Big Lillard/POR Debate - Please vote

[vincecarter4pres]

the offer they will need to beat is the miami offer.

that starts with pick #18 and Herro. both of which are advantage heat over cam thomas/#21 or #22. if they include caleb martin's reasonable deal, that's another advantage over dfs.

their distant future picks aren't as good as the nets, but they still have 1 or 2 and those picks will probably be appealing since butler and lillard are both probably 2-3 good years left. who knows maybe reilly retires, he'll be 80+ when those picks convey.

im not sure the nets can beat that offer, and if they could i dont think we'd want them to. so i think lillard is more likely to miami.

I don't know how desirable Herro would be for Portland. He's expensive and doesn't seem to be a great fit with Sharpe+Simons+Scoot/Miller. Miami currently can't trade their '24, '25, '26 or '27 pick because they owe a protected '25 first to OKC. Theoretically they can negotiate with OKC to unprotect it in '25 or '26 & free up an additional pick for trade.

So the choice for Portland would probably be something like:
Herro+Robinson+Jovic+#18 +1 future 1st
vs
Dinwiddie+Harris+#21+3 future 1sts (or Simmons instead of D+H) (or add Claxton & hold back 1 or 2 1sts)

There's probably alternate variations where a guy like DFS is included to to move up #10 which gets sent to Portland.

Caleb Martin probably brings back more than DFS and he's a player Portland may have interest in since he's young.

Herro could be re-routed elsewhere for picks if Portlant doesn't want him.

I agree the max offers on both sides could be comparable, but from a nets pov do we even bother if it takes their max offer?

for miami i think that is a yes, im not as sure that's true for the nets.

Yeah, if I’m Marks I stay away from Lillard unless you get him on the unthinkably cheap. Something like Simmons, both picks this year, maybe a Clax and Harris for Nurkic swap if necessary and throw-in Cam T and endless 2nd’s.

Same type of deal for Beal.

If not, for now build organically and pounce when a younger player who makes sense is available.

I’d also take a swing on KAT though, but again, only for the right package.

Still hope Marks finds a way into the lottery and maybe another pick in the teens using some combo of 21/22/2nds/Philly pick/DFS/Dinwiddie.

[Netaman]

I don't know how desirable Herro would be for Portland. He's expensive and doesn't seem to be a great fit with Sharpe+Simons+Scoot/Miller. Miami currently can't trade their '24, '25, '26 or '27 pick because they owe a protected '25 first to OKC. Theoretically they can negotiate with OKC to unprotect it in '25 or '26 & free up an additional pick for trade.

So the choice for Portland would probably be something like:
Herro+Robinson+Jovic+#18 +1 future 1st
vs
Dinwiddie+Harris+#21+3 future 1sts (or Simmons instead of D+H) (or add Claxton & hold back 1 or 2 1sts)

There's probably alternate variations where a guy like DFS is included to to move up #10 which gets sent to Portland.

Caleb Martin probably brings back more than DFS and he's a player Portland may have interest in since he's young.

Herro could be re-routed elsewhere for picks if Portlant doesn't want him.

I agree the max offers on both sides could be comparable, but from a nets pov do we even bother if it takes their max offer?

for miami i think that is a yes, im not as sure that's true for the nets.

Yeah, if I’m Marks I stay away from Lillard unless you get him on the unthinkably cheap. Something like Simmons, both picks this year, maybe a Clax and Harris for Nurkic swap if necessary and throw-in Cam T and endless 2nd’s.

Same type of deal for Beal.

If not, for now build organically and pounce when a younger player who makes sense is available.

I’d also take a swing on KAT though, but again, only for the right package.

Still hope Marks finds a way into the lottery and maybe another pick in the teens using some combo of 21/22/2nds/Philly pick/DFS/Dinwiddie.

that's how i see it as well. i have no issue trading for lillard, but you can't go all in on him. you need to maintain some assets to add another piece down the road to get over the top, because that's probably what you'd need. there is no all in guy this offseason so just make smart organic moves. try to get the best players/values you can get at the draft (whether it's moving up, or veterans available cheap, or deals too good to pass up for our vets). then approach FA the same way. if someone like FVV is getable, get him. Or Bruce Brown. Or anyone else young enough that fits the culture and timeline.

[TheNetsFan]

An interesting comment Dame made when expressing his "obvious" interest in Miami & Brooklyn, is that he wouldn't want to go to Miami if they win the title. Maybe we should be rooting for Miami (I'm pulling for Denver).

[JKiddy]

I think we end up dealing Dayron, Cam Thomas, and then either Simmons or DFS + Dinwiddie plus 2 1st rounders and 1 pick swap for Dame. Call me crazy but it's not 100 percent but I think its 51% at the moment.

