Sixers Post Mortem Talk (Where Do We Go From Here?)

[ProcessDoctor]

We all agree Maxey + Tobias for Beal is an overpay. What if it's Beal + #8?

[the_process]

There’s a video in youtube that got me thinking about Embiid.

Basically he said how the biggest problem on Embiid on Sixers offense is how it takes a lot of time to set him up then he would survey the court. With surveying the court he would read where his teammates are and where the defense is. Then he would do his move.

The problem is against good teams. Specially in a 7 game series. Teams eventually can figure him out on defense and what his tendencies are. In the moment he surveys the court, the defense also surveys the sixers offense. Where is he likely to kick it out and how they are going to rotate on defense. There’s no “scrambling” on defense moment because everyone knows where to rotate. And whats worse is with all of these action, time is on the defense side and not on Sixers side.

And this is one of the biggest reason why Biid has a hard time on playoffs than reg season. In the reg season, defense is vanilla. Bad teams with not enough familiarity. In the playoffs, mostly good teams and teams eventually has a better read on Sixers and Embiid, and when that moment comes Sixers are in a handicap on offense despite whatever edge we have on talent.

This is where Nurse's effect on what we do offensively is going to be critical, because as a coach who has schemed against Embiid in multiple playoff series, he knows these things as well as anyone.

We ran as unimaginative a scheme, with little adjustment, as could be imagined, as Rivers was content to keep Embiid as the focal point come hell or high water. As you alluded to it was easy to defend once good defenses locked in on Embiid's tendencies.

I would hope that part of Nurse's message to Harden would be that he would be playing much more of a Jamal Murray role in the offense as primarily a scorer as well as distributor. The second part of the equation would be selling Embiid on more of a Joker-esque role but utilizing his own strengths as a finisher against mismatches created by P&R and ball movement. It's still going to come down to improving his decision making, and I can't help but think Nurse will be heavily addressing that.

It was the same problem with Brett back then. I think Biid is just poor and slow at reading and analyzing situations and poor at handling the ball. So he needs space and he needs time to read the situation slower than geniuses like Jokic or LeBron. The guys also couldn’t move because Biid wont be able to locate them so they just stand still

So if you run a Jojo centric offense. The offense has to be very simplified and vanilla plus the pace should be slow. If you do that then its an environment where defense is empowered.

Then for sure you can take risk and experiment, but its quite a boom or bust. But sample size say its likely going to bust for we’ve seen how Biid plays and we have a large sample size that says coaches also feels that they need to simplify the offense and slow the pace for Biid. Then again, im not saying in definite, maybe Nurse can turn it around.

Agreed that Embiid, since he's going to be here, needs to take a step or preferably two back on offense and multiple steps up on defense.

[the_process]

We all agree Maxey + Tobias for Beal is an overpay. What if it's Beal + #8?

Don't do that.

[phillynative]

Btw, how do you guys think Biid should change his game.

To start, I think he should be a better three point shooter. That would empower everyone.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I always feel like our team’s offense looks a lot better if biid is knocking those 3s. It also frees up lane for Maxey for drives.

It will also free up guys like Maxey or Harden to be an initial creator, allowing us to have more movement and pace to our offense. Adding more dimension to our offense, where we can still run some slow paced 2 man game if we’re effective with it.

I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.

For the most part Embiid needs to be a better finisher, we know he has a post game and the mid range is fine when it's there but he should be able to get easy baskets around the rim more frequently and easier than he has. Less holding the ball in the midpost which helps create a stagnant offense.

I also believe he should be a more efficient 3pt shooter just to open up the floor. More pick and pop opportunities out to the 3pt line for Tyrese, who is a slasher at heart. Getting him out the paint to create lanes for slasher makes since considering we aren't a team with many creators. I'm imagining other players like Springer and McDaniels getting more opportunities with Nurse with the ability to get to the rim as well to help diversify the offense.

[ProcessDoctor]

We all agree Maxey + Tobias for Beal is an overpay. What if it's Beal + #8?

Don't do that.

Bruh imma do it

[76ciology]

Btw, how do you guys think Biid should change his game.

