BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[SWedd523]

The flat track bullying accusation for Miller comes from the fact that he looks like the next PG 13 vs bad teams, but then looked like the next Ammo vs good teams.

I don't really see how the bullying accusation applies to Scoot as his performance was fairly consistent throughout the year no matter the competition.

Scoots performance remained pretty consistent throughout the year in comparison to Miller's up and down shooting performances. If you want to spin that into being an argument that Miller shows higher highs then be my guest.

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

That "undrafted guy" is better than (conservatively) 90% of the competition Miller faced in college.

Jeff Dowtin averaged 14 points as a senior at Rhode Island Bro. He didn't even make it to a high level D1 team lol.

Why are we acting like the majority of these G League guys are right there with the NBA guys?

I make more money than most of these professional basketball players

[JMAC3]

Once again the gleague vs the college argument which has no statistical backing.

It would be one thing if we had evidence of college players struggling in the gleague as rookies. It is the opposite.

Or if guys who went Gleague then NBA were considerably more prepared and effective then guys who went college route. Doesn't seem to be the case.

Basically 70% of the gleague is guys most NBA fans have never heard of... hence this

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I think I have heard of 3 of these guys and I am a pretty knowledgeable college and pro basketball fan...

Basically, no statistical evidence that Gleague is a better level to develop at then college other than "I said so"

[KingCat]

So consistently.. worse? I mean he didn't exactly put up efficient numbers across the board. Are we going to punish one guy for doing well against worse competition and not the guy who did mediocre against undrafted matchups?

Is it just because they're "grown men"?

I'm trying to reconcile the logic here. 40% against an undrafted guy and we're supposed to extrapolate him to do better against real pros?

I mean are we gonna act like all of Miller's defenders are world beaters?

This once again gets into the argument about G League vs College. I know how I feel about it and I can guess how you may feel.

One of the mods already requested to just take this argument to the draft board cause no one is going to get convinced here.

I think it's ridiculous assertion from the get-go. Some half-ass attempt to make an argument that really doesn't hold water.

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Okay.. sure. So then shouldn't it be easier to project his numbers in the NBA since he's playing against pros in the G League?

Please explain to me what I'm supposed to project at the varsity level from a guy shooting 33% against the Jeff Dowtins and Brandon Williams of the world?

Hey man I said it before and I'll say it again. I prefer the G league as a way of preparing young men for the NBA then I do the NCAA. I think it prepares them better by allowing them to only focus on basketball and gives them a taste of professional life. I also feel the competition in the g league is better. You think that's laughable and that's OK. Till we see college teams play aganist g league teams, no one can be truly proven right.

Probably not the answer you wanted since you seem the type to love to argue, but it's the best I'll do since I don't want the Brandon Miller thread to become a g league vs college mud slinger.

[SWedd523]

You didn't even answer my question, blud

[JMAC3]

I mean are we gonna act like all of Miller's defenders are world beaters?

This once again gets into the argument about G League vs College. I know how I feel about it and I can guess how you may feel.

One of the mods already requested to just take this argument to the draft board cause no one is going to get convinced here.

I think it's ridiculous assertion from the get-go. Some half-ass attempt to make an argument that really doesn't hold water.

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Okay.. sure. So then shouldn't it be easier to project his numbers in the NBA since he's playing against pros in the G League?

Please explain to me what I'm supposed to project at the varsity level from a guy shooting 33% against the Jeff Dowtins and Brandon Williams of the world?

Hey man I said it before and I'll say it again. I prefer the G league as a way of preparing young men for the NBA then I do the NCAA. I think it prepares them better by allowing them to only focus on basketball and gives them a taste of professional life. I also feel the competition in the g league is better. You think that's laughable and that's OK. Till we see college teams play aganist g league teams, no one can be truly proven right.

Probably not the answer you wanted since you seem the type to love to argue, but it's the best I'll do since I don't want the Brandon Miller thread to become a g league vs college mud slinger.

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

[Giddf]

I think it's ridiculous assertion from the get-go. Some half-ass attempt to make an argument that really doesn't hold water.

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Okay.. sure. So then shouldn't it be easier to project his numbers in the NBA since he's playing against pros in the G League?

Please explain to me what I'm supposed to project at the varsity level from a guy shooting 33% against the Jeff Dowtins and Brandon Williams of the world?

Hey man I said it before and I'll say it again. I prefer the G league as a way of preparing young men for the NBA then I do the NCAA. I think it prepares them better by allowing them to only focus on basketball and gives them a taste of professional life. I also feel the competition in the g league is better. You think that's laughable and that's OK. Till we see college teams play aganist g league teams, no one can be truly proven right.

Probably not the answer you wanted since you seem the type to love to argue, but it's the best I'll do since I don't want the Brandon Miller thread to become a g league vs college mud slinger.

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

You can argue the Ignite doesn't develop players blah blah blah. But the reality is the Ignite are picking up as much talent as they have ever in their short existence. Matas Buzelis projected #1 pick is going to Ignite next year, Ron Holland #2 highschool player and projected lottery pick is going to Ignite, Dink Pate, Thierry Darland. Are all potential first-round talents. Prospects obviously think highly of Ignite.

