Trade Thread Tread pt.2 2023-24 - (Off-season)

[ddb]

I'll keep reiterating it on every thread - it's ALMOST a guarantee we're moving one of those two due to the new CBA. Have to shed real money this offseason.

Celtics will be looking to move Brogdon but his injury is going to make it difficult in my opinion. Celtics and Brad Stevens won't move Smart, Brown or White. Stevens pretty much said so in his press conference unless of course they hit a snag in the Jaylen Brown extension talks.

You might be right. But just because Brad said that in a press conference, he could still trade those guys.

He's obviously gonna say "we like our guys, we like our core, blah blah blah" in the press conference because:

a) that way he has leverage in trade negotiations. If he says "yup, Smart and JB are terrible, we need to trade them ASAP" then any leverage he has in trade negations goes out the window

b) he doesn't want any of the players freaking out, getting all worried or paranoid that they're gonna get traded. Wants to keep tension down, keep spirits high among all the players - especially after a disappointing ending to the season, which literally JUST happened so the players are still probably really bummed out about it

It shouldn't surprise anyone if smart or brown gets moved this summer - especially given the huge pay increase JB could potentially get, considering something seemed off with this team after the star break and in playoffs, we fell short of our goal this season and we also have a logjam in the back court (and lack of depth in the front court)..

Yup, exactly. But he's also telling the truth. He does like his guys. In fact, I'm sure he loves them. He's been in their lives for many years. But at the end of the day, Brad makes the big bucks because it's his job and responsibility to construct a roster that has the best chance to win a championship. He also has the responsibility to build that roster out while following the specific rules as governed by the CBA. So at times he needs to take sentiment out, put on his blinders a bit, and make difficult decisions.
Paying a player like Jaylen Brown a supermax contract is probably not in the best interest of the organization beyond this upcoming season. Brad's biggest decision this offseason is to gauge the market and figure out if it's in his team's best interest to sell Brown to the highest bidder NOW or sign him now and let this situation play out further.
Whether we want to admit it or not, Jaylen Brown's value in the summer of 2024 is likely to be less than what it is right now. That's a fact. Regardless of what he accomplishes in 23-24. The fact of the matter is he's unlikely to be All-NBA again. There were 3-5 forwards better than him that didn't play enough games in 22-23 to make All-NBA. He'll also have a massive contact tied to him.

For me, I keep coming back to wanting to trade Jaylen now. Whether it's for an established star like Dame, or for a package including a lottery pick and talented players....To me, it just makes sense on so many levels.

[Larry_Russell]

Jaylen Brown, Smart to Houston (2 vets, both big IME guys, both fit perfect with Harden...imo...who they still have the space to sign)
(Out #4, Porter Jr, Eason and tate)

#4, 2024 Boston 1st top 3 prtected, 2026 Boston 1st top 14 protected, Payton Pritcahrd, Danillo Galinari and J. tate to Portland
(get picks and shed 29 million in salary immediately, great start to the future rebuild)
(Out: Dame)

Dame, Porter Jr and Eason to Boston
(Out: Brown, Smart, 2024 first, 2026 first, Pritcahrd, Gallinari)


Dame/Brogdon
Porter JR/White
Tatum/Hauser
Eason/Grant
Timelord/Horford

[Hal14]

Celtics will be looking to move Brogdon but his injury is going to make it difficult in my opinion. Celtics and Brad Stevens won't move Smart, Brown or White. Stevens pretty much said so in his press conference unless of course they hit a snag in the Jaylen Brown extension talks.

You might be right. But just because Brad said that in a press conference, he could still trade those guys.

He's obviously gonna say "we like our guys, we like our core, blah blah blah" in the press conference because:

a) that way he has leverage in trade negotiations. If he says "yup, Smart and JB are terrible, we need to trade them ASAP" then any leverage he has in trade negations goes out the window

b) he doesn't want any of the players freaking out, getting all worried or paranoid that they're gonna get traded. Wants to keep tension down, keep spirits high among all the players - especially after a disappointing ending to the season, which literally JUST happened so the players are still probably really bummed out about it

It shouldn't surprise anyone if smart or brown gets moved this summer - especially given the huge pay increase JB could potentially get, considering something seemed off with this team after the star break and in playoffs, we fell short of our goal this season and we also have a logjam in the back court (and lack of depth in the front court)..