To start, I think he should be a better three point shooter. That would empower everyone.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

I always feel like our team’s offense looks a lot better if biid is knocking those 3s. It also frees up lane for Maxey for drives.

It will also free up guys like Maxey or Harden to be an initial creator, allowing us to have more movement and pace to our offense. Adding more dimension to our offense, where we can still run some slow paced 2 man game if we’re effective with it.

I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.

For the most part Embiid needs to be a better finisher, we know he has a post game and the mid range is fine when it's there but he should be able to get easy baskets around the rim more frequently and easier than he has. Less holding the ball in the midpost which helps create a stagnant offense.

I also believe he should be a more efficient 3pt shooter just to open up the floor. More pick and pop opportunities out to the 3pt line for Tyrese, who is a slasher at heart. Getting him out the paint to create lanes for slasher makes since considering we aren't a team with many creators. I'm imagining other players like Springer and McDaniels getting more opportunities with Nurse with the ability to get to the rim as well to help diversify the offense.

I think he has a knee of a mid to late 30 year old guy. I dont want him to jump too much on offense, where he can just save it on the defensive end.

The reason why im hoping Biid can shoot 3s is I find a TRUE stretch 5 is the key for elite offense. This is why Celts pushed for Al at the 5, despite having Rob Williams. And having Brolo, opens up a lot of mismatch for the Bucks that they can even play Tucker-Portis-Giannis at the 2-3-4 positions in that championship run.

They say one of the reasons why Jokic was able to survive in this year’s playoffs is he didn’t had to face a stretch 5, and if you look around the league among the contenders only Brolo and Al are truly the stretch 5s in the league.

Think about it. A really big part of playoffs offense is mostly about how you attack your opponent’s C. Hunt him if he has slow footed. Take pull ups if he drops too much and etc. in G7, Celts decided to attack Biid’s 1v1 offense. They knew he was wounded so they had Tatum attacking him the entire game.

I think having a reliable stretch 5 is key for us to solve our problem on offense and even take our offense to the next level. What more can Biid add to his game? I dont see anything than becoming a better 3pt shooter. Which does not only benefit his knee management but also our offense and our guys.

Once Biid can shoot 3s, it enables us to have more athletic 3-4 guys who aren’t as good as shooters. Just as how it allowed the Nuggets to play Aaron Gordon at the 4. If you look at the numbers, we lack slashers around the rim. Its because this team is built 4 out. Tobias and Tucker are bad cutters and finishers around the rim.

And once Biid can shoot 3s, this also unlocks another dimension to our game. It allows us to play another big with Biid. Maybe Reed+Biid 4&5 finally?

Im also not saying Biid should just camp at the 3pt arc. Rather, Im saying if Biid can shoot 3s, we can be more unpredictable, opens up lanes for guys to dribble drive like how it did for the Celts, get us easy high points per shot attempts around the rim and possibly take our team into another level.

[Arsenal]

I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.

For the most part Embiid needs to be a better finisher, we know he has a post game and the mid range is fine when it's there but he should be able to get easy baskets around the rim more frequently and easier than he has. Less holding the ball in the midpost which helps create a stagnant offense.

I also believe he should be a more efficient 3pt shooter just to open up the floor. More pick and pop opportunities out to the 3pt line for Tyrese, who is a slasher at heart. Getting him out the paint to create lanes for slasher makes since considering we aren't a team with many creators. I'm imagining other players like Springer and McDaniels getting more opportunities with Nurse with the ability to get to the rim as well to help diversify the offense.

I think he has a knee of a mid to late 30 year old guy. I dont want him to jump too much on offense, where he can just save it on the defensive end.

The reason why im hoping Biid can shoot 3s is I find a TRUE stretch 5 is the key for elite defense. This is why Celts pushed for Al at the 5, despite having Rob Williams. And having Brolo, opens up a lot of mismatch for the Bucks that they can even play Tucker-Portis-Giannis at the 2-3-4 positions in that championship run. They say one of the reasons why Jokic was able to survive in this year’s playoffs is he didn’t had to face a stretch 5, and if you look around the league among the contenders only Brolo and Al are truly the stretch 5s in the league.

