2023 NBA Draft (tonight's discussion on pg 58)

[Goldbum]

@#23 who do you like?
I see a few options:
Win now guys:Murray, Lewis, TJD, Clowney
Rebuild guys:GG,Nnaji,L.Miller

Or trade options:
#23 + Simons +Watford
4
Keldon Johnson

OR
#23+Knox+Nurkic +Keon+Walker
4
Ayton

OR
#23
4
Blazer's first returned from CHI

Thoughts or other options

[zzaj]

Just did a big ol’ deep dive on Miller—watched (w/Fast Forward) through 12 games over the past few days…my big offensive takeaways:

1–Guy is going to be a great shooter and floor spacer in the NBA. I fully expect him to make an impact there from day one. By my count he shot 70% on open 3s (both off the dribble and C&S). His footwork into his shot is very, very good—Constantly ready.

2) He has a “fake” handle. Simply put, on iso drives he gets zero seperation between he and his defender, and it all has to do with his lower body. There is a ton of wasted motion and inability to use angles to his advantage. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to get to the rim at the NBA level without some changes.

[JRoy]

Just did a big ol’ deep dive on Miller—watched (w/Fast Forward) through 12 games over the past few days…my big offensive takeaways:

1–Guy is going to be a great shooter and floor spacer in the NBA. I fully expect him to make an impact there from day one. By my count he shot 70% on open 3s (both off the dribble and C&S). His footwork into his shot is very, very good—Constantly ready.

2) He has a “fake” handle. Simply put, on iso drives he gets zero seperation between he and his defender, and it all has to do with his lower body. There is a ton of wasted motion and inability to use angles to his advantage. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to get to the rim at the NBA level without some changes.

Interesting insight.

What did you think of his defense?

[Norm2953]

It'll be Scoot, especially if Miller only works in Charlotte

[tester551]

@#23 who do you like?
I see a few options:
Win now guys:Murray, Lewis, TJD, Clowney
Rebuild guys:GG,Nnaji,L.Miller

Or trade options:
#23 + Simons +Watford
4
Keldon Johnson

OR
#23+Knox+Nurkic +Keon+Walker
4
Ayton

OR
#23
4
Blazer's first returned from CHI

Thoughts or other options

At 23, my initial picks were Leonard Miller, Bilal, & Nnaji. Looks like Miller & Bilal will be selected before 23.
I wouldn't mind Nnaji or Clowney here.

I don't really love this part of the draft... I'd rather have 2 picks in the high second to get players that can be on the GLeauge team & see if they can develop.

My ideal trade option would be this:
Orlando:
Okeke + 11 -> Ant

Atlanta:
Collins -> Okeke + 23

Portland:
Ant + 23 -> Collins + 11


I would also love to get Wright out of DC - but I'm not sure what that would take.

[zzaj]

Just did a big ol’ deep dive on Miller—watched (w/Fast Forward) through 12 games over the past few days…my big offensive takeaways:

1–Guy is going to be a great shooter and floor spacer in the NBA. I fully expect him to make an impact there from day one. By my count he shot 70% on open 3s (both off the dribble and C&S). His footwork into his shot is very, very good—Constantly ready.

2) He has a “fake” handle. Simply put, on iso drives he gets zero seperation between he and his defender, and it all has to do with his lower body. There is a ton of wasted motion and inability to use angles to his advantage. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to get to the rim at the NBA level without some changes.

Interesting insight.

What did you think of his defense?

Nothing really stood out to me overall, but I was focusing on the offensive side of the ball--since that's what he's getting sold on. He seems to rely on his wingspan against smaller players, which is not great if you consider the NBA level. He seemed to be in the right places defensively, and had a couple of nice chase downs in the games I watched where I had to rewind and watch again. Reading from the other notes I jotted down..."He doesn't have a great defensive stance--tends to bend at the hips rather than "sit" and focus on being upright", "seems to be a little bit slow with "arms up" once the ball came to his man in the paint."

