2023 Draft Discussion

[wheezy]

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why having a quality to top-notch scouting staff matters significantly!

UHHH-OOOWWW!!!! Right in the nuts bro!!! REALLY!! Watch where you are kicking!!!

And right after that we took Ulis 2 spots before Brogdon.

[kennydorglas]

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why having a quality to top-notch scouting staff matters significantly!

hahaha not going to lie but I loved Dragan as prospect.
Not sure what we saw on Chriss tho

[Ghost of Kleine]

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why having a quality to top-notch scouting staff matters significantly!

hahaha not going to lie but I loved Dragan as prospect.
Not sure what we saw on Chriss tho

Chriss was supposed to be viewed as a low budget version of Amare/Mcdyess for us. But never really adjusted or matured. Too much money too early 4 a kid.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Wow, crazy if CPs agent actually allowed offset language in that contract.

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[sunskerr]

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why having a quality to top-notch scouting staff matters significantly!

hahaha not going to lie but I loved Dragan as prospect.
Not sure what we saw on Chriss tho

Chriss was supposed to be viewed as a low budget version of Amare/Mcdyess for us. But never really adjusted or matured. Too much money too early 4 a kid.

McD had a thing for athletic and unskilled/raw players. Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ayton...

[Slim Charless]

hahaha not going to lie but I loved Dragan as prospect.
Not sure what we saw on Chriss tho

Chriss was supposed to be viewed as a low budget version of Amare/Mcdyess for us. But never really adjusted or matured. Too much money too early 4 a kid.

McD had a thing for athletic and unskilled/raw players. Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ayton...

I still think that Ayton was a Sarver call. Everything about that pick screams Booby $....the school, local product, position, plus we all know he was too cheap to be flying over to Europe to see Luka multiple times.

McD had just hired Luka's coach. I find it impossible to believe he did that without thinking he was gonna be able to draft Luka. McD learned under Danny Ainge and Danny would've taken Luka all day.

[wheezy]

hahaha not going to lie but I loved Dragan as prospect.
Not sure what we saw on Chriss tho

Chriss was supposed to be viewed as a low budget version of Amare/Mcdyess for us. But never really adjusted or matured. Too much money too early 4 a kid.

McD had a thing for athletic and unskilled/raw players. Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ayton...

Ayton is relatively skilled he just has 0 drive to use his athleticism on the court. Worse.... he's now quit on the team twice in two years.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Chriss was supposed to be viewed as a low budget version of Amare/Mcdyess for us. But never really adjusted or matured. Too much money too early 4 a kid.

McD had a thing for athletic and unskilled/raw players. Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ayton...

I still think that Ayton was a Sarver call. Everything about that pick screams Booby $....the school, local product, position, plus we all know he was too cheap to be flying over to Europe to see Luka multiple times.

McD had just hired Luka's coach. I find it impossible to believe he did that without thinking he was gonna be able to draft Luka. McD learned under Danny Ainge and Danny would've taken Luka all day.

I've tried to tell people this too! But some will always see it as what best fits their individual narratives.

[sunskerr]

McD had a thing for athletic and unskilled/raw players. Len, Bender, Chriss, Jackson, Ayton...

I still think that Ayton was a Sarver call. Everything about that pick screams Booby $....the school, local product, position, plus we all know he was too cheap to be flying over to Europe to see Luka multiple times.

McD had just hired Luka's coach. I find it impossible to believe he did that without thinking he was gonna be able to draft Luka. McD learned under Danny Ainge and Danny would've taken Luka all day.

I've tried to tell people this too! But some will always see it as what best fits their individual narratives.

Yes my personal vendetta against McD that I try to influence the media with by posting on a forum every day. What narrative are you even talking about cmon man.

Nobody here knows what exactly went down McDonough says one thing and his reactions to media saying he was drafting Ayton says another.

If I had to guess I would say...

Spoiler:

It doesn't matter because several players from the draft are better than Ayton and a few more could easily surpass him and whats done is done

[Ghost of Kleine]

I still think that Ayton was a Sarver call. Everything about that pick screams Booby $....the school, local product, position, plus we all know he was too cheap to be flying over to Europe to see Luka multiple times.

McD had just hired Luka's coach. I find it impossible to believe he did that without thinking he was gonna be able to draft Luka. McD learned under Danny Ainge and Danny would've taken Luka all day.

I've tried to tell people this too! But some will always see it as what best fits their individual narratives.

Yes my personal vendetta against McD that I try to influence the media with by posting on a forum every day. What narrative are you even talking about cmon man.

Nobody here knows what exactly went down McDonough says one thing and his reactions to media saying he was drafting Ayton says another.

If I had to guess I would say...

