2019 Kyle Lowry vs. 2023 Jamal Murray

Ambrose · Post #1 » by **Ambrose** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:03 pm

Came from a discussion I had on another board so here we go. Who is the better player?

AdagioPace · Post #2 » by **AdagioPace** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:30 pm

entirely different players.
Murray, high octane scorer.
Lowry made sure that his presence was felt through different means (playmaking, defense, scoring, leadership, ass-presence etc..)

Limiting ourselves to the championship runs I would say Murray was a bit more important in some games but Lowry was more consistently good.
If we include RS it's definitely Lowry

RCM88x · Post #3 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:50 pm

Mostly due to the playoffs, I would have Murray as close but clearly ahead of Lowry.

youngcrev · Post #4 » by **youngcrev** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 9:46 pm

We're talking playoff runs? Murray, and by a pretty large margin. Love me some Kyle Lowry, but it's not close IMO.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #5 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:56 pm

I would side Jamal Murray when healthy. I think what he can bring when paired with an elite playmaker brings too much intrigue.

Just taking a look at their PS runs

23 Murray

24.9 pts per 75 (rTS^% of about 0.5%)

PlayVal-1.1

Backpicks BPM-5.2

RAPTOR-9.2

BPM-4.8

2019 Lowry

IA 15.2 pts per 75 (rTS% of 3.1%)

PlayVal-0.4

Backpicks BPM-4

RAPTOR-6.6

BPM-2.3

I trust Murray more because of his ability to put pressure on the rim with his driving (along with his finishing), while also just being a different tier of shooter from Lowry. And while Murray isn't as good of a pure passer as Lowry, as the PlayVal signal would show you, Murray can exert more Playmaking value because of his sheer threat to score.

Even going back to 2020, I think Murray showed a propensity to do more come PS, because of that scoring gravity.

Murray in the 2020 PS

IA 26.3 pts per 75 (rTS% of 7.3)

PlayVal-1.34

Backpicks BPM-4.67

RAPTOR-8.5

BPM-5.9

Once again, we have an example of Murray exerting notable playmaking value. For example, Lowry only has 1 mark in his career (10 games in 2018), where his PS PlayVal surpassed Murray. We already know that Murry is a better scorer than Lowry, but it is that Murray as a #2 make be expected to create more for others than Lowry as a #2. And overall, we ideally want both guys to be offensive #2 (or #3 if you are lower on them), so their impact in those roles matter a lot to me. The time Lowry exhibited the most playmaking value in 2018, was when he arguably was the best offensive player on the team, however, I don't believe Lowry as your #1 gives you the championship lift you are looking for.

I think chances are Murray's high-end outcome is better, and despite being less of a decision-maker, someone whose highs are enough to push him past 2019 Lowry.

ardee · Post #6 » by **ardee** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:43 pm

It depends on the situation. I think both fit their respective teams better than the other would. If you have a fairly talented team and need a game manager with good leadership, go Lowry. If you need a legit no. 2 scorer who can shoulder a heavy load, go Murray.

Johnny Tomala · Post #7 » by **Johnny Tomala** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:34 pm

Murray by mile. He was cleary #2 on his team, Lowry was not #2 on Raptors.

VanWest82 · Post #8 » by **VanWest82** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:14 pm

Murray had a better postseason run but Lowry was more impactful throughout the full season. Based on raptor war, Murray was 9.3 vs. Lowry was 13.5. Kawhi was a good ceiling raiser for that team, but it was Kyle who acted as the glue and made them go. Murray was more of that ceiling raiser presence. So in some ways, it's a tough comparison because it comes down to what you need and what you value.