After watching I mostly worry about his lower body. I don't know if he has high/tight hips or what, but there is a bit of a disconnect between his upper and lower. His upper looks a bit loose and on the slower end, while his lower just looks disorganized.

If I'm honest the player that he reminds me most of? Durant. Durant however has a great side to side cross and knows how to use angles and burst once he creates separation to blow by. Miller has a nice side to side cross, but his lower body and lack of burst ends up creating no advantage in the end...even at the college level, defenders are able to mostly recover or help defense is able to get over in time for good contests. This lead to some REALLY bad forced finishes in the games I watched. I should mention too, Alabama runs basically an NBA spread offense--so coverages and spacing in his offensive footage is really similar to what we'll see in the NBA.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention...in my notes I wrote, "are you an NBA 3 or a 4?" And honestly, that'll be tricky with him. Because of his dribble separation issues, he will be limited against NBA SFs, and because of his lack of bulk he's going to get punished against PFs. If he's on the Blazers, it might be a situation where he plays PF on offense and SF on defense...certainly not ideal.

[JRoy]

Just did a big ol’ deep dive on Miller—watched (w/Fast Forward) through 12 games over the past few days…my big offensive takeaways:

1–Guy is going to be a great shooter and floor spacer in the NBA. I fully expect him to make an impact there from day one. By my count he shot 70% on open 3s (both off the dribble and C&S). His footwork into his shot is very, very good—Constantly ready.

2) He has a “fake” handle. Simply put, on iso drives he gets zero seperation between he and his defender, and it all has to do with his lower body. There is a ton of wasted motion and inability to use angles to his advantage. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to get to the rim at the NBA level without some changes.

Interesting insight.

What did you think of his defense?

Nothing really stood out to me overall, but I was focusing on the offensive side of the ball--since that's what he's getting sold on. He seems to rely on his wingspan against smaller players, which is not great if you consider the NBA level. He seemed to be in the right places defensively, and had a couple of nice chase downs in the games I watched where I had to rewind and watch again. Reading from the other notes I jotted down..."He doesn't have a great defensive stance--tends to bend at the hips rather than "sit" and focus on being upright", "seems to be a little bit slow with "arms up" once the ball came to his man in the paint."

After watching I mostly worry about his lower body. I don't know if he has high/tight hips or what, but there is a bit of a disconnect between his upper and lower. His upper looks a bit loose and on the slower end, while his lower just looks disorganized.

If I'm honest the player that he reminds me most of? Durant. Durant however has a great side to side cross and knows how to use angles and burst once he creates separation to blow by. Miller has a nice side to side cross, but his lower body and lack of burst ends up creating no advantage in the end...even at the college level, defenders are able to mostly recover or help defense is able to get over in time for good contests. This lead to some REALLY bad forced finishes in the games I watched. I should mention too, Alabama runs basically an NBA spread offense--so coverages and spacing in his offensive footage is really similar to what we'll see in the NBA.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention...in my notes I wrote, "are you an NBA 3 or a 4?" And honestly, that'll be tricky with him. Because of his dribble separation issues, he will be limited against NBA SFs, and because of his lack of bulk he's going to get punished against PFs. If he's on the Blazers, it might be a situation where he plays PF on offense and SF on defense...certainly not ideal.

Thank you for that excellent feedback. A lot of people seem high on his potential offense, hadn’t seen much on his defense and this certainly fills in some of the blanks.

I am not as high on Scoot as most are. I see a short pg with a pretty powerful frame but weak shooting; not convinced he is the can’t miss prospect some are calling him.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think Brandon is more MPJ than KD. Likely top tier outcome is somewhere in-between the 2.

My ideal trade option would be this:
Orlando:
Okeke + 11 -> Ant

Atlanta:
Collins -> Okeke + 23

Portland:
Ant + 23 -> Collins + 11

I really like this.

