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2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1261 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:25 am

return2glory wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
return2glory wrote:
You can got stop. FG% tells you overall how well you shot or don't shot. Anything below 40% is terrible.

Stop watching videos and highlights and think you are a draft expert. Draft experts don't know half the time what they are talking about. Last season you were hyping up Jules Bernard for example. I kept saying he is decent but not that good. I live in the West Coast, so I got to see UCLA play a lot and he was a decent college player, nothing to get excited about.

You hype up about 50 players every upcoming draft. I appreciate your enthusiasm but remember not to go overboard. Watching videos on players is fun but it's only that.

FG% does not tell you how well someone shoots. By that logic, I suppose you think that Robert Williams is the best shooter in the NBA?

Nothing wrong with actually watching film of the prospects play and understanding the context behind their stats.

I never called my self an expert. I'm just talking basketball. If you don't like it, then ignore my posts. Click the foe button. I value everyone's opinion on here. And could care less if you live on the west coast - get off your high horse.

There's plenty of players I'm not as high on. I made a detailed post before about why I'm not as high on Andre Jackson Jr for the Celtics. I'm not as high on Sanogo and Jordan Miller as you are, but I didn't go on a rant talking sh&t to you about why you ranked those guys too high - I didn't say "you need to change your board".

I'm not as high on Drew Peterson as some people on here. Oscar Tshiebwe and Drew Timme have been brought up in here and I explained why I'm not as high on them.

When you have the 35th pick (and you don't know yet who the first 34 picks will be) there's a lot of possibilities. There's at least 20-30 guys you could potentially pick. And that list changes throughout the 6 or so months leading up to the draft. Plus you grab an UDFA and there's another 20 or so guys we could potentially sign for that spot. So there's a lot of guys we could possibly discuss. Sorry if you don't like that? It would be pretty boring if we just talked about the same 2 or 3 guys over and over the whole time.

I'll post what I want.


Breathe. Don't take things so personal. I didn't say I didn't like your draft board. I said he Jackson doesn't belong at 14. That could mean he might be decent at 24 or 28. I didn't think you would get hurt over that.

Personally I don't like GG Jackson's game. Never said I didn't enjoy your posts. Me saying I watch a lot of UCLA games being from the West Coast meant to you I'm on a high horse? East Coast is just as good as the West Coast. I get a chance to see there local games at times, that all that mean.

Robert Williams plays center. He is a high efficient player and leads the league in FG% or is in the top 5 every year. He gets most of his made shots within 3 feet of the basket. Not sure how that fits with Jackson being a bad shooter. Rob doesn't shoot, he dunks or makes layups.

GG Jackson is a terrible shooter for a wing. Not ok or average. Or even good like you said, but terrible. His BBIQ makes Jaylen Brown look like Jokic. 27 assists to 83 TOs for the season.
He averaged 15 points a game on 14 shots, on a bad team. That's very low efficiency.

Now if you say you like his upside, that's one thing. But this team doesn't need a bad shooting, ball hog with extremely low BBIQ. Let a bad team draft him so he can get a few minutes. Not saying he won't turn out to be good because he can be with his size, ball handling and ability to create separation. But for our team, that's a pass for me unless maybe we had about 2nd round pick.

He's not a bad shooter. He's an above average catch and shoot guy. And has displayed very impressive shot making ability for a dude who's 6'9" and a PF / small ball 5 (I wouldn't call him a wing).

We can agree to disagree. I would take him if he's still there at 35. Yes, he has some flaws and some stuff to work on. But he's very young (youngest player in the draft class) so he's earlier in his development. And the upside (could potentially end up being a top 10 or even top 5 player from this draft class) would be too good to pass up, being able to get a guy like that at pick 35.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1262 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:37 am

Hal14 wrote:I don't know why you keep bringing up assist numbers. The guy had HORRIBLE teammates in a VERY tough conference. He had no one to pass the ball to who could make a shot.

There was plenty of times when he made a good pass to a teammate who either missed the shot or got fouled:

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Not only should you stop harping on his assist % so much, but it even makes less since to compare his assist % to NBA vets - many of whom have been in the NBA for 10+ years. C'mon now, GG was only 17 yrs old when this season started!

