BrandHIM Miller: The Brandon Miller Thread

[JMAC3]

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

Do you think Brandon Miller would of struggled in the gleague?
I think he would of busted their ass. Just like if we draft him and he plays 10 games in the gleague next year I expect him to bust their ass.

Leonard Miller busted their ass and might not even go in the lottery.
Michael Foster Jr busted their ass and didn't even get drafted.

The leader in minutes played in the Gleague is Michael Mulder who started 2 college games and 2.9 ppg at Kentucky
Grant Golden played 4th most mins and played 6 years of college basketball.
Zavier Simpson was 4 year college player who averaged 7 ppg in college over 4 years
Jordan Bowden was 4 year guy that averaged 10 ppg over 4 years of college.
Darius Days was 4 year guy who averaged 10 ppg over 4 year of college.

These are the type of guys that play most nights, all top 10 in mins played this year.

Basically, the gleague is full of avg college starters for the most part. Yeah, they probably have improved as they have gotten older, but the whole these are college superstars talk is a bit overblown.

one more for fun.
Justin Minaya was 25th in mins, played 5 years of college and never averaged more than 7.8 ppg in college.

[yosemiteben]

The G League is nothing but a no defense all offense league. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the NCAA, but players like Kai and Bouk can go down there and tear it up and barely get playing time for one of the worst teams in the league (ours)

Have you ever actually looked up offensive efficiency stats for G league teams?

NBA: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=OFF_RATING

G league: https://stats.gleague.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1

I don't see statistical evidence that the G league has higher offensive efficiency than the NBA. Median ORTG and DRTG are both higher in the NBA.

Given that reality, what statistical evidence are you looking at to support this idea that the G league is a no defense all offense league but the NBA is not?

[JMAC3]

The Gleague... Old College Role Players

What if I told you, you could average 8 ppg in college and be a professional basketball player. (30 for 30 music starts to play)

[yosemiteben]

Basically, the gleague is full of avg college starters for the most part. Yeah, they probably have improved as they have gotten older, but the whole these are college superstars talk is a bit overblown.

So Miller faced actual college aged players, the vast majority of whom will not be talented enough to get rostered in the G league. By contrast, the G league is full of college starters who then became full time professionals while physically developing in full time training programs.

Yet the talent / competition level is supposed to be higher in college.

I just don't buy it at all.

[JMAC3]

Basically, the gleague is full of avg college starters for the most part. Yeah, they probably have improved as they have gotten older, but the whole these are college superstars talk is a bit overblown.

So Miller faced actual college aged players, the vast majority of whom will not be talented enough to get rostered in the G league. By contrast, the G league is full of college starters who then became full time professionals while physically developing in full time training programs.

Yet the talent / competition level is supposed to be higher in college.

I just don't buy it at all.

Yes... Miller played young avg starters, but also he played against real future NBA starters.
Scoot played older avg starters, but very few actual NBA starters.

[SWedd523]

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

Go look at my original quote of his last 5 matchups. 22yo Brandon Williams (twice), 22yo DJ Carton, 23yo Devon Dotson, 26yo Jeff Dowtin

4/5 guys could conceivably still be on college rosters.

I'm fully aware of the G League as a whole. insert eye roll emoji. I think you're massively, massively overstating the level of direct competition. If Scoot can't score on Devon Dotson, what is he going to do when Jrue, Caruso, Dort, etc line up on him?

Let me guess, "it's not that simple" right? I know it's not. That's my point against the flat track bully comments directed towards Miller.

[yosemiteben]

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

Go look at my original quote of his last 5 matchups. 22yo Brandon Williams (twice), 22yo DJ Carton, 23yo Devon Dotson, 26yo Jeff Dowtin

4/5 guys could conceivably still be on college rosters.

I'm fully aware of the G League as a whole. insert eye roll emoji. I think you're massively, massively overstating the level of direct competition. If Scoot can't score on Devon Dotson, what is he going to do when Jrue, Caruso, Dort, etc line up on him?

Let me guess, "it's not that simple" right? I know it's not. That's my point against the flat track bully comments directed towards Miller.

My bad, didn't realize you were referring just to that 5 game sample size and not to the G league as a whole.

[yosemiteben]

Basically, the gleague is full of avg college starters for the most part. Yeah, they probably have improved as they have gotten older, but the whole these are college superstars talk is a bit overblown.

So Miller faced actual college aged players, the vast majority of whom will not be talented enough to get rostered in the G league. By contrast, the G league is full of college starters who then became full time professionals while physically developing in full time training programs.