#2 - Scoot Henderson G
#11 - Bilal Coulibaly GF
#43 - Ben Sheppard G

G - Damian Lillard / Scoot Henderson / Keon Johnson
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Scoot Henderson / Ben Sheppard
F - Jerami Grant / Matisse Thybulle / Bilal Coulibaly
F - John Collins / Nas Little / Jabari Walker JR
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Drew Eubanks / Trendon Watford

Minutes -

G - Damian Lillard (35) / Scoot Henderson (13)
G - Shadeon Sharpe (30) / Scoot Henderson (13) / Matisse Thybulle (5)
F - Jerami Grant (16) / Matisse Thybulle (20) / Nas Little (12)
F - John Collins (20) / Jerami Grant (16) / Nas Little (12)
C - Jusuf Nurkic (24) / Drew Eubanks (12) / John Collins (12)

I love that rotation actually. And love the luxury of Bilal, who I think can be a KCP level 3/D guy (But longer w/ more SF ability) w/ Mikal upside.

Think I would roll the dice on this over DDR + PDX FRP for Simons + 23.

[zzaj]

I think Brandon is more MPJ than KD. Likely top tier outcome is somewhere in-between the 2.

Yeah, I should point out that I'm not saying Miller is going to become the player Durant is...simply that the way he moves generally reminds me of him. I haven't watched a ton of MPJ, so I can't really speak to that...but I can see how there would be similarities there, too--based on what I have seen and what I watched of him pre-draft.

[zzaj]

Interesting insight.

What did you think of his defense?

Nothing really stood out to me overall, but I was focusing on the offensive side of the ball--since that's what he's getting sold on. He seems to rely on his wingspan against smaller players, which is not great if you consider the NBA level. He seemed to be in the right places defensively, and had a couple of nice chase downs in the games I watched where I had to rewind and watch again. Reading from the other notes I jotted down..."He doesn't have a great defensive stance--tends to bend at the hips rather than "sit" and focus on being upright", "seems to be a little bit slow with "arms up" once the ball came to his man in the paint."

After watching I mostly worry about his lower body. I don't know if he has high/tight hips or what, but there is a bit of a disconnect between his upper and lower. His upper looks a bit loose and on the slower end, while his lower just looks disorganized.

If I'm honest the player that he reminds me most of? Durant. Durant however has a great side to side cross and knows how to use angles and burst once he creates separation to blow by. Miller has a nice side to side cross, but his lower body and lack of burst ends up creating no advantage in the end...even at the college level, defenders are able to mostly recover or help defense is able to get over in time for good contests. This lead to some REALLY bad forced finishes in the games I watched. I should mention too, Alabama runs basically an NBA spread offense--so coverages and spacing in his offensive footage is really similar to what we'll see in the NBA.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention...in my notes I wrote, "are you an NBA 3 or a 4?" And honestly, that'll be tricky with him. Because of his dribble separation issues, he will be limited against NBA SFs, and because of his lack of bulk he's going to get punished against PFs. If he's on the Blazers, it might be a situation where he plays PF on offense and SF on defense...certainly not ideal.

Thank you for that excellent feedback. A lot of people seem high on his potential offense, hadn’t seen much on his defense and this certainly fills in some of the blanks.

I am not as high on Scoot as most are. I see a short pg with a pretty powerful frame but weak shooting; not convinced he is the can’t miss prospect some are calling him.

I'll say again, I think he'll be a shooter in the NBA from day one. I do think if given the minutes he could be an 15-18ppg scorer in his rookie season.

I'm also not super high on Scoot. I've not watched a ton of him, mostly just because it's hard to find complete games. But I still haven't seen him pass or finish with his left hand. His burst and ability to create separation is elite...I wish I could take that and put in Miller, lol. Of course then Miller would probably be the concensus #2 and Charlotte would take him no question.

Based on what I've seen, Scoot is an Alpha-face of the franchise type. I don't know the situation there very well, but that seems to be something that they lack in Ball. I've come around to a Scoot/Ball pairing. I do think that their skillsets are pretty complimentary...

