 8, 2023 2:24 pm

It's a small sample size, but Cam stepped up in the playoffs in my opinion. That being said, I still think he's best served as a no more than a team's 4th best player, but some team may be him like a 3rd best player. That's probably the difference between starting at DFS money vs Harris money.
Paradise
Nets Forum: Asst. To The RM
Posts: 39,031
And1: 11,974
Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Location: NYC
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#735 » by Paradise » Thu Jun 8, 2023 9:57 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
Tha King wrote:What does Cam Johnson do at a good/starter level beyond C&S?

Rebound? Playmake? Score? Defend? If he isn't making (assisted) jumpers, what does he give the team? You start to really ask this when he's not on a rookie scale but 20+.

exactly what I'm saying. He's pretty much a bigger Joe Harris atp

He’s a Forward who shoots it elite, can expand his game and could be our Michael Porter Jr if we give him a chance but he unfortunately came to the most entitled and ungrateful fan base in the league right now. He’s got far more from to grow.
ecuhus1981
RealGM
Posts: 16,931
And1: 1,590
Joined: Jun 19, 2007
       

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#736 » by ecuhus1981 » Fri Jun 9, 2023 4:38 am

Netaman wrote:
CalamityX12 wrote:
Netaman wrote:interesting trade proposal from the t&t board - fournier is expiring so i'd do that in a nanosecond, would be great to get a likely lotto pick next year for DFS:


Expiring and a new future 1st? I'd do it


same. i assume the offer of 2 firsts for dfs were 2 crappy firsts from a playoff team and marks figured at the draft he'll have more options to either get 1 better future pick (like this), or to move up (like the mavs pick), or who knows something else altogether?

this should be a fun draft though - we are an easy connector with a lot of different combinations of teams.

Hmmm.

New York can't receive a player via sign and trade, they would hard cap themselves and they are close to the luxury tax apron even before re-signing Hart. Besides, even if they wanted to S&T someone, why Vuc??? They already have Mitchell Robinson making big money at the 5, and Vucevic doesn't seem like a Thibs dude at all.

Also, no thanks to Evan. We can get a 1st and pure capspace for DFS, but really I would rather keep him. He played poorly in most of his 24 games for us while dealing with a hand injury. Give him an offseason to heal and learn Jacque's system, and I think he'll do well here.
Some people really have a way with words. Other people... not... have... way.
-- Steve Martin
User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 51,070
And1: 3,844
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#737 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jun 9, 2023 2:26 pm

Paradise wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
Tha King wrote:What does Cam Johnson do at a good/starter level beyond C&S?

Rebound? Playmake? Score? Defend? If he isn't making (assisted) jumpers, what does he give the team? You start to really ask this when he's not on a rookie scale but 20+.

exactly what I'm saying. He's pretty much a bigger Joe Harris atp

He’s a Forward who shoots it elite, can expand his game and could be our Michael Porter Jr if we give him a chance but he unfortunately came to the most entitled and ungrateful fan base in the league right now. He’s got far more from to grow.

Idk if he even has a ton more room for growth tbh, but if he’s a bigger Joe Harris, why is this being touted as some type of negative?

Unless we’re talking Joe’s playoff falloff’s, and if we’re looking at all we have to look at with Cam, he increased his output and efficiency in the PO’s, albeit again, only a 4 game sample.

Before the long string of injuries, Joe Harris was a deadly low usage 4th best player type, if we’re saying Cam is a bigger, younger, more athletic Joey Buckets, this is a good thing for sure.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
Papi_swav
General Manager
Posts: 9,301
And1: 4,880
Joined: Jan 03, 2016
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#738 » by Papi_swav » Fri Jun 9, 2023 4:05 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Paradise wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:exactly what I'm saying. He's pretty much a bigger Joe Harris atp

He’s a Forward who shoots it elite, can expand his game and could be our Michael Porter Jr if we give him a chance but he unfortunately came to the most entitled and ungrateful fan base in the league right now. He’s got far more from to grow.

Idk if he even has a ton more room for growth tbh, but if he’s a bigger Joe Harris, why is this being touted as some type of negative?

Unless we’re talking Joe’s playoff falloff’s, and if we’re looking at all we have to look at with Cam, he increased his output and efficiency in the PO’s, albeit again, only a 4 game sample.

Before the long string of injuries, Joe Harris was a deadly low usage 4th best player type, if we’re saying Cam is a bigger, younger, more athletic Joey Buckets, this is a good thing for sure.

