2018-2023: Who was the better player in this span, Jimmy Butler or Joel Embiid?

GSP · Post #1 » by **GSP** » Mon May 15, 2023 7:36 am

Theyve played with and against each other during these 6 seasons. Both missed a **** load of games.

Embiid made 1 All Nba 1st team, 4 All Nba 2nd teams and 3 All Defensive 2nd teams

Jimmy made 1 All Nba 2nd team, 4 All Nba 3rd teams and 5 All Defensive 2nd teams

Embiid was b2b scoring champ and won Mvp

Then theres the playoffs........Jimmy has made a finals and made Ecf 3x including eliminating Joel in one of the runs. Joel has never made Ecf.

So how do you weight it?

Narigo · Post #2 » by **Narigo** » Mon May 15, 2023 1:50 pm

Clearly Embiid for me

Jimmy was only better than Embiid for two years(2018 and 2020)

Ambrose · Post #3 » by **Ambrose** » Mon May 15, 2023 3:14 pm

If the goal is to win a championship, it's clearly Jimmy Butler. By virtually any other metric it's Embiid.

B_Creamy · Post #4 » by **B_Creamy** » Mon May 15, 2023 3:29 pm

Ambrose wrote:If the goal is to win a championship, it's clearly Jimmy Butler. By virtually any other metric it's Embiid.

So Jimmy is superior by the only metric that matters?

Ambrose · Post #5 » by **Ambrose** » Mon May 15, 2023 3:31 pm

B_Creamy wrote:
Ambrose wrote:If the goal is to win a championship, it's clearly Jimmy Butler. By virtually any other metric it's Embiid.

So Jimmy is superior by the only metric that matters?

Yes.

CodeBreaker · Post #6 » by **CodeBreaker** » Tue May 16, 2023 10:28 am

Narigo wrote:Clearly Embiid for me

Jimmy was only better than Embiid for two years(2018 and 2020)

Owned his arse last year

GSP · Post #7 » by **GSP** » Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:59 pm

Bump now 23 is officially over

therealbig3 · Post #8 » by **therealbig3** » Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:19 pm

Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

MyUniBroDavis · Post #9 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:35 pm

GSP wrote:Bump now 23 is officially over

They both got hurt rip

Himmy Butler > embiid > Jimmy Butler

Cavsfansince84 · Post #10 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:12 am

I think generally speaking in this kind of comparison(a guy who finishes top 2 in mvp voting 3 times vs a guy who is thought of more as a top 10 player) it would have to be the mvp/scoring champ but not only has Jimmy led two teams to the finals but Embiid just has some kind of larger issues imo with regards to leadership and playoff performance. There's something more to it than just his teams not making it out of the second round. So going with Jimmy.

GSP · Post #11 » by **GSP** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:18 am

therealbig3 wrote:Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

Jimmy is far better than Embiid as a playoff performer. And we saw what happened when they played each other last year and Jimmy was far away best player of series w/ Embiid, Harden, Bam, Maxey, Herro. Embiid had better supporting cast and almost always has strong supporting casts in playoffs he just chokes like a $2 whore damn near every playoffs. Or even when they teamed up and Jimmy was going blow for blow w/ playoff Kawhi while Embiid was getting sonned by Marc Gasol

Embiid better in Rs but Jimmy underrated. Playoffs not close Jimmy even for the failures he has has far better series, performances and wins than Embiid can dream of.

GSP · Post #12 » by **GSP** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:21 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I think generally speaking in this kind of comparison(a guy who finishes top 2 in mvp voting 3 times vs a guy who is thought of more as a top 10 player) it would have to be the mvp/scoring champ but not only has Jimmy led two teams to the finals but Embiid just has some kind of larger issues imo with regards to leadership and playoff performance. There's something more to it than just his teams not making it out of the second round. So going with Jimmy.

Jimmy is Reggie of this era way complete different playstyles but meh regular season accolades actually comparable but playoff risers w/ big moments. Reggie historically has been underrated outside of Realgm and Jimmy pre Miami was prolly most underrated player that has gotten his flowers recently

Cavsfansince84 · Post #13 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:23 am

therealbig3 wrote:Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

He isn't in the rs but two finals appearance(neither as a top 4 seed) is not something most top 10ish type players have on their resumes. Then on top of that if you were to list the top 15 playoff series by any player over the last 4 years Jimmy probably has at least 3 of those. Which means he can play like an mvp level player for entire series on a semi consistent basis. Which probably matters more than being considered mvp caliber in the rs.

spree8 · Post #14 » by **spree8** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:25 am

therealbig3 wrote:Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

The guy is playing with 2 fossilized former All-Stars and a bunch of undrafted players. Not to mention his #2 (tied with Bam) scorer was hurt pretty much the whole playoffs. I dunno if that’s really all that much help.

And while that cast really stepped up, you have to credit him and his impact on those guys to elevate their game no?

HeartBreakKid · Post #15 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:44 am

spree8 wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

The guy is playing with 2 fossilized former All-Stars and a bunch of undrafted players. Not to mention his #2 (tied with Bam) scorer was hurt pretty much the whole playoffs. I dunno if that’s really all that much help.

And while that cast really stepped up, you have to credit him and his impact on those guys to elevate their game no?

Or maybe they just don't suck. Being undrafted doesn't mean you suck and people have a very hard time accepting that.

I agree his team is not stacked at all but they're not a bunch of scrubs and I feel like the narrative this post season is that they are. They contributed and did so in series where Butler did not contribute much relative to his role.

spree8 · Post #16 » by **spree8** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 12:49 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
spree8 wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Clearly Embiid.

Butler is getting the "playoff Rondo" protection, where his failures get glossed over, and the amount of help he actually has gets ignored. He's nowhere near an MVP-level player.

The guy is playing with 2 fossilized former All-Stars and a bunch of undrafted players. Not to mention his #2 (tied with Bam) scorer was hurt pretty much the whole playoffs. I dunno if that’s really all that much help.

And while that cast really stepped up, you have to credit him and his impact on those guys to elevate their game no?

Or maybe they just don't suck. Being undrafted doesn't mean you suck and people have a very hard time accepting that.

I agree his team is not stacked at all but they're not a bunch of scrubs and I feel like the narrative this post season is that they are. They contributed and did so in series where Butler did not contribute much relative to his role.

Never said they suck, but the point absolutely has merit.. that’s why people constantly mention it. They’re underdogs that fight hard and perform well as a result, and I believe Jimmy is a very big part of that, as is Spo.

Cavsfansince84 · Post #17 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:53 am

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Or maybe they just don't suck. Being undrafted doesn't mean you suck and people have a very hard time accepting that.

I agree his team is not stacked at all but they're not a bunch of scrubs and I feel like the narrative this post season is that they are. They contributed and did so in series where Butler did not contribute much relative to his role.

Players can definitely become good to great without being drafted but I think the issue with the Heat players is they have almost no track record to speak of outside of this year. There's no record of them having already shown they are solid starter level despite being undrafted. They just sort of got their chance this year and its easy to argue that they aren't really starter material but are being made to look that way due to small samples and Spo/Jimmy/Bam. Much like Reaves may be about to get paid like a quality starter but no one really knows if he can be one yet over a full season.