BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[KingCat]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

[wilson115]

Well Ant actually handles the ball most of the time and unlike Brandon Miller most of his looks aren't assisted. I'm guessing you missed that part lol. Quit misrepresenting stats. This is tiring.

83% of Brandon Miller's threes assisted.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

[Giddf]

So Miller averaged 6.5 points more then 2nd guy.
and 9 points more than 3rd guy.

but Scoot was one that was loaded up when he was 2nd scorer.
Jenkins was 17.9 ppg
Scoot was 17.6 ppg
Miller was 16.9 ppg.

but you argument is that Miller played on a balanced team... meanwhile Scoot was loaded up on.

Teams score less in college, yes.
Scoot was the only creator on his team and nobody could shoot. He was definitely loaded up on.

[JMAC3]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances.

Question: Do you think that 15 points on 11 shots is a bad game? or 18 points on 15 shots is a bad game?
Is shooting percentage all that matters?

When a player shoots as many threes as Miller does the game to game % might look worse.
2/9 from three looks really bad in a boxscore but literally happens all the time in the NBA.
That and I feel like we are massively ignoring if he shot free throws.

Uconn he had TS% of 49.1%
Tenn he had TS% of 58.1%

People are posting those games like he played awful.

[Giddf]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

I don't think Miller has shown higher highs either. Scoot got 28 and 9 by going right at the best defensive prospect of all time and a team that is probably going to win the LNB Pro A. The best pro league in France. That is way better competition than South Carolina.

[Giddf]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances.

Question: Do you think that 15 points on 11 shots is a bad game? or 18 points on 15 shots is a bad game?
Is shooting percentage all that matters?

When a player shoots as many threes as Miller does the game to game % might look worse.
2/9 from three looks really bad in a boxscore but literally happens all the time in the NBA.
That and I feel like we are massively ignoring if he shot free throws.

Uconn he had TS% of 49.1%
Tenn he had TS% of 58.1%

People are posting those games like he played awful.

I don't think he played awful. But he hasn't had a truly dominant scoring game against a good defense. It's mostly mediocre scoring performances with some truly awful ones mixed in. For me that sheds doubt on his ability to be an elite scorer at the next level. Which many project him to be. I think that's reasonable.

[KingCat]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances.

Question: Do you think that 15 points on 11 shots is a bad game? or 18 points on 15 shots is a bad game?
Is shooting percentage all that matters?

When a player shoots as many threes as Miller does the game to game % might look worse.
2/9 from three looks really bad in a boxscore but literally happens all the time in the NBA.
That and I feel like we are massively ignoring if he shot free throws.

Uconn he had TS% of 49.1%
Tenn he had TS% of 58.1%

People are posting those games like he played awful.

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to the free throw stats because I feel having a knack to draw fouls at a college level doesn't necessarily translate to being able to do that at the NBA level for a number of reasons (like going aganist much smarter defenders, the game being called much different at the NBA level, etc).

Have you looked up stats which show players that got to the line well in college were able to do that in the NBA as well? If so, then that would definitely ease my concerns for Miller's self creation in the NBA.

[wilson115]

Little more context:
AT THE RIM
85-147 57.8%
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

According to Synergy Sports, Miller was 33-43 (76.7%) on his transition rim attempts this year and only 33-84 (39.3%) in the half-court. Yes, 39% at the rim in the half-court, with only 3 dunks. Fewer than 14% of his overall field goal attempts were taken at the bucket — and that comes in one of the best-spaced offenses in college basketball under Nate Oats.

https://theboxandone.substack.com/p/brandon-miller-2023-nba-draft-scouting

[JMAC3]

Well Ant actually handles the ball most of the time and unlike Brandon Miller most of his looks aren't assisted. I'm guessing you missed that part lol. Quit misrepresenting stats. This is tiring.

83% of Brandon Miller's threes assisted.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

cool?

Miller was 43.2% efg vs top 50 teams
25% of his 2s at rim were assisted

Anthony Black
was 43.5 efg% vs top 50 teams
37% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Nick Smith
40% efg vs top 50 teams
29% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Taylor Hendricks
shot 9% lower vs top 50 teams than he normally did.
Clearly he sees a big drop vs better teams. better avoid him too.

[Giddf]

Well Ant actually handles the ball most of the time and unlike Brandon Miller most of his looks aren't assisted. I'm guessing you missed that part lol. Quit misrepresenting stats. This is tiring.

83% of Brandon Miller's threes assisted.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

cool?

Miller was 43.2% efg vs top 50 teams
25% of his 2s at rim were assisted

Anthony Black
was 43.5 efg% vs top 50 teams
37% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Nick Smith
40% efg vs top 50 teams
29% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Taylor Hendricks
shot 9% lower vs top 50 teams than he normally did.
Clearly he sees a big drop vs better teams. better avoid him too.