Yet the talent / competition level is supposed to be higher in college.

I just don't buy it at all.

Yes... Miller played young avg starters, but also he played against real future NBA starters.
Scoot played older avg starters, but very few actual NBA starters.

Cool. Neither of us is even close to budging on this so probs best to just move on and if you want to deep dive on it, take it to the draft board or general board.

[Giddf]

Scoot didn't put up world beater numbers in the G-League. I guess all those 20-22 year old grown (undrafted) grown men are just great competition.

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

Go look at my original quote of his last 5 matchups. 22yo Brandon Williams (twice), 22yo DJ Carton, 23yo Devon Dotson, 26yo Jeff Dowtin

4/5 guys could conceivably still be on college rosters.

I'm fully aware of the G League as a whole. insert eye roll emoji. I think you're massively, massively overstating the level of direct competition. If Scoot can't score on Devon Dotson, what is he going to do when Jrue, Caruso, Dort, etc line up on him?

Let me guess, "it's not that simple" right? I know it's not. That's my point against the flat track bully comments directed towards Miller.

Layne Vashro (now senior analyst for the denver nuggets) published some great research years ago on how strong various leagues were relative to each other.

https://fansided.com/2015/11/06/deep-dives-measuring-level-of-competition-around-the-world/

Keep in mind this was over 8 years ago. When it was less commonplace for teams to send draft picks to the gleague, and the two-way contract did not exist. There are also many more multi-year nba/international veterans playing in the gleague as opposed to years ago as well. The talent and competition in the gleague has only improved signficantly since then. And it still graded out as more meaningful to nba projection than the NCAA.

[SWedd523]

Think this is just a good example of how you don't really understand the G league.

If I'm reading this spreadsheet (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=AGE&dir=-1) correctly, less than 25% of rostered players in the G league are under the age of 23.

Go look at my original quote of his last 5 matchups. 22yo Brandon Williams (twice), 22yo DJ Carton, 23yo Devon Dotson, 26yo Jeff Dowtin

4/5 guys could conceivably still be on college rosters.

I'm fully aware of the G League as a whole. insert eye roll emoji. I think you're massively, massively overstating the level of direct competition. If Scoot can't score on Devon Dotson, what is he going to do when Jrue, Caruso, Dort, etc line up on him?

Let me guess, "it's not that simple" right? I know it's not. That's my point against the flat track bully comments directed towards Miller.

My bad, didn't realize you were referring just to that 5 game sample size and not to the G league as a whole.

Scoot over to the Scoot thread if you want. I made a larger (more on topic in re Scoot) post

[JustBuzzin]

Im watching the film and I just got a feeling Brandon Miller will be a better pro.

6'9 wing who has shown ability to create off the dribble and already has a 3pt shot. Im sorry but we can't pass that up.

The thing people are forgetting is we already have a dynamic pg in Melo. Scoot will not reach his full potential playing next to Melo. I get Scoot has more popularity, but from a basketball standpoint Miller simply is a better player imo.

I can see why the mocks have us taking Miller. Miller/Scoot are on the same level as a talent. We are right to draft for best fit in this scenario.

[Liver_Pooty]

The G League is nothing but a no defense all offense league. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the NCAA, but players like Kai and Bouk can go down there and tear it up and barely get playing time for one of the worst teams in the league (ours)

Have you ever actually looked up offensive efficiency stats for G league teams?

NBA: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=OFF_RATING

G league: https://stats.gleague.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1

I don't see statistical evidence that the G league has higher offensive efficiency than the NBA. Median ORTG and DRTG are both higher in the NBA.

Given that reality, what statistical evidence are you looking at to support this idea that the G league is a no defense all offense league but the NBA is not?

I never said anything about the NBA. I have literally no stats. All I know is that kids can go to the g league and have nba jam type stats that they would never have in college, or perhaps even highschool.

[JDR720]

Arguing that college is better than the G-League is like arguing that Alabama (or I guess Georgia these days) are better than the worst NFL team.

Scoot's best game was against Wembayama's French team. Millers best was against a 13 win SC team.

Alabama's last couple recruiting classes:

2021
1 five star
2 four stars

2022
2 five stars (including Miller)
2 four stars

Alabama have plenty of talent. If Miller needs more help to play well against good college teams, that doesn't bode well for his quality. Alabama was ranked in the top 5 most of the year.

[yosemiteben]

The G League is nothing but a no defense all offense league. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the NCAA, but players like Kai and Bouk can go down there and tear it up and barely get playing time for one of the worst teams in the league (ours)

Have you ever actually looked up offensive efficiency stats for G league teams?