@ Paradise, he doesn't have much room to grow, he is who he is. He is an elite shooter with good size which has value ( which I've said several times but you choose to ignore that part) but he will be soon overpaid. And for the Nets being entitled and ungrateful, you must be living under a rock or not know fans from other teams especially Lakers and Celtics, what a clown statement. But you're over here trying to slight me and throw shade as if I'm entitled for saying the truth and having facts to my argument but you want to go off what ifs. We already have a guy who's 2 times better than him like I said that money will be used better elsewhere to fit the team better but you rather talk ishh because your a stan of his :crazy: and for him being "our Michael Porter Jr." honestly we don't need one of those. We need a Jamal Murray type of player. MPJ can disappear in games as we've seen

@vince, I already stated previously that I'm not trying to make him a bad player and stated him being a bigger Joe Harris as having value. But we can use his about to be overpaid contract on other players that will fit the roster better.
User avatar
vincecarter4pres
RealGM
Posts: 51,070
And1: 3,844
Joined: May 30, 2005
Location: New Jeruz
Contact:
     

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#739 » by vincecarter4pres » Fri Jun 9, 2023 5:33 pm

Papi_swav wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
Paradise wrote:He’s a Forward who shoots it elite, can expand his game and could be our Michael Porter Jr if we give him a chance but he unfortunately came to the most entitled and ungrateful fan base in the league right now. He’s got far more from to grow.

Idk if he even has a ton more room for growth tbh, but if he’s a bigger Joe Harris, why is this being touted as some type of negative?

Unless we’re talking Joe’s playoff falloff’s, and if we’re looking at all we have to look at with Cam, he increased his output and efficiency in the PO’s, albeit again, only a 4 game sample.

Before the long string of injuries, Joe Harris was a deadly low usage 4th best player type, if we’re saying Cam is a bigger, younger, more athletic Joey Buckets, this is a good thing for sure.

@ Paradise, he doesn't have much room to grow, he is who he is. He is an elite shooter with good size which has value ( which I've said several times but you choose to ignore that part) but he will be soon overpaid. And for the Nets being entitled and ungrateful, you must be living under a rock or not know fans from other teams especially Lakers and Celtics, what a clown statement. But you're over here trying to slight me and throw shade as if I'm entitled for saying the truth and having facts to my argument but you want to go off what ifs. We already have a guy who's 2 times better than him like I said that money will be used better elsewhere to fit the team better but you rather talk ishh because your a stan of his :crazy: and for him being "our Michael Porter Jr." honestly we don't need one of those. We need a Jamal Murray type of player. MPJ can disappear in games as we've seen

@vince, I already stated previously that I'm not trying to make him a bad player and stated him being a bigger Joe Harris as having value. But we can use his about to be overpaid contract on other players that will fit the roster better.

I’d be fine with Cam J being S&T’ed for a solid return, whether a player or picks.

Also fine if he’s re-signed with the intentions of trading him in the future for value.

What I’m not going to be cool with, is if he’s given away for free like Dinwiddie was.

Cam J is not a retain at all costs type of player. But he is a player with great on court value in today’s NBA. You shouldn’t let that type of player at his age walk for free.

And I do wonder how it will affect Mikal if he’s dealt.
Image
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
User avatar
Netaman
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,272
And1: 1,323
Joined: Jun 04, 2004

Re: Early discussion on the 2023 offseason 

Post#740 » by Netaman » Fri Jun 9, 2023 8:15 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Papi_swav wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Idk if he even has a ton more room for growth tbh, but if he’s a bigger Joe Harris, why is this being touted as some type of negative?

Unless we’re talking Joe’s playoff falloff’s, and if we’re looking at all we have to look at with Cam, he increased his output and efficiency in the PO’s, albeit again, only a 4 game sample.

Before the long string of injuries, Joe Harris was a deadly low usage 4th best player type, if we’re saying Cam is a bigger, younger, more athletic Joey Buckets, this is a good thing for sure.

@ Paradise, he doesn't have much room to grow, he is who he is. He is an elite shooter with good size which has value ( which I've said several times but you choose to ignore that part) but he will be soon overpaid. And for the Nets being entitled and ungrateful, you must be living under a rock or not know fans from other teams especially Lakers and Celtics, what a clown statement. But you're over here trying to slight me and throw shade as if I'm entitled for saying the truth and having facts to my argument but you want to go off what ifs. We already have a guy who's 2 times better than him like I said that money will be used better elsewhere to fit the team better but you rather talk ishh because your a stan of his :crazy: and for him being "our Michael Porter Jr." honestly we don't need one of those. We need a Jamal Murray type of player. MPJ can disappear in games as we've seen

@vince, I already stated previously that I'm not trying to make him a bad player and stated him being a bigger Joe Harris as having value. But we can use his about to be overpaid contract on other players that will fit the roster better.

I’d be fine with Cam J being S&T’ed for a solid return, whether a player or picks.

Also fine if he’s re-signed with the intentions of trading him in the future for value.

What I’m not going to be cool with, is if he’s given away for free like Dinwiddie was.

Cam J is not a retain at all costs type of player. But he is a player with great on court value in today’s NBA. You shouldn’t let that type of player at his age walk for free.

And I do wonder how it will affect Mikal if he’s dealt.


I'd trade Cam for picks #4-7 if offered and i'd do that knowing there's a 50/50 chance whoever they get doesn't end up as good as him. the upside and the $ cost savings would be worth it.

i dont think it gets offered and im not sure how aggressive we'll be pursuing it vs just signing him, but if it does id do it.

Return to Brooklyn Nets