[KingCat]

You're not going to solve the "Is GLeague better competition than college" debate here, take it to the general board if you're interested in deep diving into that. Finding a couple guys who scored more in G league than college absent all other context is not an argument winner.

Ben's request from like 10 pages down.

It's just too bad that pointing out Miller's struggles vs good teams leads to uncomparable whataboutism.

I do like JMac's point about Miller's ability to get to the line though. Could be a good sign of his craftiness

[JMAC3]

Hey man I said it before and I'll say it again. I prefer the G league as a way of preparing young men for the NBA then I do the NCAA. I think it prepares them better by allowing them to only focus on basketball and gives them a taste of professional life. I also feel the competition in the g league is better. You think that's laughable and that's OK. Till we see college teams play aganist g league teams, no one can be truly proven right.

Probably not the answer you wanted since you seem the type to love to argue, but it's the best I'll do since I don't want the Brandon Miller thread to become a g league vs college mud slinger.

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

You can argue the Ignite doesn't develop players blah blah blah. But the reality is the Ignite are picking up as much talent as they have ever in their short existence. Matas Buzelis projected #1 pick is going to Ignite next year, Ron Holland #2 highschool player and projected lottery pick is going to Ignite, Dink Pate, Thierry Darland. Are all potential first-round talents. Prospects obviously think highly of Ignite.

They must be reading these draft boards and seeing how much more credit you get for playing grown men lol.

So far the gleague crop has been ass though.

[JMAC3]

Khris Middleton had 2 dunks his last year in college vs Brandon Miller having 22
Khris Middleton had 17 blocks in 3 years in college vs Brandon Miller having 32 this year.

Middleton averages 11 dunks an NBA season for his career.

If I were Brandon Miller and people compared my athleticism to him I would be disrespected.

[wilson115]

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

One of those guys:

But the real headliner of his offensive game is his passing (also a byproduct of his feel). One of the best publicly-available measures of a player’s passing ability is Ben Taylor’s Passer Rating metric (an estimate of a player’s passing ability on an ‘approximately’ 1-10 scale).

Guess who is ranked number one among all rookies in that stat? No, it’s not any of the rookies we name-dropped in the introduction. It’s Dyson Daniels. His 8.4 Passer Rating is 12th in the entire NBA (96th percentile).

https://pelicandebrief.com/2023/03/24/dyson-daniels-breakdown-pelicans-get-hidden-gem-2023-class/

The Pelicans allowed 106.7 points per 100 possessions with Daniels on the floor, a number that jumped to 112.7 points per 100 possessions when he sat. Daniels graded out near the top of the Pelicans roster in advanced metrics such as defensive box plus-minus and defensive estimated plus-minus.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/dyson-daniels-knows-theres-room-for-growth-after-rookie-season/article_88ce7c06-e9d4-11ed-bb22-430f06c7247c.html

Another one:

When looking at the 14 games he played on the season that involved Hardy receiving 20 or more minutes, he averaged 18.9 points and 2.5 assists, while shooting 46 percent overall and 42.9 percent from 3-point range.

When re-drafting the 2022 class, The Athletic's Sam Vecenie placed Hardy at No. 17 overall — 20 selections higher than where he actually was selected. He was the first player that was actually selected din the second-round pick to be re-drafted.

https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/dallas-mavs-jaden-hardy-skyrockets-re-draft-nba-2022-class

[LofJ]

Speaking of the G-League I wish we'd invest more resources there. Other teams are hiring legitimate coaches that could get head coaching jobs with decent college programs. Meanwhile we have a dude that sounds about as intelligent as my highschool baseball/weight lifting coach in Surenkamp.

No offense to him, I'm sure he'd be a great high school teacher/coach. But he doesn't seem like he belongs in the big leagues.

[JMAC3]

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

One of those guys:

But the real headliner of his offensive game is his passing (also a byproduct of his feel). One of the best publicly-available measures of a player’s passing ability is Ben Taylor’s Passer Rating metric (an estimate of a player’s passing ability on an ‘approximately’ 1-10 scale).

Guess who is ranked number one among all rookies in that stat? No, it’s not any of the rookies we name-dropped in the introduction. It’s Dyson Daniels. His 8.4 Passer Rating is 12th in the entire NBA (96th percentile).

https://pelicandebrief.com/2023/03/24/dyson-daniels-breakdown-pelicans-get-hidden-gem-2023-class/

The Pelicans allowed 106.7 points per 100 possessions with Daniels on the floor, a number that jumped to 112.7 points per 100 possessions when he sat. Daniels graded out near the top of the Pelicans roster in advanced metrics such as defensive box plus-minus and defensive estimated plus-minus.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/dyson-daniels-knows-theres-room-for-growth-after-rookie-season/article_88ce7c06-e9d4-11ed-bb22-430f06c7247c.html

Averaged 3.8 ppg and had a TS% of 50.3 and was 9th in minutes played for a team that's best two players missed 90 games and missed the playoffs. (11th in mpg)

His true shooting ranked 195th out of 199 players.

Great rookie year lol. Gleague really set him up.

[JMAC3]

Hardy was the #2 player in the nation for his class. Was picked 37th.