He should be graduating high school right now. Let's try taking the top bigs in HS basketball right now and throw them out there on the worst team in the Big 12 and see how they do. I'm willing to bet their assist % won't be very high.

GG could end up being a very good passer - he's still so young, so early in his development. He'll be able to show his passing when he's out there with more talented teammates in the NBA.

Last year in HS when he actually had talented teammates (in relation to the players on the other team) no one said anything about his lack of assists. Here's some footage from HS, we see some nice passes at :47 and at 3:12


How many 6'9" freshmen who are only 18 have you seen make passes like this out of the PnR? And this is against the #2 team in college basketball!
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Does GG have flaws? Yes, of course. Every prospect does. Some of the decision making needs work, some of the defensive needs to be cleaned up. But all of that stuff (his flaws) I am already taking all of that into account when making my evaluation and ranking. If he had better shooting efficiency, less defensive mistakes and better passing numbers, he'd be a top 5 pick - maybe even top 3.

But he's got some flaws and that's why I have him ranked 14th. Sure he's got flaws, but the combination of handle, shot creation ability, shot making ability, ability to operate as the ball handler or the roll man out of PnR (or even pop out to shoot in pick n pop), ability to score on all 3 levels, good cutter, good lob target with a strong frame, good athleticism - doing all of that at 6'9", and only 18 yrs old (youngest player in the draft class) is enough for me to rank him 14th.

GG was the #1 ranked HS player in the country before he reclassified:
https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/where-kentuckys-basketball-targets-sit-in-on3s-new-2023-rankings/

My point is that his feel for the game is so utterly lacking that it will always hold him back from being a NBA player so the rest of his skill set is irrelevant. You can make a bunch of excuses for him (age, teammates, whatever) but my experience is that dumb people stay dumb even when their circumstances improve. The stats I've provided are merely illustrations of how big of a negative outlier he is when it comes to playmaking.

Now you don't seem to agree with my take and that's perfectly fine, healthy debate is what this forum should be built on. Hopefully you'll respect the fact that showing me three instances of him making the simplest possible reads on a basketball floor isn't going to quell my concerns about his basketball IQ either. I don't root for people to fail so I actually hope I'm wrong but I would be shocked if he's still in the league 5 years from now.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1263 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:14 pm

Seems like a good kid with good head on his shoulders to me:



In this interview he presents himself well. Well spoken and even does a nice job at 2:25 of acknowledging some of the stuff he has to work on.

Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1264 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:06 pm

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:Hopefully you'll respect the fact that showing me three instances of him making the simplest possible reads on a basketball floor isn't going to quell my concerns about his basketball IQ either.

You call it the most simple read in basketball, but what other 6'9" freshman big men are handling the ball out on the perimeter, running PnR, making a pocket pass on time and on target to the roll man, leading to a dunk, vs the #2 ranked team in all of college basketball?

Not many, that's for sure.

High major college teams aren't letting 6'9" bigs run PnR. Because they don't have the ability to do so. GG does.

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:his feel for the game is so utterly lacking that it will always hold him back from being a NBA player so the rest of his skill set is irrelevant.

I would be shocked if he's still in the league 5 years from now.

Sure, if that's your opinion - whatever. We can agree to disagree.

But it just seems like you're basing your entire opinion on his usage, assist and turnover stats and comparing his stats as an 18 year old (was only 17 when the season started) freshman in those categories to 10-year NBA veterans, some of which are future hall of famers. Which to me makes zero sense.

Hell, taking GG's stats in those categories and comparing them to anybody is an apples to oranges comparison. We literally have never seen a situation like GG before. We've never seen a kid enter college at such a young age (17 when the season started, he played 1/3 of his season before turning 18), play in a conference as tough as the SEC, on a team with such bad teammates where he was the team's best player and had to create a lot of his own shots and faced constant double teams.

These aren't excuses. They're facts. It's what really happened.

We've literally never seen this before. There's nothing to compare it to. Any comparison you try to make where you take his usage, assist or turnover numbers (or shooting splits) and try to compare them to other players is apples to oranges.

That's why I take the numbers with a grain of salt.