I think having a reliable stretch 5 is key for us to solve our problem on offense and even take our offense to the next level. What more can Biid add to his game? I dont see anything than becoming a better 3pt shooter. Which does not only benefit his knee management but also our offense and our guys.

Once Biid can shoot 3s, it enables us to have more athletic 3-4 guys who aren’t as good as shooters. Just as how it allowed the Nuggets to play Aaron Gordon at the 4. If you look at the numbers, we lack slashers around the rim. Its because this team is built 4 out. Tobias and Tucker are bad cutters and finishers around the rim.

And once Biid can shoot 3s, this also unlocks another dimension to our game. It allows us to play another big with Biid. Maybe Reed+Biid 4&5 finally?

Im also not saying Biid should just camp at the 3pt arc. Rather, Im saying if Biid can shoot 3s, we can be more unpredictable and possibly take our team into another level.

Agree 100%. Playing 5-Out with Embiid makes us more versatile opening up different lineups and letting us throw different looks at opponents. Another tool in our toolbag for when teams take away our standard offense.

[Iverson Armband]

I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.

For the most part Embiid needs to be a better finisher, we know he has a post game and the mid range is fine when it's there but he should be able to get easy baskets around the rim more frequently and easier than he has. Less holding the ball in the midpost which helps create a stagnant offense.

I also believe he should be a more efficient 3pt shooter just to open up the floor. More pick and pop opportunities out to the 3pt line for Tyrese, who is a slasher at heart. Getting him out the paint to create lanes for slasher makes since considering we aren't a team with many creators. I'm imagining other players like Springer and McDaniels getting more opportunities with Nurse with the ability to get to the rim as well to help diversify the offense.

I think he has a knee of a mid to late 30 year old guy. I dont want him to jump too much on offense, where he can just save it on the defensive end.

The reason why im hoping Biid can shoot 3s is I find a TRUE stretch 5 is the key for elite offense. This is why Celts pushed for Al at the 5, despite having Rob Williams. And having Brolo, opens up a lot of mismatch for the Bucks that they can even play Tucker-Portis-Giannis at the 2-3-4 positions in that championship run.

They say one of the reasons why Jokic was able to survive in this year’s playoffs is he didn’t had to face a stretch 5, and if you look around the league among the contenders only Brolo and Al are truly the stretch 5s in the league.

Think about it. A really big part of playoffs offense is mostly about how you attack your opponent’s C. Hunt him if he has slow footed. Take pull ups if he drops too much and etc. in G7, Celts decided to attack Biid’s 1v1 offense. They knew he was wounded so they had Tatum attacking him the entire game.

I think having a reliable stretch 5 is key for us to solve our problem on offense and even take our offense to the next level. What more can Biid add to his game? I dont see anything than becoming a better 3pt shooter. Which does not only benefit his knee management but also our offense and our guys.

Once Biid can shoot 3s, it enables us to have more athletic 3-4 guys who aren’t as good as shooters. Just as how it allowed the Nuggets to play Aaron Gordon at the 4. If you look at the numbers, we lack slashers around the rim. Its because this team is built 4 out. Tobias and Tucker are bad cutters and finishers around the rim.

And once Biid can shoot 3s, this also unlocks another dimension to our game. It allows us to play another big with Biid. Maybe Reed+Biid 4&5 finally?

Im also not saying Biid should just camp at the 3pt arc. Rather, Im saying if Biid can shoot 3s, we can be more unpredictable, opens up lanes for guys to dribble drive like how it did for the Celts, get us easy high points per shot attempts around the rim and possibly take our team into another level.

Great post.

[spikeslovechild]

if we get Beal without giving up Maxey....I can lie to myself that its actually a good move because I am a sick idiot (and I am too stupid to get the CAP stuff anyway)

The only thing you need to know about the cap is regardless we are going to be over it.

[LeonJordanJr24]

U ain't getting Beal for tobias lol

[mksp]

If we did Harris + pick for Beal, then we trade Melton for a similarly-priced forward...

Harden/Maxey/McClung
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Trade)/McDaniel/House
Tucker/Niang/(project)
Embiid/Reed/Harrell

Not sure how we'd pay Maxey next summer though.

