Portland #3 trade rumors part 2

[GooniesNeverDie]

Also mentioned ATL has interest in Pascal but I don’t see anything enticing there


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[kalel123]

George's assist rate was 22%. Miller's was 12%. Then you factor in defense where George had monster steal and block rates for his position whereas Miller is far behind. Miller was also a very old freshman. He's going to be 21 in like 5 months. He's old enough to be going into his senior year next year.

I like Miller though and think he's going to be a great player but there are certainly a lot of factors that could prevent him from being an all-star caliber player.

Are you talking about George at college? George wasn't projected very high coming out and shot up to #10 after workouts. A bit hard to believe what he did in college was anything to write home about or meaningfully quantifiable to what translates to in the league.

[Lockdown504090]

OG AND Siakam for #3 lol whoaaaaaaa

Does Portland at least buy as a drink first?

lmao

All simons can do is score. he's basically a better version of GTJ. no defense no playmaking. he's more closer to a 6th man than a budding star lol

only reason GTJ was starting for the Raptors is because the Raptors suck.

Gtj is also a much better defender than Simons. Let that sink in.

simons hasnt had a chance to be a good defender yet, he hasnt been coached on that end, and hes been playing beside dame nurking and a whole host of other bad defernders on a team thats tanking. all these criticism applied to book before he got a good team as well. if we are taking a gamble on a draft pick, why not take another one on a guy that shot 9 3s per game on good efficency, with great physical tools as well? we have to do some of the work ourselves here.when did we get too good to develop players? This could end up being like the jazz getting lauri markanen

also, we dont have the leverage people think.... these guys are unrestricted free agents who have both had reports of their discontent in the media(whether its true or not)

[LoveMyRaps]

Siakam is very much available.

Again, fully expect him to be traded this off-season.

[MoneyBall]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

[Los_29]

George's assist rate was 22%. Miller's was 12%. Then you factor in defense where George had monster steal and block rates for his position whereas Miller is far behind. Miller was also a very old freshman. He's going to be 21 in like 5 months. He's old enough to be going into his senior year next year.

I like Miller though and think he's going to be a great player but there are certainly a lot of factors that could prevent him from being an all-star caliber player.

Miller wasn't asked to be a distributor on a Bama team that often ran with 2 PGs or combo guards - Oats loves his guards and his offense revolves arounds them. Despite that his assist numbers are close to PG's college career. George was a jump shooter, and NOT a creator in college. He had to learn that in NBA. Miller had covid season that's why he's 20. Paul George was also 20 when he came out of the draft. Miller added to his game quite a bit in 1 year of college. Miller needs to add strength. But that'll come with physical maturity. In 3 years he should be much stronger than now.

Is he an all-star calibre player? I don't know yet not you not the scouts nor NBA GMs. That will depend on HIM. Just as it did with Paul George, Kawhi, etc. Nobody picked PG and Kawhi to be all-stars when they got drafted. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone where they did either. Does he have weaknesses? Heck who doesn't. Not even Bron was perfect when he came into the league. He had to change and evolve over time in the league. Learn to shoot the ball in Miami. Learn to be a distributor. Play defense better. So it's up to the kid.

George had just turned 20 though. Miller is going to be 21 this November. George's assist rate was 22% as a 19 year old sophomore. Miller's assist rate was 12% as a 20 year old freshman. I don't think Miller is a bad playmaker or anything though and he can certainly get much better at.

You're right, none of us know but with George his athleticism, defensive awareness and steal and block rates gave him the potential to be an elite defensive player. Miller hasn't shown that. Kawhi was a freak and it's pretty crazy he slipped that far in the draft. Monstrous rebounding numbers, incredible steal and block rates to go along with an excellent frame and great athleticism.

But I like Miller, I've seen the Middleton comparisons and I like that comparison for him. I get Middleton vibes when watching him. There is also a chance he becomes much better than Middleton but that would involve him developing in some areas that are quite hard to improve upon and that's why I don't really see him becoming a player like Paul George.