Yup, exactly. But he's also telling the truth. He does like his guys. In fact, I'm sure he loves them. He's been in their lives for many years. But at the end of the day, Brad makes the big bucks because it's his job and responsibility to construct a roster that has the best chance to win a championship. He also has the responsibility to build that roster out while following the specific rules as governed by the CBA. So at times he needs to take sentiment out, put on his blinders a bit, and make difficult decisions.
Paying a player like Jaylen Brown a supermax contract is probably not in the best interest of the organization beyond this upcoming season. Brad's biggest decision this offseason is to gauge the market and figure out if it's in his team's best interest to sell Brown to the highest bidder NOW or sign him now and let this situation play out further.
Whether we want to admit it or not, Jaylen Brown's value in the summer of 2024 is likely to be less than what it is right now. That's a fact. Regardless of what he accomplishes in 23-24. The fact of the matter is he's unlikely to be All-NBA again. There were 3-5 forwards better than him that didn't play enough games in 22-23 to make All-NBA. He'll also have a massive contact tied to him.

For me, I keep coming back to wanting to trade Jaylen now. Whether it's for an established star like Dame, or for a package including a lottery pick and talented players....To me, it just makes sense on so many levels.

I think JB for Siakam could work. Both have 1 year left on their contract.

There would probably be some other pieces/assets involved in the deal, but that would be the main framework of it.

Toronto is more in rebuilding mode, rather than being a contender. So why not trade for the star who's a few years younger, fits the timeline better with Barnes.

JB is happy because he gets to go somewhere where he's THE primary scoring option. And he goes to a team that is the only team for the entire country of Canada, which is good for him from a business perspective. Has an entire country to sell his 7uice merchandise to.

Celtics don't have to pay way too much money for JB and they get a star who fits better with Tatum - a star who has already won a title, knows what it takes - played a BIG role on that championship team for Toronto - is much better at creating for others than JB is..

[ddb]

You think the Blazers trade Dame?

Yes

Give us spme speculation man.

What does he go?
What is the return?

It's really hard to say, man. Brad is still pretty new in this role. Based on what we've seen from Brad, he's been aggressive. I've liked every move he's made so far.
If I'm betting, I expect him to make at least 1 substantial move, maybe 2. The team was in the finals last year. So, regardless of regular season win totals in 22-23, the team digressed. Not to mention both Atlanta and Philly made it REALLY interesting. The Celts are a historic Tatum game away from losing in the semis to a lousy Philly team.

I don't necessarily view his remarks about the team and continuity as any indication that he's keeping the core group together as-is. I look at things more objectively. Let's break it down.

-Tatum will improve and keep getting better.
-Brown has the contract situation looming. Redundant as a star next to Tatum.
-Al Horford is old in NBA years, but on a good contract. The goal with Al moving forward should be veteran bench guy. 20-25mpg.
-Smart is on a good contract and a foxhole guy. Keep him unless it's a great deal for Boston
-Timelord. Love his impact. Hate his durability.
-White. Love his connective tissue impact to the team. He's a lock to return IMO unless it's a great deal for Boston
-Brogdon. Great regular season. Decent playoff until his injury. Durability always a concern with him. Sell high?
-Grant. Tough player. Good locker room guy. Playoff rotation piece. What's the price tag?
-Pritchard. Wants to play. What's the return in a trade? Is he the type of guy we want in the rotation if a move or two is made?
-Gallo. We signed him for a reason. 6.8 is nothing. Might as well bring him back unless we need that $$ to match on a good deal for us.