Gross. He would of made a bunch more money if he pulled a Shaedon Sharpe and didn't play.
Hard to say Gleague was a benefit for him.

[Giddf]

Kuminga, Dyson, Brandon Todd, Michael Foster Jr, Daishen Nix and Jaden Hardy would all probably go the college route if they could do it again I bet. Really hard to scream success for any one of these guys.

One of those guys:

But the real headliner of his offensive game is his passing (also a byproduct of his feel). One of the best publicly-available measures of a player’s passing ability is Ben Taylor’s Passer Rating metric (an estimate of a player’s passing ability on an ‘approximately’ 1-10 scale).

Guess who is ranked number one among all rookies in that stat? No, it’s not any of the rookies we name-dropped in the introduction. It’s Dyson Daniels. His 8.4 Passer Rating is 12th in the entire NBA (96th percentile).

https://pelicandebrief.com/2023/03/24/dyson-daniels-breakdown-pelicans-get-hidden-gem-2023-class/

The Pelicans allowed 106.7 points per 100 possessions with Daniels on the floor, a number that jumped to 112.7 points per 100 possessions when he sat. Daniels graded out near the top of the Pelicans roster in advanced metrics such as defensive box plus-minus and defensive estimated plus-minus.

https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/dyson-daniels-knows-theres-room-for-growth-after-rookie-season/article_88ce7c06-e9d4-11ed-bb22-430f06c7247c.html

Averaged 3.8 ppg and had a TS% of 50.3 and was 9th in minutes played for a team that's best two players missed 90 games and missed the playoffs. (11th in mpg)

His true shooting ranked 195th out of 199 players.

Great rookie year lol. Gleague really set him up.

Jaden Hardy averaged 29.5 pts on .571 TS per 100 this year. And he was a player who struggled with Ignite and saw his stock fall because of that.

[wilson115]

Averaged 3.8 ppg and had a TS% of 50.3 and was 9th in minutes played for a team that's best two players missed 90 games and missed the playoffs. (11th in mpg)

His true shooting ranked 195th out of 199 players.

Great rookie year lol. Gleague really set him up.

Daniels’ season began promising, as the rookie even garnered 11 starts in the early portion of the season when the team was still in the mix for home-court advantage in the Western Conference Playoffs (man, that feels like a lifetime ago).

However, his great start was derailed after an ankle injury against the Denver Nuggets in late January caused him to be sidelined for 12 straight games. During that time, the Pelicans acquired Josh Richardson from the San Antonio Spurs at the trade deadline.

So, when Daniels returned from his injury in late February, the crowded wing/forward room (one that included Richardson, Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy III, Herbert Jones, and Naji Marshall) diminished his role, making it hard for him to get consistent minutes.

https://pelicandebrief.com/2023/04/25/dyson-daniels-snubbed-rookie-year/

"Gleague really set him up."

Enough to go #8 in the lottery.

[LofJ]

Hardy was the #2 player in the nation for his class. Was picked 37th.

Gross. He would of made a bunch more money if he pulled a Shaedon Sharpe and didn't play.
Hard to say Gleague was a benefit for him.

It's true that the g-league isn't putting players in a position to succeed. And its track record for drafted players is spotty at best with Hardy being the best success story. He should have been drafted earlier and be making a lot more money. Meanwhile other guys like Dyson, Kuminga, Green, etc. have been struggling. It's still early for all of them though, so hard to tell how they'll ultimately turn out.

[JMAC3]

Averaged 3.8 ppg and had a TS% of 50.3 and was 9th in minutes played for a team that's best two players missed 90 games and missed the playoffs. (11th in mpg)

His true shooting ranked 195th out of 199 players.

Great rookie year lol. Gleague really set him up.

Daniels’ season began promising, as the rookie even garnered 11 starts in the early portion of the season when the team was still in the mix for home-court advantage in the Western Conference Playoffs (man, that feels like a lifetime ago).

However, his great start was derailed after an ankle injury against the Denver Nuggets in late January caused him to be sidelined for 12 straight games. During that time, the Pelicans acquired Josh Richardson from the San Antonio Spurs at the trade deadline.

So, when Daniels returned from his injury in late February, the crowded wing/forward room (one that included Richardson, Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy III, Herbert Jones, and Naji Marshall) diminished his role, making it hard for him to get consistent minutes.

https://pelicandebrief.com/2023/04/25/dyson-daniels-snubbed-rookie-year/

"Gleague really set him up."

Enough to go #8 in the lottery.

Do you think he had a good year for the 8th pick? Yes or no?

[wilson115]

Do you think he had a good year for the 8th pick? Yes or no?

Objectively, yes. He was projected as someone who could supply passing and defense but needed to work on his shot. The projection was accurate. He just ran into bad luck.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/dyson-daniels-scouting-report-nba-draft-2022-strengths-weaknesses/vjerlzr8tklbmz7gszgjhze2

[yosemiteben]

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

[Liver_Pooty]

The G League is nothing but a no defense all offense league. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the NCAA, but players like Kai and Bouk can go down there and tear it up and barely get playing time for one of the worst teams in the league (ours)