Spoiler:

It doesn't matter because several players from the draft are better than Ayton and a few more could easily surpass him and whats done is done

LOL! Taking this kinda personal aren't you man considering no one has mentioned you in this conversation specifically. Just so we're clear here though! My response was to Slim had absolutely nothing to do with any previous response you may have offered on the topic. But rather it was really more of a broad generalization for many who can't seem to get over the fact that we chose Ayton over Doncbi***. And I could care less about Mcdonough because he was a lousy talent evaluator as GM and I was happy to see him go. But since you're looking to engage in discussion over the topic of who chose Ayton over Doncic (as many continue to do (ad nauseum), let's answer your responses:

Yes my personal vendetta against McD that I try to influence the media with by posting on a forum every day. What narrative are you even talking about cmon man.

Who mentioned you having a personal vendetta anywhere at all in my response? And really man, as if yours or anyone's subjective opinions would bear any influence whatsoever on anyone or any professional sports entity outside of this message board!
And the narrative is pretty simple in that many people are either of one belief or another and trying to promote that still even after all this time has passed. The one narrative from one specific group is always Sarver wanted Doncic! But McD wanted Ayton and somehow magically McD somehow managed to usurp the owner's authority and go rogue and draft Ayton over Saver's wishes for Doncic. Because aside from what everyone already knows of Saver being one of the most tyrannical, heavy-handed power tripping owners ever, it's so common for owners to just forgo their final say or approval on monumental franchise decisions and hand control over to GM's that they visibly don't get along with!

Nobody here knows what exactly went down McDonough says one thing and his reactions to media saying he was drafting Ayton says another.

I agree with you on this man! But you're next statement is again typically nothing more than your subjective opinion or interpretation of the situation obviously. Because it's not like GMs are customarily going on the media to openly challenge their owner's preferences on a situation! I mean it's absurd to make the assertion that because a Gm was excited about the draft or even a player that it results in absolute certainties to the catalyst in such situations. I mean most people involved in basketball who have a passion for it find the process exciting or entertaining. Now If I'm wrong and you're actually an expert in behavioral analysis, then my apologies. But even simple logic for anyone given what we've come to know of Saver during his tenure here should illustrate his unwillingness to defer authority or control to any personnel beneath his station. So it's a bit absurd to insinuate he'd somehow relinquish authority/ control of the biggest decision in the history of the franchise under his tenure at that time. I mean how many instances do you honestly know of wherein an NBA owner steps aside and just tells his GM to go ahead and make whatever choice he wants with full discretion and autonomy? Who signs off in the end? who has the final say again?? The owner PERIOD!!!

If I had to guess I would say...

Spoiler:

It doesn't matter because several players from the draft are better than Ayton and a few more could easily surpass him and what done is done

Of course, you'd have to guess man! Because as you yourself said above, No one really knows exactly what went down. And really, If it doesn't matter, then why do some people keep choosing to bring it up so much? So what there are several players from the draft that are better than Ayton. It's really nothing more than a result of a situationally subjective outcome. Or in simpler terms, environmental benefit. Put Ayton in a different situation wherein he was getting as much usage or featured better in a more beneficial system that correlated to his abilities/ skillset, and we might be having an entirely different conversation here. By the way, how many others of those players you mentioned from the draft have enjoyed equal or better levels of team success? Personal accolades are fairly easy when putting team success after individual interests. Ayton made every sacrifice asked of him for multiple seasons, only to get crapped on by the owner and front office. The guy was a number #1 pick playing the role of a 4th option cleanup big and screen setter out at the 3-point line for Christ's sake when his skillset and talent offered historical efficiency and double/double production WHEN outlier occurrences for him to play in the post were randomly given. But you're right, what's done is done! Ayton will get moved finally! And the hindsight around here will be epic!

[sunskerr]

aint nobody reading that babble

[Ghost of Kleine]

aint nobody reading that babble

Translation: You just lack a good counter-argument! Or are too lazy to field one

[sunskerr]

No I'm just smart enough to not waste my time arguing with word vomit on the level of Ben Shapiro

[Ghost of Kleine]

No I'm just smart enough to not waste my time arguing with word vomit on the level of Ben Shapiro

That's fine man. As I said initially, My response wasn't even directed at you at all. I was merely responding to Slim's comment and didn't even see your post until after you got defensive and came at me. I've already told you that I actually agree with you on the subject of McD. But really only disagree on the opinions that Saver wanted Doncic over Ayton but deferred authority to McD. As for the word vomit thing, it's really not a difficult discussion to have if you actually have a reasonable counter-argument beyond subjective opinion. I at least extend you the courtesy of trying to explain my perspective out of respect. But can see that you won't choose to return the same courtesy. and instead, choose to resort to petty remarks to cover the lack of reasonable counterpoints on the subject. It is what it is, we both have differing perspectives. I try to explain mine, while you deflect and try to devalue my points with low-key tacky remarks. So sadly, that's the real bulk of your response capability here.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2023-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-have-prospects-gone/

Phoenix Suns Draft Workouts List

- Emoni Bates.
6'10 200 lbs. Long, lanky, very fluid and utterly skilled lottery level scoring wing/ forward with absolute star potential! He's got a very deep and diverse scoring ability. Propensity to hit the big shots! He has that irrational confidence that is a trademark of superstar players. He doesn't have great measurables and doesn't really have elite athleticism either but he's still really quick, long and very smooth as a scorer. He's an electrifying scorer/ prospect. He really just needs mentoring, and development. This draft workout is exciting because he's definitively a high end talent!