So much loser energy on this team, has no chance of competing. Beal is a non-starter to me. Last kind of guy we need.

Do you take him over Tobias though?

Not with that contract.

[phillynative]

I'm not a fan of Embiid hanging around the 3-pt. line, I'd much rather he be a monster on the offensive glass. We don't need more offense from him, we need more 'little' things that win big games.

For the most part Embiid needs to be a better finisher, we know he has a post game and the mid range is fine when it's there but he should be able to get easy baskets around the rim more frequently and easier than he has. Less holding the ball in the midpost which helps create a stagnant offense.

I also believe he should be a more efficient 3pt shooter just to open up the floor. More pick and pop opportunities out to the 3pt line for Tyrese, who is a slasher at heart. Getting him out the paint to create lanes for slasher makes since considering we aren't a team with many creators. I'm imagining other players like Springer and McDaniels getting more opportunities with Nurse with the ability to get to the rim as well to help diversify the offense.

I think he has a knee of a mid to late 30 year old guy. I dont want him to jump too much on offense, where he can just save it on the defensive end.

The reason why im hoping Biid can shoot 3s is I find a TRUE stretch 5 is the key for elite offense. This is why Celts pushed for Al at the 5, despite having Rob Williams. And having Brolo, opens up a lot of mismatch for the Bucks that they can even play Tucker-Portis-Giannis at the 2-3-4 positions in that championship run.

They say one of the reasons why Jokic was able to survive in this year’s playoffs is he didn’t had to face a stretch 5, and if you look around the league among the contenders only Brolo and Al are truly the stretch 5s in the league.

Think about it. A really big part of playoffs offense is mostly about how you attack your opponent’s C. Hunt him if he has slow footed. Take pull ups if he drops too much and etc. in G7, Celts decided to attack Biid’s 1v1 offense. They knew he was wounded so they had Tatum attacking him the entire game.

I think having a reliable stretch 5 is key for us to solve our problem on offense and even take our offense to the next level. What more can Biid add to his game? I dont see anything than becoming a better 3pt shooter. Which does not only benefit his knee management but also our offense and our guys.

Once Biid can shoot 3s, it enables us to have more athletic 3-4 guys who aren’t as good as shooters. Just as how it allowed the Nuggets to play Aaron Gordon at the 4. If you look at the numbers, we lack slashers around the rim. Its because this team is built 4 out. Tobias and Tucker are bad cutters and finishers around the rim.

And once Biid can shoot 3s, this also unlocks another dimension to our game. It allows us to play another big with Biid. Maybe Reed+Biid 4&5 finally?

Im also not saying Biid should just camp at the 3pt arc. Rather, Im saying if Biid can shoot 3s, we can be more unpredictable, opens up lanes for guys to dribble drive like how it did for the Celts, get us easy high points per shot attempts around the rim and possibly take our team into another level.

Absolutely agree just don't understand why you referenced his knees in response to my post. I didn't say anything about him catching lobs or running the break. He needs to be better finishing around the rim mixed in with being a better 3pt shooter. He overrelied on the middies and when they weren't hitting, the offense suffered. The same can happen with the 3pt shot especially after fatigue which he is prone too. The team was pretty bad at getting him the ball in spots but there was also too many times he had a smaller defender and instead of carving out space for himself to get a better look at the rim he took a fadeaway shot.

[Mik317]

we ran a play last year in which Biid caught the ball on the move at the free throw line....and never did it again.

I think being creative in ways he gets the ball and telling him to shoot it or drive asap instead of pump faking for 20 years is something we can look into more. It can just be slow pick and pops and it can't just be DHO. Too often we find a bread and butter and over use it and have no other plans. I'd also like to see some sets in which Biid is a decoy or even a third option...that will use his gravity and not require him to be the passer/creator on said plays.