We can then build around Dame, Brooklyn Bridges, CamJo, Claxton. I think we take the best player available with the remaining 1st we keep this season and keep a bench/role starters that can support these guys like Yuta, Royce/DFS(if not traded), Spencer(if not traded)/Sumner, etc.

We could likely sign and trade for some other needed players and use some exemptions when necessary.

This Draft and Free Agency might be very interesting.

[JRoy]

I think we end up dealing Dayron, Cam Thomas, and then either Simmons or DFS + Dinwiddie plus 2 1st rounders and 1 pick swap for Dame. Call me crazy but it's not 100 percent but I think its 51% at the moment.

We can then build around Dame, Brooklyn Bridges, CamJo, Claxton. I think we take the best player available with the remaining 1st we keep this season and keep a bench/role starters that can support these guys like Yuta, Royce/DFS(if not traded), Spencer(if not traded)/Sumner, etc.

We could likely sign and trade for some other needed players and use some exemptions when necessary.

This Draft and Free Agency might be very interesting.

I think POR strikes out landing a big fish and something like this happens. BKN, MIA MIL seem most likely to me.

[Eatgreenz]

btw, are we sure Lillard is going to cost so many picks?

I see we've throw around things like 3 or 4 picks... I just don't know about that the more I think about it.

Portland would wisely get as many picks as possible for him if they could. But If Marks says we'll give you

- pick 22 this year
- a pick like the phoenix 2025 one
- a couple 2nds
- expiring of Joe harris so they can open space next year in the post lillard era
- prospect of CamT to see if he's interchangeable with their young guys... jury is still out about him and he's cheap at the moment
- DFS, who's a versatile enough and probable sought after by a few, and maybe they flip him mid season for a 24 1st

to me, a move like this would make sense for Brooklyn and Portland.

Brooklyn gets a big time player in Lillard, who's a motivated veteran that still has tremendous game and could be a perfect mix for the core guys we have now. He plays a position of need for us too. And it doesn't require us to move Simmons or coaxing Portland into having to take him. Simmons can continue to rehab, play for the aussie national team, and come back under less pressure. I bet Dame would be a hell of a leader compared to the jamoke leadership of kyrie and KD.

Who's else is going to throw 3 or more picks at Portland for Lillard? I'm just not sure that's gonna happen. Does he really have THAT many suitors out there?

1000% If by draft Portland has their pick and selects Scoot they literally have to trade Dame. What are blazers really going to do start 4 guards. This brings down the dame cost alot.

[vincecarter4pres]

I just hate the idea of giving up any premium assets for Lillard. Like yeah, if he can stay healthy we’d be hella fun to watch the next couple years, but seasons 3 and 4 of that contract will likely be ugly.

[Tha King]

I think we end up dealing Dayron, Cam Thomas, and then either Simmons or DFS + Dinwiddie plus 2 1st rounders and 1 pick swap for Dame. Call me crazy but it's not 100 percent but I think its 51% at the moment.

We can then build around Dame, Brooklyn Bridges, CamJo, Claxton. I think we take the best player available with the remaining 1st we keep this season and keep a bench/role starters that can support these guys like Yuta, Royce/DFS(if not traded), Spencer(if not traded)/Sumner, etc.

We could likely sign and trade for some other needed players and use some exemptions when necessary.

This Draft and Free Agency might be very interesting.

I think POR strikes out landing a big fish and something like this happens. BKN, MIA MIL seem most likely to me.

That would be a good direction for your team. I think just getting off his contract and getting picks while rebuilding is the way to go. I don't think Lillard as the best player is leading a team anywhere.

The Heat would be a good spot for him where he'd be the second best player on a team that needs his skillset. Bucks too but not sure how that happens.

[JKiddy]

I don't see the Bucks in this.

Dame has made it clear if POR doesn't get a stud by his side he wants out to MIA or BK.

BK has better expiring deals and future picks. MIA could give up Herro.

Herro is redundant with all of their guards they are building around (Sharpe, possibly Scoot, more than likely keeping Simons).

So POR's more intelligent choice would be to get off Dame's contract and a few others they don't need and tank. They tank and get the best players the next 2-3 drafts and build confidence in the young guns so that 1-2 of them become stars.

Sharpe might become VC. That is how they feel now. If that happens and Scoot becomes 90% of prime D Rose then that is a nasty team. They can use a pick this season they get in a trade to get a new BIG. I am unsure if they keep Grant (they might) as they would need a vet to help mold the team during this transition period.