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

- Desmond Cambridge.
6'4 180 lb SG that has nba level athleticism, is an electric scor and r and uncanny tough shot maker with impressive ballhandling skillset. Good fluidity and moves well off ball. Basically a clone of Jordan Clarkson. This is an intriguing draft workout!

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

- Tanner Groves.
6'9 235 lbs a solid yet unathletic decent shooting big man in the mold of a less athletic Landale. Overall meh workout!

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

- Marquis Nowell.
Small in stature at 5'8 160 lbs but very skilled, ultra high IQ player that's a good passer, feisty defender, has a relentless motor, and is a phenomenal passer. He's a consummate poised floor general, and really for his size he's about as close to Paul's skillset/ playstyle as you'll find in the late 2nd to undrafted range. This workout is very intriguing.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[WeekapaugGroove]

Of course Sarver had influence on the Ayton pick, every owner of any pro sport would have influence on a decision of that level for their team. But go Google the press conference after Aytons workout, McD was giddy. Also he was very quick to toot his horn on Twitter about Ayton a couple years ago. I think he wanted DA.

The real mystery of that time period is why the hell Sarver didn't fire McD BEFORE that draft. It was clear he sucked at his job by then and it would have been the perfect time for a whole organizational change. Instead he keeps McD and then fires him like 2 months later, so weird.

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[BobbieL]

Of course Sarver had influence on the Ayton pick, every owner of any pro sport would have influence on a decision of that level for their team. But go Google the press conference after Aytons workout, McD was giddy. Also he was very quick to toot his horn on Twitter about Ayton a couple years ago. I think he wanted DA.

The real mystery of that time period is why the hell Sarver didn't fire McD BEFORE that draft. It was clear he sucked at his job by then and it would have been the perfect time for a whole organizational change. Instead he keeps McD and then fires him like 2 months later, so weird.

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RIGHT!!!

The Suns had -- if I recall, Chandler about to be an expiring, Dudley and maybe Troy Daniels
They had the top pick
They had the 16th pick
they had the Miami pick - yes it turned into Mikal
and the top pick of the 2nd round which was Elie Okobo when Brunson was there

I just know that Pat Riley with all those expirings and picks - would have done some serious damage! Serious Damage

P.S. I think they had 15m of cap space which McDunce spent in 15 seconds on Trevor Effing Ariza!

[Ghost of Kleine]

Of course Sarver had influence on the Ayton pick, every owner of any pro sport would have influence on a decision of that level for their team. But go Google the press conference after Aytons workout, McD was giddy. Also he was very quick to toot his horn on Twitter about Ayton a couple years ago. I think he wanted DA.

The real mystery of that time period is why the hell Sarver didn't fire McD BEFORE that draft. It was clear he sucked at his job by then and it would have been the perfect time for a whole organizational change. Instead he keeps McD and then fires him like 2 months later, so weird.

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Yep! I can definitely agree with that sentiment on McD. That's why I initially shared the tweet. But also you're very right about Saver doing weird things too. My whole point is quite simple in that Saver who everyone knows is/ was a notorious micromanaging control freak and megalomaniac who got off on his power and authority would of in no way ceded authority or power to McD to make the final call on the biggest draft decision in the franchises history.

Knowing that along with simple logic would indicate that Saver made the call ( decision) on drafting Ayton. And Ayton's connections to Arizona ( playing for them at the time) along with Saver being an Arizona Alumni and with his close business friends/ partners at the time also being Arizona boosters clearly support this perspective more legitimately than just reading into the perception of someone's emotions in an anomalous situation.

There's just no way Saver and his ego allow McD to make that decision and take any potential credit for it! Saver for sure made the call. I mean it's not like he said to himself............ Man! I really, really prefer Doncic and I am the owner. But McD is just so excited about Ayton!!! And he's my GM. I guess I'll just have to pass on what I really want and let my employee choose his favorite over mine!

I mean how could anyone legitimately rationalize that outcome? If you just think about it.

And this isn't at all to absolve McD of anything! Because everyone is clearly right about how bad a GM he was. But it's very clear from all the available facts that Saver and his ego made the Ayton call. And McD just faked support for the decision like any good yes msn trying to keep his job under a tyrannical egomaniacal boss!

[SlovenianDragon]

we should draft this guy during a taco bell commercial:

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[Ghost of Kleine]

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Coulilaby's up at the top of the backboard here! Man, he would've been an awesome Bridges replacement long-term.