That's how I'm looking at things. And that's before I look at logistics and how they all mesh together. What were the weaknesses? Strengths? We can go on and on about this. For me, the team needs more playmaking. Someone to take pressure off Tatum. We need more leadership and toughness. I'm not worried about the regular season. But in a tough playoff game when a Jimmy Butler is bullying us....Who's stepping up and saying, "enough". I'm also a bit worried about our bigman depth and durability.

So, I strongly lean towards making changes. And I believe that as Brad and his staff go through their thorough evaluation of this team, they will come to the same conclusion. Hence my prediction that 1-2 substantial moves will happen this offseason.

This team isn't the 2013-2014 Spurs that ran it back and won....Those teams had established champions on the roster and a historic coach. Brad needs to factor that in. This team is more like the 76ers in the early 80's that needed to shake things up and go get Moses to push them over the top.

[ddb]

Jaylen Brown, Smart to Houston (2 vets, both big IME guys, both fit perfect with Harden...imo...who they still have the space to sign)
(Out #4, Porter Jr, Eason and tate)

#4, 2024 Boston 1st top 3 prtected, 2026 Boston 1st top 14 protected, Payton Pritcahrd, Danillo Galinari and J. tate to Portland
(get picks and shed 29 million in salary immediately, great start to the future rebuild)
(Out: Dame)

Dame, Porter Jr and Eason to Boston
(Out: Brown, Smart, 2024 first, 2026 first, Pritcahrd, Gallinari)


Dame/Brogdon
Porter JR/White
Tatum/Hauser
Eason/Grant
Timelord/Horford

for what it's worth I HATE KPJ as a player. And I don't think he's a mature person either.

[ddb]

You might be right. But just because Brad said that in a press conference, he could still trade those guys.

He's obviously gonna say "we like our guys, we like our core, blah blah blah" in the press conference because:

a) that way he has leverage in trade negotiations. If he says "yup, Smart and JB are terrible, we need to trade them ASAP" then any leverage he has in trade negations goes out the window

b) he doesn't want any of the players freaking out, getting all worried or paranoid that they're gonna get traded. Wants to keep tension down, keep spirits high among all the players - especially after a disappointing ending to the season, which literally JUST happened so the players are still probably really bummed out about it

It shouldn't surprise anyone if smart or brown gets moved this summer - especially given the huge pay increase JB could potentially get, considering something seemed off with this team after the star break and in playoffs, we fell short of our goal this season and we also have a logjam in the back court (and lack of depth in the front court)..

Yup, exactly. But he's also telling the truth. He does like his guys. In fact, I'm sure he loves them. He's been in their lives for many years. But at the end of the day, Brad makes the big bucks because it's his job and responsibility to construct a roster that has the best chance to win a championship. He also has the responsibility to build that roster out while following the specific rules as governed by the CBA. So at times he needs to take sentiment out, put on his blinders a bit, and make difficult decisions.
Paying a player like Jaylen Brown a supermax contract is probably not in the best interest of the organization beyond this upcoming season. Brad's biggest decision this offseason is to gauge the market and figure out if it's in his team's best interest to sell Brown to the highest bidder NOW or sign him now and let this situation play out further.
Whether we want to admit it or not, Jaylen Brown's value in the summer of 2024 is likely to be less than what it is right now. That's a fact. Regardless of what he accomplishes in 23-24. The fact of the matter is he's unlikely to be All-NBA again. There were 3-5 forwards better than him that didn't play enough games in 22-23 to make All-NBA. He'll also have a massive contact tied to him.

For me, I keep coming back to wanting to trade Jaylen now. Whether it's for an established star like Dame, or for a package including a lottery pick and talented players....To me, it just makes sense on so many levels.

I think JB for Siakam could work. Both have 1 year left on their contract.

There would probably be some other pieces/assets involved in the deal, but that would be the main framework of it.

Toronto is more in rebuilding mode, rather than being a contender. So why not trade for the star who's a few years younger, fits the timeline better with Barnes.

JB is happy because he gets to go somewhere where he's THE primary scoring option.

Celtics don't have to pay way too much money for JB and they get a star who fits better with Tatum - a star who has already won a title, knows what it takes - played a BIG role on that championship team for Toronto - is much better at creating for others than JB is..