I just think the team has taken the tough shot making ability for granted when its just not a sustainable option when teams get a chance to lock in. The key is finding easier looks and the tough shot making becomes a last resort rather than the whole offense. It will protect you from the moments in which Biid gets into his own head and either over complicate things or plays lazily because then not everything HAS to involve him. I don't think its too late either because unlike Harden, Biid can contribute on the other end and can play some off ball. I also push back against this idea that Biid is a my way or the highway kinda guy if only because he spent half of his career having the team built around the needs of another guy lol. And if he is...well oh well... I don't think he becomes untradable next season. I just think trying different **** with a different voice is what the team should be looking to do. If its still the Biid and Harden and everyone stands still show then I don't care anymore lol.

[mjkvol]

If we did Harris + pick for Beal, then we trade Melton for a similarly-priced forward...

Harden/Maxey/McClung
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Trade)/McDaniel/House
Tucker/Niang/(project)
Embiid/Reed/Harrell

Not sure how we'd pay Maxey next summer though.

So much loser energy on this team, has no chance of competing. Beal is a non-starter to me. Last kind of guy we need.

Do you take him over Tobias though?

No. Tobias is an expiring, Beal puts us right back in cap jail again. Plus, he stinks.

[ProcessDoctor]

I am not advocating for Beal. However, if we went that route, here are four "devil's advocate" arguments that could be made for bringing in Beal for Tobias + a pick:

1. He's a 3x All-Star and is perceived as an All-Star by many around the league. I.e. even with his contract, he's still a better asset than Tobias Harris. If things don't work out with this core, I imagine he can be traded as his contract shortens. Paul, Westbrook (x2), Wall, and other bad contracts have been traded.

2. His best shooting seasons were when he played next to a great facilitator in Wall. We have that in Harden. He has also never played next to a big like Embiid. I imagine Beal would look better here than he has lately in Washington.

3. Keeping your superstar happy. You want your team to like and enjoy playing with each other. Denver's speeches last night were about how they play for each other. You could argue Beal is as good as (or better) of a bucket-getter than Murray. If Embiid thinks Beal is the guy he'd sync with, then maybe it's worth a shot for team chemistry reasons.

4. Sigh...it gives you flexibility with Maxey. I am not advocating trading Maxey for Beal. I would not do that. Maxey is an awesome young player and very valuable. But, if Beal is in the fold, and Maxey ends up being no better than Poole or Herro, then you don't feel as obligated to build around him and can get valuable pieces in return for him.

[Skates]

When you drill down to it the biggest problem is the roster being built with no consistency over the years and too many the window is closing moves made following the build around a PG that can’t shoot era.

Does Embiid get hurt too much? Yes. He has an injury history since entering the league, but why is he always hurt in or by the playoffs? Hmmm, could it be the ridiculous ask that your center be both the best offensive and defensive player on the team? And don’t confuse Embiid needing to dominate on defense with perimeter players who can score and defend. They defend their own man and poach passing lanes while the Sixers D is at its best only when Embiid is closing down and dominating the entire lane and rim area to the point that drivers don’t even attempt to shoot over him.

Delivering that level of interior defense while leading the league in scoring is insanely difficult and why Embiid sometimes slacks on D in the regular season and breaks down trying to do both at full speed in the playoffs. It’s too much. Either the team needs to add a true first option scoring-wise or add a player that can provide interior defense playing with Embiid.

The Nuggets added defense around Murray and Jokic to allow them to be special on offense and not break down. Giannis won when Middleton was at the top of his scoring game and with Brook Lopez doing the dirty work on D.

Shaq had two way superstars in Kobe and D Wade beside him, Duncan had Robinson next to him early on, then Manu, Parker and usually a defensive minded big. Hakeem had Otis Thorpe next to him and a bunch of scoring guards eventually including Drexler.

Embiid can win DPOY with less need to score, or keep scoring and choose his spots on D and rebounding, he can’t continue to try to do both and not get exhausted which leads to injury.

The team is now built around his scoring and defending at a continual alpha level and that is not sustainable.

[mjkvol]

When you drill down to it the biggest problem is the roster being built with no consistency over the years and too many the window is closing moves made following the build around a PG that can’t shoot era.