NBA: https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=D&sort=OFF_RATING

G league: https://stats.gleague.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1

I don't see statistical evidence that the G league has higher offensive efficiency than the NBA. Median ORTG and DRTG are both higher in the NBA.

Given that reality, what statistical evidence are you looking at to support this idea that the G league is a no defense all offense league but the NBA is not?

I never said anything about the NBA. I have literally no stats. All I know is that kids can go to the g league and have nba jam type stats that they would never have in college, or perhaps even highschool.

I mean...the vast majority of G league players don't do that. Seems like you are allowing the isolated performances of some actually gifted offensive players color your impression of an entire league.

If teams as a whole scored more than in the NBA, I might buy the argument that there's just relatively worse defense in the G league, but that's not the case.

[Lwcasu]

LaMelo played against G-League if not worse level competition in Australia and wasn’t great, but he improved from the year before in Europe (small sample size, also 18 years old). This is where potential is so important. Is the guy going to have skills that transfer to the NBA? Everyone knew LaMelo could shoot as we had been watching it since middle school, and it was obvious he could do everything else. Scoot is 19 and Miller is 20. LaMelo had a big jump in performance from 17 to 18 and then 18 to 19. This is a difficult pick. My concern with Miller is actually his off the court issue. I just don’t think we need more distractions. I think Miller is probably the better fit in a vacuum but you gotta take the BPA in the NBA at the top of the lottery. I think Scoot is a better prospect and did relatively well at a young age in the g-league. I’m actually not sure Miller would have went top 3 last draft if he entered that draft with the same stats and age. I’m pretty sure Scoot would have went number 1 last year.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37822658/selecting-all-five-charlotte-hornets-2023-nba-draft-picks

"Most NBA teams we've spoken with have Miller over Henderson on their draft board, and it wouldn't surprise anyone if that is the direction the Hornets go on draft night.

Six-foot-9 wings who can initiate, find teammates off a live dribble with either hand, make shots from all over the floor and defend multiple positions are impossible to find in free agency or on the trade market. Having the ability to add that player via the draft, especially for a team like Charlotte, makes perfect sense considering the team's roster composition and the immense potential Miller shows."

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/37822658/selecting-all-five-charlotte-hornets-2023-nba-draft-picks

"Most NBA teams we've spoken with have Miller over Henderson on their draft board, and it wouldn't surprise anyone if that is the direction the Hornets go on draft night.

Six-foot-9 wings who can initiate, find teammates off a live dribble with either hand, make shots from all over the floor and defend multiple positions are impossible to find in free agency or on the trade market. Having the ability to add that player via the draft, especially for a team like Charlotte, makes perfect sense considering the team's roster composition and the immense potential Miller shows."

Once again, dispelling the narrative that Scoot is regarded as the clear cut better player.

[JMAC3]

Brandon Miller expectations early in his career IMO.
Average 15 ppg on decent shooting numbers and be a solid defender.
The thing that will take him over the top will probably be how good of a ball handler he becomes.
If he unlocks that then I think he has the chance to be one of the better wings in the NBA.

If he doesn't then he probably is a slightly better Harrison Barnes which is still a very useful player on a nearly NBA team.

[JustBuzzin]

Brandon Miller expectations early in his career IMO.
Average 15 ppg on decent shooting numbers and be a solid defender.
The thing that will take him over the top will probably be how good of a ball handler he becomes.
If he unlocks that then I think he has the chance to be one of the better wings in the NBA.

If he doesn't then he probably is a slightly better Harrison Barnes which is still a very useful player on a nearly NBA team.

Honestly I can see him becoming a 26ppg player down the line. If he can tune up his dribbling he can be a serious offensive threat. I see him more as a Danny Granger type more than Paul George.

Even Jalen Brown can get 26ppg with below average handles. This is why I think Miller will be just fine even if he never fully develops above average handles.

[Bassman]

The G League is nothing but a no defense all offense league. I'm not saying it's better or worse than the NCAA, but players like Kai and Bouk can go down there and tear it up and barely get playing time for one of the worst teams in the league (ours)

THIS is the one area of comparison I think is most legit relative to GLeague verses college. While college teams may have less pure athleticism and skills compared to the average GL team, they all compete like crazy, particularly on defense. They may not be able to defend great, but they play hard defensively. Coaches also attack opposing team’s best players to smother them, and force others to beat you. GLeague emphasis is on offense…period. Lastly, college games are played in high intensity surroundings with huge emotional support for home teams. Players in GL don’t get that environment, for better or worse.