I factor them in, sure. I don't completely ignore them. That's why I don't have him ranked in the top 10. Typically, a guy who's the youngest player in the draft class, who can handle the ball like he GG can, shoot it like he can, attack off the bounce, score on all 3 levels, has a bag that's as deep as GG's is to create space, get shots off, get to his spots, can operate as the PnR ball handler or roll man, can be a lob threat, projects to be at least a league average defender, has good athleticism, a strong frame and a 7'0" wingspan. Typically a guy like that is going top 5 in the draft - maybe #1 (he was projected to go #1 in the 2024 draft before he reclassified to 2023).

This season, GG was about the same age as Wembanyama was last season, in 21-22. Now obviously, Wemby did face tougher competition but GG faced very tough competition as well. And I'm assuming Wemby had more talent on his team (making things a little bit easier for Wemby) than GG had on his South Carolina team..plus, Wemby (playing center) didn't have to create as many of his own shots, and obviously got to take a larger % of his shots closer to the basket (which also makes it easier for him).

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Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1265 » by Cricket23 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:23 pm

Man if that kid falls to 35 then Boston has to take him. I just don't see it happening, he's going to be a force before long. There's just so much to like there.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1266 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 3:21 pm

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Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1267 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:28 pm

Will Emoni Bates be there at 35?
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1268 » by Celts17Pride » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:34 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:Will Emoni Bates be there at 35?

He will be there at 50
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1269 » by Larry_Russell » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:57 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Larry_Russell wrote:Will Emoni Bates be there at 35?

He will be there at 50



I still believe in the kid.

He can score in bunches
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1270 » by jonige94 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:59 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
Larry_Russell wrote:Will Emoni Bates be there at 35?

He will be there at 50



I still believe in the kid.

He can score in bunches

He's a nutcase.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1271 » by Hal14 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 9:11 pm

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Nothing wrong with having a different opinion - as long as it's done respectfully. It'd be lame if we all agreed on everything :)
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1272 » by Kalela » Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:24 am

A wing version of Draymond Green is a good way to describe Andre Jackson. I don't know if he will ever become a star player but he is the kind of smart role player winning teams always have.

Edit: Extend Mazzulla
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1273 » by playa-hater » Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:22 pm

DP
2 things need to go.. my lack of spell check and Joe.. :nod:
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1274 » by playa-hater » Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:24 pm

I said this like twenty pages ago so time to say it again.. We should be looking at talent all over this draft ... No one really knows if anyone Stevend makes a trade and gets a first round pick.

Most of the guys we are looking at a late first And early second round picks...

Don't be surprised is all I am saying..

No matter what you think of Stevens one thing cannot be denied.. The man knows how to work in stealth mode.
2 things need to go.. my lack of spell check and Joe.. :nod:
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1275 » by Half-Full » Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:52 pm

Had no idea about this guy until Hal posted a video about him. I gotta say, I really like what I see. Hal had suggested he would make a nice addition as an undrafted free agent, but not worth the 35 pick. I don't know. As I said before, I think he is worth consideration for our pick. Check out this video, and the one Hal previously posted. There's much to like about his game.

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1276 » by Kalela » Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:06 pm

Nnaji has elite measurements.

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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1277 » by Larry_Russell » Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:08 pm

Kalela wrote:Nnaji has elite measurements.

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Wow.

Get em
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1278 » by Hal14 » Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:51 pm

Larry_Russell wrote:
Kalela wrote:Nnaji has elite measurements.

Read on Twitter



Wow.

Get em

I doubt Nnaji falls to 35 but if he does, you take him. Really think long term he could be a top 10 center in the league - and possibly an all-defensive team guy.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1279 » by lon3lytoaster » Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:40 am

Hal14 wrote:
Larry_Russell wrote:
Kalela wrote:Nnaji has elite measurements.

Read on Twitter



Wow.

Get em

I doubt Nnaji falls to 35 but if he does, you take him. Really think long term he could be a top 10 center in the league - and possibly an all-defensive team guy.


Was this the kid you were comparing to Jalen Duren a little? Great measureables.. Duren was one of the most impressive 18 year olds I’ve ever seen physically. Anything close to that would be amazing.

I haven’t paid much attention to the draft the last couple of years since well.. we haven’t had any picks to write home about but I’d be really excited for a few late first-early second guys potentially on the board. Or moving up with our pick and Pritchard if possible.
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Re: 2023 NBA Draft – Thurs, 8PM, June 22 

Post#1280 » by Parliament10 » Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:44 am

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