[Keith Van Horn]

Caleb Martin probably brings back more than DFS and he's a player Portland may have interest in since he's young.

Herro could be re-routed elsewhere for picks if Portlant doesn't want him.

I agree the max offers on both sides could be comparable, but from a nets pov do we even bother if it takes their max offer?

for miami i think that is a yes, im not as sure that's true for the nets.

Yeah, if I’m Marks I stay away from Lillard unless you get him on the unthinkably cheap. Something like Simmons, both picks this year, maybe a Clax and Harris for Nurkic swap if necessary and throw-in Cam T and endless 2nd’s.

Same type of deal for Beal.

If not, for now build organically and pounce when a younger player who makes sense is available.

I’d also take a swing on KAT though, but again, only for the right package.

Still hope Marks finds a way into the lottery and maybe another pick in the teens using some combo of 21/22/2nds/Philly pick/DFS/Dinwiddie.

that's how i see it as well. i have no issue trading for lillard, but you can't go all in on him. you need to maintain some assets to add another piece down the road to get over the top, because that's probably what you'd need. there is no all in guy this offseason so just make smart organic moves. try to get the best players/values you can get at the draft (whether it's moving up, or veterans available cheap, or deals too good to pass up for our vets). then approach FA the same way. if someone like FVV is getable, get him. Or Bruce Brown. Or anyone else young enough that fits the culture and timeline.

So my trade idea from yesterday with that package was kind of a "not all in" type deal, where if Lillard was to not give us what we wanted down the stretch these couple of years, then we didn't really lose that much.

Bc I agree, I don't want to give up things that can be seen as elite assets (ie those PHX picks in a few years) in case we end up hitting reset by sending out Bridges and Claxton and all.

and I still REALLY like the idea of FVV here too. And a FVV/Lillard backcourt duo could be really, really interesting...

[Keith Van Horn]

An interesting comment Dame made when expressing his "obvious" interest in Miami & Brooklyn, is that he wouldn't want to go to Miami if they win the title. Maybe we should be rooting for Miami (I'm pulling for Denver).

this has been a fun series so far, genuinely looking forward to game 4. No real rooting interest either... I just want to see good basketball. But now that you mention this Miami winning aspect... go Heat!

[Keith Van Horn]

I just hate the idea of giving up any premium assets for Lillard. Like yeah, if he can stay healthy we’d be hella fun to watch the next couple years, but seasons 3 and 4 of that contract will likely be ugly.

same. do you think anything out of this package is considered premium though?

- pick 22 this year
- a pick like the phoenix 2025 one
- a couple 2nds
- expiring of Joe harris so they can open space next year in the post lillard era
- prospect of CamT to see if he's interchangeable with their young guys... jury is still out about him and he's cheap at the moment
- DFS, who's a versatile enough and probable sought after by a few, and maybe they flip him mid season for a 24 1st

That's the angle where I was trying to come from as well... something that doesn't gut us, we keep a lot of the elite assets we have, but still maximize the trade value of what we currently have to put some elite scoring/veteran leadership around these young guys to get them grinding their teeth for the start of next season. And still try to make it enticing for Portland so they A) get immediate capital now and then, B) clear space, and C) get some chips to work with or flip (CT and DFS)

[TheNetsFan]

While I wouldn't value Dame this high, let's say the baseline offer is expirings (Dinwiddie+Harris) + 5 1sts. The Blazers want to dump Nurkic on us & they want Claxton back. Marks is willing to do either, but each at the cost of 2 1sts. What's the combo Portland chooses?

[JKiddy]

I do not think Marks is dumb enough to give up a) that many 1sts and b) Claxton.

They might be able to dump Nurkic on us. But, we would have to give up youth in Cam Thomas and Dayron. We likely lose 3-4 1sts with some expiring guys who can play (like Dinwiddie, Mills, DFS). They might keep one of them after they expire for a veteran presence to mold their future players.

[vincecarter4pres]

I just hate the idea of giving up any premium assets for Lillard. Like yeah, if he can stay healthy we’d be hella fun to watch the next couple years, but seasons 3 and 4 of that contract will likely be ugly.

same. do you think anything out of this package is considered premium though?

- pick 22 this year
- a pick like the phoenix 2025 one
- a couple 2nds
- expiring of Joe harris so they can open space next year in the post lillard era
- prospect of CamT to see if he's interchangeable with their young guys... jury is still out about him and he's cheap at the moment
- DFS, who's a versatile enough and probable sought after by a few, and maybe they flip him mid season for a 24 1st

That's the angle where I was trying to come from as well... something that doesn't gut us, we keep a lot of the elite assets we have, but still maximize the trade value of what we currently have to put some elite scoring/veteran leadership around these young guys to get them grinding their teeth for the start of next season. And still try to make it enticing for Portland so they A) get immediate capital now and then, B) clear space, and C) get some chips to work with or flip (CT and DFS)

I personally consider that ‘25 Suns pick a premium asset.