I can see why getting the 4th or 7th pick would be better. Not because Miller won't be as good as those guys but because the price to acquire the 4th or 7th pick would be much cheaper than getting a top 3 pick.

[___Rand___]

George's assist rate was 22%. Miller's was 12%. Then you factor in defense where George had monster steal and block rates for his position whereas Miller is far behind. Miller was also a very old freshman. He's going to be 21 in like 5 months. He's old enough to be going into his senior year next year.

I like Miller though and think he's going to be a great player but there are certainly a lot of factors that could prevent him from being an all-star caliber player.

Miller wasn't asked to be a distributor on a Bama team that often ran with 2 PGs or combo guards - Oats loves his guards and his offense revolves arounds them. Despite that his assist numbers are close to PG's college career. George was a jump shooter, and NOT a creator in college. He had to learn that in NBA. Miller had covid season that's why he's 20. Paul George was also 20 when he came out of the draft. Miller added to his game quite a bit in 1 year of college. Miller needs to add strength. But that'll come with physical maturity. In 3 years he should be much stronger than now.

Is he an all-star calibre player? I don't know yet not you not the scouts nor NBA GMs. That will depend on HIM. Just as it did with Paul George, Kawhi, etc. Nobody picked PG and Kawhi to be all-stars when they got drafted. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone where they did either. Does he have weaknesses? Heck who doesn't. Not even Bron was perfect when he came into the league. He had to change and evolve over time in the league. Learn to shoot the ball in Miami. Learn to be a distributor. Play defense better. So it's up to the kid.

George had just turned 20 though. Miller is going to be 21 this November. George's assist rate was 22% as a 19 year old sophomore. Miller's assist rate was 12% as a 20 year old freshman. I don't think Miller is a bad playmaker or anything though and he can certainly get much better at.

You're right, none of us know but with George his athleticism, defensive awareness and steal and block rates gave him the potential to be an elite defensive player. Miller hasn't shown that. Kawhi was a freak and it's pretty crazy he slipped that far in the draft. Monstrous rebounding numbers, incredible steal and block rates to go along with an excellent frame and great athleticism.

But I like Miller, I've seen the Middleton comparisons and I like that comparison for him. I get Middleton vibes when watching him. There is also a chance he becomes much better than Middleton but that would involve him developing in some areas that are quite hard to improve upon and that's why I don't really see him becoming a player like Paul George.

I can see why getting the 4th or 7th pick would be better. Not because Miller won't be as good as those guys but because the price to acquire the 4th or 7th pick would be much cheaper than getting a top 3 pick.

So you're going to make an issue on a draft pick because he's a few months older than his comp? Do you know how hair-brained that is when we picked Pascal at 22 and had ZERO skills? A few months don't make ZERO difference to an NBA career!

George was 10th pick who turned out better than people thought. Kawhi was even more raw than Miller coming out of college offensively. So they were fine where they were picked. That's what people aren't getting. It depends on the guy, and the coaching he's going to get. I don't know if Miller's all star but he's the 2nd most polished player coming out this draft. This kid's already shown vast improvement in one year so he's shown how he can improve with professional coaching. That's what's exciting about this kid. Scoot hasn't shown any improvement through G-League season. That's a concern and a red flag as far as I'm concerned. At this age, you gotta be learning and improving.

[TorontoBarneys]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

If one of the primary initial reasons for obtaining Poeltl was to pair him with Siakam again then, hopefully, Masai isn't succumbing to sunk cost fallacy and is willing to deal Siakam if it makes sense and convince Poeltl to stay regardless of what happens.

I mean, we have Jakob's bird rights, no? Worst case we match and retain him no matter what, and can then trade him at the deadline to retain value if he truly wants out.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

lmao

All simons can do is score. he's basically a better version of GTJ. no defense no playmaking. he's more closer to a 6th man than a budding star lol

only reason GTJ was starting for the Raptors is because the Raptors suck.