I'm not doing that because Brown is the better player and the younger player. It's not a good deal 1 for 1.

[Celticsfan100]

I’m not a big fan of acquiring the #3 pick and sharpe or simons for brown. We would be waisting Tatum’s best years waiting on these guys to develop. And certainly not winning a title anytime soon. You either run it back with an improved roster or you trade brown for someone of equal value. The championship window needs to stay open as many years as we can get out of it. Eventually we will break thru.

[Fierce1]

No it doesn't. We're not taking on another $30M player.

If the goal is a championship then money should not be an issue.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the new CBA.

The new CBA allows teams to keep their core intact, but it prevents teams from further improving the roster.

So what if the Celtics overspend?

The big man problem is very obvious.

Not addressing that issue will only make the Celtics exit the playoffs year after year.

From the 50s to the 2000s, the Celts never won a championship without a star big man.

Ayton is still young and he will very likely get better as he matures.

Besides, if you have Tatum, Brown, Ayton, White, and Brogdon as the top 5 and Rob, Al, maybe Grant, Hauser, and maybe PP as bench players, that's a championship contender for at least 2 to 3 years.

The Heat defense killed the Celtic offense because the Celtics are a one trick pony on offense.

Look at how Denver dismantles the Heat defense using inside-outside basketball.

Celtic offense is too predictable without an inside threat.

[fallguy]

If the goal is a championship then money should not be an issue.

You really need to familiarize yourself with the new CBA.

The new CBA allows teams to keep their core intact, but it prevents teams from further improving the roster.

So what if the Celtics overspend?

The big man problem is very obvious.

Not addressing that issue will only make the Celtics exit the playoffs year after year.

From the 50s to the 2000s, the Celts never won a championship without a star big man.

Ayton is still young and he will very likely get better as he matures.

Besides, if you have Tatum, Brown, Ayton, White, and Brogdon as the top 5 and Rob, Al, maybe Grant, Hauser, and maybe PP as bench players, that's a championship contender for at least 2 to 3 years.

The Heat defense killed the Celtic offense because the Celtics are a one trick pony on offense.

Look at how Denver dismantles the Heat defense using inside-outside basketball.

Celtic offense is too predictable without an inside threat.

How much would your roster cost in year one, two and three?

Also, Ayton sucks.

[CelticFaninLBC]

He nearly flipped Smart to the Hawks last January.

Who was the Atlanta trade target?

[celticgreenie]

Yup, exactly. But he's also telling the truth. He does like his guys. In fact, I'm sure he loves them. He's been in their lives for many years. But at the end of the day, Brad makes the big bucks because it's his job and responsibility to construct a roster that has the best chance to win a championship. He also has the responsibility to build that roster out while following the specific rules as governed by the CBA. So at times he needs to take sentiment out, put on his blinders a bit, and make difficult decisions.
Paying a player like Jaylen Brown a supermax contract is probably not in the best interest of the organization beyond this upcoming season. Brad's biggest decision this offseason is to gauge the market and figure out if it's in his team's best interest to sell Brown to the highest bidder NOW or sign him now and let this situation play out further.
Whether we want to admit it or not, Jaylen Brown's value in the summer of 2024 is likely to be less than what it is right now. That's a fact. Regardless of what he accomplishes in 23-24. The fact of the matter is he's unlikely to be All-NBA again. There were 3-5 forwards better than him that didn't play enough games in 22-23 to make All-NBA. He'll also have a massive contact tied to him.

For me, I keep coming back to wanting to trade Jaylen now. Whether it's for an established star like Dame, or for a package including a lottery pick and talented players....To me, it just makes sense on so many levels.

I think JB for Siakam could work. Both have 1 year left on their contract.

There would probably be some other pieces/assets involved in the deal, but that would be the main framework of it.

Toronto is more in rebuilding mode, rather than being a contender. So why not trade for the star who's a few years younger, fits the timeline better with Barnes.