Well none of those dudes are being projected at 2. And all of them are a year or more younger than Miller. I guess that's the problem here. Maybe we shouldn't use our 2nd pick on Brandon Miller.

[KingCat]

Well Ant actually handles the ball most of the time and unlike Brandon Miller most of his looks aren't assisted. I'm guessing you missed that part lol. Quit misrepresenting stats. This is tiring.

83% of Brandon Miller's threes assisted.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

cool?

Miller was 43.2% efg vs top 50 teams
25% of his 2s at rim were assisted

Anthony Black
was 43.5 efg% vs top 50 teams
37% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Nick Smith
40% efg vs top 50 teams
29% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Taylor Hendricks
shot 9% lower vs top 50 teams than he normally did.
Clearly he sees a big drop vs better teams. better avoid him too.

I agree. We shouldn't use our 2 pick on anyone on this list

[JMAC3]

83% of Brandon Miller's threes assisted.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2023&p=Brandon%20Miller&t=Alabama

cool?

Miller was 43.2% efg vs top 50 teams
25% of his 2s at rim were assisted

Anthony Black
was 43.5 efg% vs top 50 teams
37% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Nick Smith
40% efg vs top 50 teams
29% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Taylor Hendricks
shot 9% lower vs top 50 teams than he normally did.
Clearly he sees a big drop vs better teams. better avoid him too.

I agree. We shouldn't use our 2 pick on anyone on this list

100% we should draft the guy that we have no idea if he would of struggled vs top 50 teams because we have no data. Seems like the surefire way to go in this situation lol.

You guys are acting like percentages going down vs good teams is something unheard of.. then I found 3 without even trying hard lol. Talk about overthinking.

[KingCat]

cool?

Miller was 43.2% efg vs top 50 teams
25% of his 2s at rim were assisted

Anthony Black
was 43.5 efg% vs top 50 teams
37% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Nick Smith
40% efg vs top 50 teams
29% of his 2s at the rim were assisted
Probably should avoid him too. He can't get it done vs good competition either.

Taylor Hendricks
shot 9% lower vs top 50 teams than he normally did.
Clearly he sees a big drop vs better teams. better avoid him too.

I agree. We shouldn't use our 2 pick on anyone on this list

100% we should draft the guy that we have no idea if he would of struggled vs top 50 teams because we have no data. Seems like the surefire way to go in this situation lol.

You guys are acting like percentages going down vs good teams is something unheard of.. then I found 3 without even trying hard lol. Talk about overthinking.

Take a joke blud. I still like Miller and wouldn't mind if we take him. It's just that your self own was too funny not to point out and comparing to guys we have no chance of taking isn't a convincing argument.

I have yet to find someone with as dramatic of a fall off as Miller on barttorvik, but I'm still looking.

[SWedd523]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

[KingCat]

Also Miller's lesser percentages aren't the main cusp of the issue.

Imo, Miller biggest flag is his inconsistencies in making space vs better defenders... he struggles more vs good team. Is that cause of his space making struggles? If it is, that is extremely concerning when jumping to the next level. If he just so happens to shoot worse vs good teams, then it's not something I would really worry about.

[Giddf]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

That "undrafted guy" is better than (conservatively) 90% of the competition Miller faced in college.

[KingCat]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

I mean are we gonna act like all of Miller's defenders are world beaters?

This once again gets into the argument about G League vs College. I know how I feel about it and I can guess how you may feel.

One of the mods already requested to just take this argument to the draft board cause no one is going to get convinced here.

[SWedd523]

Scoot shot under 40% from the floor in as many games (10) as he shot over 50%.

Can't take Miller because his efficiency drops against good competition, but we can take the guy shooting ~38% in roughly half of his outings?

Am I drunk or is there some cognitive dissonance involved here?

His best game was a 27 point outing against some guy named Jahmi'us Ramsey.

He's a grown man too

(just kidding he's college aged.. turned 21 today)

[KingCat]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

That "undrafted guy" is better than (conservatively) 90% of the competition Miller faced in college.

They also fail to consider that these undrafted guys have had additional years to completely focus on the game of basketball in a high paced and pro environment so they are likely better players now than they were in college.

But again, out of respect to the mods I don't wanna make this into another college vs g league argument (sorry mods)

[SWedd523]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

I mean are we gonna act like all of Miller's defenders are world beaters?

This once again gets into the argument about G League vs College. I know how I feel about it and I can guess how you may feel.

One of the mods already requested to just take this argument to the draft board cause no one is going to get convinced here.

I think it's ridiculous assertion from the get-go. Some half-ass attempt to make an argument that really doesn't hold water.

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Okay.. sure. So then shouldn't it be easier to project his numbers in the NBA since he's playing against pros in the G League?

Please explain to me what I'm supposed to project at the varsity level from a guy shooting 33% against the Jeff Dowtins and Brandon Williams of the world?