[m0ng0]

We are getting to the nitty gritty of this, what about level of competition? Is there a difference between the G League and college? I don't watch either...honest question.

[tester551]

We are getting to the nitty gritty of this, what about level of competition? Is there a difference between the G League and college? I don't watch either...honest question.

Yes, there's definitely a talent difference.

G-League is a much better league regarding talent. Its full of players who use to be in the upper echelon of the NCAA... but they are not quite NBA talent.

The unfortunate part of the G-League is that there is a lot of 'HERO' ball where players are selfish.

[zzaj]

We are getting to the nitty gritty of this, what about level of competition? Is there a difference between the G League and college? I don't watch either...honest question.

That's a good question, and it's not something I know anything about, really. In terms of day to day, for both the Gleague or Overtime Elite, I don't know if they are training 8hrs a day or what. I do know that the Gleague has partnered with Arizona State for scholarships, so that's an option for players...although, I'm not sure if any of them are actually taking classes.

I guess I tend to think of them as a "trade" school--where a player can focus on the trade of basketball rather than having to waste time being forced through advanced math or bio-chem classes.

In terms of competition? I have no idea...although, I assume that both leagues are running NBA type offenses and defenses--whereas many Colleges still run lots of different schemes.

[zzaj]

Holy hell…

Watching some Anthony Black games this afternoon. I’m just going to say it now.

Anthony Black is the steal of this draft.

I’ve not seen this kind of upload speed and BBIQ and off the charts feel from a PG prospect since Haliburton. Unbelievable quick vision and pinpoint passing. He’s completely manipulating the D. Also, he’s incredibly strong. He’s going to eat smaller PGs alive. He’s just playing through all kinds of contact in the Arkansas terrible spacing.

Defensively, his length and the way he’s reading the D schemes. He’s going to be a great player. I think he’s better than Scoot.

He’ll absolutely have to improve his pull up shooting off of screens, but I’d draft him over Scoot.

[Norm2953]

Anthony Black is going to be a good player but he's likely a combo guard who like Scoot has a
questionable jumper. I think I'd take Ausar Thompson over him but both a similar players

[zzaj]

Anthony Black is going to be a good player but he's likely a combo guard who like Scoot has a
questionable jumper. I think I'd take Ausar Thompson over him but both a similar players

His shot creation might limit his ability as true PG, but his passing and reads are elite. Better than anyone I’ve seen in this draft. He’s twice the PG Simons is. I’ve watched what I can of the Thompsons, but I’d take Black over both. His defense is going to be Lonzo Ball-ish, and better than anybody else I’ve looked at including Jarace Walker and Hendricks. Again, he’ll be the steal of the draft IMO.

[The Sebastian Express]

Anthony Black is going to be a good player but he's likely a combo guard who like Scoot has a
questionable jumper. I think I'd take Ausar Thompson over him but both a similar players

His shot creation might limit his ability as true PG, but his passing and reads are elite. Better than anyone I’ve seen in this draft. He’s twice the PG Simons is. I’ve watched what I can of the Thompsons, but I’d take Black over both. His defense is going to be Lonzo Ball-ish, and better than anybody else I’ve looked at including Jarace Walker and Hendricks. Again, he’ll be the steal of the draft IMO.

Clyde over on the draft board is a big fan of Black and has him, iirc, number three on his board behind Wemby and Scoot.

[zzaj]

Anthony Black is going to be a good player but he's likely a combo guard who like Scoot has a
questionable jumper. I think I'd take Ausar Thompson over him but both a similar players

His shot creation might limit his ability as true PG, but his passing and reads are elite. Better than anyone I’ve seen in this draft. He’s twice the PG Simons is. I’ve watched what I can of the Thompsons, but I’d take Black over both. His defense is going to be Lonzo Ball-ish, and better than anybody else I’ve looked at including Jarace Walker and Hendricks. Again, he’ll be the steal of the draft IMO.