JB is happy because he gets to go somewhere where he's THE primary scoring option.

Celtics don't have to pay way too much money for JB and they get a star who fits better with Tatum - a star who has already won a title, knows what it takes - played a BIG role on that championship team for Toronto - is much better at creating for others than JB is..

I'm not doing that because Brown is the better player and the younger player. It's not a good deal 1 for 1.

I agree. Also, I would not do the deal if Raptors added some assets either. Got to get the best player back in a deal. That's why a Dame for Jaylen deal would be acceptable in my book.

[fallguy]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

[Fierce1]

You really need to familiarize yourself with the new CBA.

The new CBA allows teams to keep their core intact, but it prevents teams from further improving the roster.

So what if the Celtics overspend?

The big man problem is very obvious.

Not addressing that issue will only make the Celtics exit the playoffs year after year.

From the 50s to the 2000s, the Celts never won a championship without a star big man.

Ayton is still young and he will very likely get better as he matures.

Besides, if you have Tatum, Brown, Ayton, White, and Brogdon as the top 5 and Rob, Al, maybe Grant, Hauser, and maybe PP as bench players, that's a championship contender for at least 2 to 3 years.

The Heat defense killed the Celtic offense because the Celtics are a one trick pony on offense.

Look at how Denver dismantles the Heat defense using inside-outside basketball.

Celtic offense is too predictable without an inside threat.

How much would your roster cost in year one, two and three?

Also, Ayton sucks.

He averaged 18 ppg and 10 rpg last season.

That's not a player that sucks.

Maybe underachieved.

White, Brogdon, Al, and Rob will all expire by the end of 2025.

Ayton's contract is up to the 2025-26 season.

It's a 2 or 3-year window.

This is the perfect time to trade for Ayton because his trade value is not high at this point in time.

And he will be just 25 years old next season.

[Fierce1]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not if the Celtics reach the finals of 2023-24.

But yeah, if the Celts crash and burn again next season then JB will most likely get traded.

[Celts17Pride]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not many super max guys get traded unless they ask out. John Wall is the only one that comes to mind for me. Maybe there are some others.

[fallguy]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not if the Celtics reach the finals of 2023-24.

But yeah, if the Celts crash and burn again next season then JB will most likely get traded.

I don't think it matters. I think he's gone regardless. Not just for financial reasons but also because he wants out (once he gets his money).

[fallguy]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not many super max guys get traded unless they ask out. John Wall is the only one that comes to mind for me. Maybe there are some others.

This will change once more of the league is on bigger contracts (both supermaxes and non-supermaxes post-cap spike with the new media rights deal).

I also expect Jaylen will ask out if we don't move him first.

[Celts17Pride]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not many super max guys get traded unless they ask out. John Wall is the only one that comes to mind for me. Maybe there are some others.

This will change once more of the league is on bigger contracts (both supermaxes and post-cap spike with the new media rights deal).

I also expect Jaylen will ask out if we don't move him first.

The new CBA is going to make it extremely tough to move super max guys with the 2nd apron and strict rules with draft picks. It means Brad Stevens better be sure it's what he wants to do before he does it.

[EWINGtheory]

I think there's almost no chance that Jaylen is on the Celtics in 2024-2025. All we're really doing is speculating about how and when he'll leave. But he's gone.

Not if the Celtics reach the finals of 2023-24.

But yeah, if the Celts crash and burn again next season then JB will most likely get traded.

I don't think it matters. I think he's gone regardless. Not just for financial reasons but also because he wants out (once he gets his money).

I could see next offseason if the Celtics don’t win a championship ownership wanting to try a different pairing

[ddb]

I’m not a big fan of acquiring the #3 pick and sharpe or simons for brown. We would be waisting Tatum’s best years waiting on these guys to develop. And certainly not winning a title anytime soon. You either run it back with an improved roster or you trade brown for someone of equal value. The championship window needs to stay open as many years as we can get out of it. Eventually we will break thru.

Dame time. I’ll take 2 great years and 2 solid years from Dame over 7 solid years from JB any day.