Can legit see a season where they haven’t recouped the loss of ‘22 CP3’s on court impact, Durant and Booker miss a combined 60+ games, they’ve made a weird, cap/luxury tax saving move and dealt Ayton for spare parts that haven’t equaled his departure, and whispers start. They wind up mid-late lotto, and “luck” into a jump to like 3rd overall.

But I also see it where Portland is probably going to require one of these perspective top picks in any Lillard deal, which is why I’m out on him.

But alas, I see a world where Tsai forces Marks hand again, Marks winds up explaining it away in the press conference and gets the blame.

[vincecarter4pres]

If I’m Marks, for either Lillard or Beal, the only picks on the table are this year’s, the Philly pick, and any of the “worst of” options years we have our own pick, or the Houston swap option years.

Like I’m out if they want even one solitary Phoenix or Dallas pick if we don’t have an option to defer.

And Clax is only available if Nurkic or Porzingis are incoming for other salary filler.

If Simmons was the salary filler in any flavor of these trades I’d lighten my stance to include one additional premium first.

[Keith Van Horn]

As badly as I want to try to include simmons in a potential deal and have it try to make sense, I just don't see any GM making the move for him now. He's the most damaged asset in the league rn.

[Keith Van Horn]

I just hate the idea of giving up any premium assets for Lillard. Like yeah, if he can stay healthy we’d be hella fun to watch the next couple years, but seasons 3 and 4 of that contract will likely be ugly.

same. do you think anything out of this package is considered premium though?

- pick 22 this year
- a pick like the phoenix 2025 one
- a couple 2nds
- expiring of Joe harris so they can open space next year in the post lillard era
- prospect of CamT to see if he's interchangeable with their young guys... jury is still out about him and he's cheap at the moment
- DFS, who's a versatile enough and probable sought after by a few, and maybe they flip him mid season for a 24 1st

That's the angle where I was trying to come from as well... something that doesn't gut us, we keep a lot of the elite assets we have, but still maximize the trade value of what we currently have to put some elite scoring/veteran leadership around these young guys to get them grinding their teeth for the start of next season. And still try to make it enticing for Portland so they A) get immediate capital now and then, B) clear space, and C) get some chips to work with or flip (CT and DFS)

I personally consider that ‘25 Suns pick a premium asset.

Can legit see a season where they haven’t recouped the loss of ‘22 CP3’s on court impact, Durant and Booker miss a combined 60+ games, they’ve made a weird, cap/luxury tax saving move and dealt Ayton for spare parts that haven’t equaled his departure, and whispers start. They wind up mid-late lotto, and “luck” into a jump to like 3rd overall.

But I also see it where Portland is probably going to require one of these perspective top picks in any Lillard deal, which is why I’m out on him.

But alas, I see a world where Tsai forces Marks hand again, Marks winds up explaining it away in the press conference and gets the blame.

Yeah that's probably the best item out of this deal... but if it gets us from like 4 picks down to 2 by including this one, I think Marks should consider it. Phoenix will be pushing their chips in for the next few years. And now there's even speculation about them pursuing Harden... maybe the Durant Harden thing will eventually work out with no whiny little brother kryie ruining things

[Tha King]

While I wouldn't value Dame this high, let's say the baseline offer is expirings (Dinwiddie+Harris) + 5 1sts. The Blazers want to dump Nurkic on us & they want Claxton back. Marks is willing to do either, but each at the cost of 2 1sts. What's the combo Portland chooses?

They are going to want Claxton. I think if the team is actually adamant about Lillard then I can see Claxton included to not only reduce some of the picks going out but because resigning him next year would be more difficult with Lillard on the roster.

[vincecarter4pres]

While I wouldn't value Dame this high, let's say the baseline offer is expirings (Dinwiddie+Harris) + 5 1sts. The Blazers want to dump Nurkic on us & they want Claxton back. Marks is willing to do either, but each at the cost of 2 1sts. What's the combo Portland chooses?

They are going to want Claxton. I think if the team is actually adamant about Lillard then I can see Claxton included to not only reduce some of the picks going out but because resigning him next year would be more difficult with Lillard on the roster.

Right.

If Lillard is dealt here, it feels like an almost certainty the deal will be expanded to include Nurkic for Clax and salary matching.