Does Embiid get hurt too much? Yes. He has an injury history since entering the league, but why is he always hurt in or by the playoffs? Hmmm, could it be the ridiculous ask that your center be both the best offensive and defensive player on the team? And don’t confuse Embiid needing to dominate on defense with perimeter players who can score and defend. They defend their own man and poach passing lanes while the Sixers D is at its best only when Embiid is closing down and dominating the entire lane and rim area to the point that drivers don’t even attempt to shoot over him.

Delivering that level of interior defense while leading the league in scoring is insanely difficult and why Embiid sometimes slacks on D in the regular season and breaks down trying to do both at full speed in the playoffs. It’s too much. Either the team needs to add a true first option scoring-wise or add a player that can provide interior defense playing with Embiid.

The Nuggets added defense around Murray and Jokic to allow them to be special on offense and not break down. Giannis won when Middleton was at the top of his scoring game and with Brook Lopez doing the dirty work on D.

Shaq had two way superstars in Kobe and D Wade beside him, Duncan had Robinson next to him early on, then Manu, Parker and usually a defensive minded big. Hakeem had Otis Thorpe next to him and a bunch of scoring guards eventually including Drexler.

Embiid can win DPOY with less need to score, or keep scoring and choose his spots on D and rebounding, he can’t continue to try to do both and not get exhausted which leads to injury.

The team is now built around his scoring and defending at a continual alpha level and that is not sustainable.

Great post, and the first part of the first sentence says it all.

"When you drill down to it the biggest problem is the roster being built with no consistency over the years and too many the window is closing moves."

[mjkvol]

I am not advocating for Beal. However, if we went that route, here are four "devil's advocate" arguments that could be made for bringing in Beal for Tobias + a pick:

1. He's a 3x All-Star and is perceived as an All-Star by many around the league. I.e. even with his contract, he's still a better asset than Tobias Harris. If things don't work out with this core, I imagine he can be traded as his contract shortens. Paul, Westbrook (x2), Wall, and other bad contracts have been traded.

2. His best shooting seasons were when he played next to a great facilitator in Wall. We have that in Harden. He has also never played next to a big like Embiid. I imagine Beal would look better here than he has lately in Washington.

3. Keeping your superstar happy. You want your team to like and enjoy playing with each other. Denver's speeches last night were about how they play for each other. You could argue Beal is as good as (or better) of a bucket-getter than Murray. If Embiid thinks Beal is the guy he'd sync with, then maybe it's worth a shot for team chemistry reasons.

4. Sigh...it gives you flexibility with Maxey. I am not advocating trading Maxey for Beal. I would not do that. Maxey is an awesome young player and very valuable. But, if Beal is in the fold, and Maxey ends up being no better than Poole or Herro, then you don't feel as obligated to build around him and can get valuable pieces in return for him.

Good points, but seriously, do you believe that Bradley Beal is a championship team piece? If Harden stays, we don't need another small shooting guard who plays no defense, we need some real shooters, two-way wings, and a legit backup PG.

I don't like the deal at all, but I wouldn't even consider it unless WAS was the one adding a pick or picks.

[Negrodamus]

I think Beal would work on offense with Maxey and Harden. The three of them would really be able to let it fly, especially with Beal adding gravity that Tobias simply didn’t.

The problem would be on defense. We’d need to start Paul Reed with Embiid because we’re already at a size deficit. Having Tucker out there would get us killed, particularly on the board.

[ProcessDoctor]

I think Beal would work on offense with Maxey and Harden. The three of them would really be able to let it fly, especially with Beal adding gravity that Tobias simply didn’t.

The problem would be on defense. We’d need to start Paul Reed with Embiid because we’re already at a size deficit. Having Tucker out there would get us killed, particularly on the board.

We could ask Embiid to focus on becoming DPOY material and run a guard-centric Easily a top-3 offense with the upside of a top-10 defense depending on the missing pieces.

Roster:

Harden/Maxey/(project)
Beal/Springer/Korkmaz
(Melton trade)/McDaniel/House
Reed/Tucker/Niang
Embiid/(MLE)/Harrell


Rotation:

Harden(32)/Maxey(16)
Beal(32)/Maxey(16)
Melton trade(28)/McDaniel(20)
Reed(24)/Tucker(24)
Embiid(32)/MLE(16)