Clyde over on the draft board is a big fan of Black and has him, iirc, number three on his board behind Wemby and Scoot.

I should go over there more. lol Honestly, I came in a skeptic (I'm hard on passing/non-shooting types) but the more I've watched, the more Black's play has swayed me on both ends of the floor. So far I've watched vs. Louisville, Creighton, Oklahoma, and Auburn. I have one more day to watch tomorrow. Interestingly, I'll be rewatching both Alabama games that I already watched for Miller. Even though Black didn't have good games, there was enough there that made me want to look at him more closely. That's why I'm looking at him now...

I want to clarify my comments on Black's defense. When I say that I see him as "better" than guys like Walker and Hendricks, I'm factoring in that Black will truly be a 3 position defender at the NBA level--potentially 4 depending on who the PF is. He has the strong base to hold his own on switches vs. a lot of stretch PFs. And can absolutely switch between PG/SG/SFs. Walker and Hendricks are two position defenders, maybe 3 depending on the opp.

And yeah, if I am the Blazers and Charlotte takes Miller...I'm thinking really hard about that #3 pick. Sharpe's to the basket finishing instincts paired with Black's elite ability to misdirect and warp defenses on the drive would be REALLY fun to watch.

[JustBuzzin]

Just did a big ol’ deep dive on Miller—watched (w/Fast Forward) through 12 games over the past few days…my big offensive takeaways:

1–Guy is going to be a great shooter and floor spacer in the NBA. I fully expect him to make an impact there from day one. By my count he shot 70% on open 3s (both off the dribble and C&S). His footwork into his shot is very, very good—Constantly ready.

2) He has a “fake” handle. Simply put, on iso drives he gets zero seperation between he and his defender, and it all has to do with his lower body. There is a ton of wasted motion and inability to use angles to his advantage. I don’t believe he’s going to be able to get to the rim at the NBA level without some changes.

Interesting insight.

What did you think of his defense?

Nothing really stood out to me overall, but I was focusing on the offensive side of the ball--since that's what he's getting sold on. He seems to rely on his wingspan against smaller players, which is not great if you consider the NBA level. He seemed to be in the right places defensively, and had a couple of nice chase downs in the games I watched where I had to rewind and watch again. Reading from the other notes I jotted down..."He doesn't have a great defensive stance--tends to bend at the hips rather than "sit" and focus on being upright", "seems to be a little bit slow with "arms up" once the ball came to his man in the paint."

After watching I mostly worry about his lower body. I don't know if he has high/tight hips or what, but there is a bit of a disconnect between his upper and lower. His upper looks a bit loose and on the slower end, while his lower just looks disorganized.

If I'm honest the player that he reminds me most of? Durant. Durant however has a great side to side cross and knows how to use angles and burst once he creates separation to blow by. Miller has a nice side to side cross, but his lower body and lack of burst ends up creating no advantage in the end...even at the college level, defenders are able to mostly recover or help defense is able to get over in time for good contests. This lead to some REALLY bad forced finishes in the games I watched. I should mention too, Alabama runs basically an NBA spread offense--so coverages and spacing in his offensive footage is really similar to what we'll see in the NBA.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention...in my notes I wrote, "are you an NBA 3 or a 4?" And honestly, that'll be tricky with him. Because of his dribble separation issues, he will be limited against NBA SFs, and because of his lack of bulk he's going to get punished against PFs. If he's on the Blazers, it might be a situation where he plays PF on offense and SF on defense...certainly not ideal.

Brandon Miller is more Danny Granger if we being honest.

I also watched his film as a Charlotte fan.

Granger in his prime was pretty damn good. In today's NBA getting to the rim will not be a huge deal for Miller. He can shoot the ball and that will help with his limited explosiveness.


I think we go Brandon Miller at #2.

[Pattycakes]

Man we have like 8 diff players people are tossing around at that #3 spot this is crazy lol