Gtj is also a much better defender than Simons. Let that sink in.

simons hasnt had a chance to be a good defender yet, he hasnt been coached on that end, and hes been playing beside dame nurking and a whole host of other bad defernders on a team thats tanking. all these criticism applied to book before he got a good team as well. if we are taking a gamble on a draft pick, why not take another one on a guy that shot 9 3s per game on good efficency, with great physical tools as well? we have to do some of the work ourselves here.when did we get too good to develop players? This could end up being like the jazz getting lauri markanen

also, we dont have the leverage people think.... these guys are unrestricted free agents who have both had reports of their discontent in the media(whether its true or not)

Simon’s not being coached to be a good defender …. Is laughable. It’s instincts. I mean the dude has been playing basketball his whole life.

[bballsparkin]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

Jakob, Siakam, Barnes is horrible spacing though. Me thinks something has to give.

[PhilBlackson]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

If one of the primary initial reasons for obtaining Poeltl was to pair him with Siakam again then, hopefully, Masai isn't succumbing to sunk cost fallacy and is willing to deal Siakam if it makes sense and convince Poeltl to stay regardless of what happens.

I mean, we have Jakob's bird rights, no? Worst case we match and retain him no matter what, and can then trade him at the deadline to retain value if he truly wants out.

But on top of that, it's not like management knew at the deadline they'd be offered an opportunity to trade for Scoot...

It's being offered a prime DRose with potentially/likely better passing for 8+ years with a HIGHER ceiling for the team (and maybe beyond since you're teaming him up with another young star, who's to say they wouldn't stick around for majority of their careers?!) for maybe 4-5 years of Siakam with a fairly established ceiling because oh no you traded for Jakob frickin Poeltl.

He's a damn solid C, I give him that. But I'm not passing on an opportunity of damn near guaranteed franchise player that projects to be even (potentially way) better than Pascal himself because of a good role player (who is still incredibly likely to be retained just due to the financial aspect of it).

Don't make too much out the draft pick because the 2024 draft class is looking HISTORICALLY bad, like pitiful. There's an EXTREMELY low chance that outside of the top 6, SAS drafts a kid that goes on to be an all-star. Not to mention it was ANOTHER move (wasted a 1st rd the previous year on Thad Old) that was used to silence both the players and the media saying they didn't get a fair chance, they did and they were still incredibly mediocre. Spelling out, it's time to move on for that exact reason, at minimum it validates the decision.

[Thaddy]

So we rejected 7th for OG, there is no way we can reject 3rd for OG. Henderson would change the Raptors offensive dynamics especially if we run a two PG line up. I would prefer a big guard at the 2 instead but statistically a big guard will struggle defending the POA.

I think Henderson will have defensive issues as well. A lot of guys with huge wingspans have lateral quickness issues due to their anatomy. If Miller is picked 2nd we will likely go with Scoot + for OG.

POR: 3rd, 23rd, Simons for OG, 10th (trade for another piece later or add a fourth team now)
DAL: 10 + Bertans + Bullock for Boucher + Simons (a fourth team makes sense here they have no use for Simons)
TOR: OG, Boucher for Scoot + Bertans + Bullock + 23rd

Poeltl - Koloko
Siakam - Achiuwa - Bertans
Barnes - Bullock
Henderson - Coulibaly (13th)
FVV - Cissoko (23rd)

Trade Boucher for a shooter like Bullock?

[MoneyBall]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

If one of the primary initial reasons for obtaining Poeltl was to pair him with Siakam again then, hopefully, Masai isn't succumbing to sunk cost fallacy and is willing to deal Siakam if it makes sense and convince Poeltl to stay regardless of what happens.

I mean, we have Jakob's bird rights, no? Worst case we match and retain him no matter what, and can then trade him at the deadline to retain value if he truly wants out.

We have Jakob's bird rights but he's still unrestricted, we don't get to just match his contract. In any case, I'm not too worried about him walking away this summer.

If we trade Siakam for prospects we're looking lottery bound, which is a hard pill to swallow given that we traded away our 2024 pick. Masai knew that when he made the trade. There's not much that has happened between the deadline and today that would make me think Masai regrets making the trade. I really don't think Masai is thinking rebuild at all. Sure, it could happen if he gets an offer he can't refuse, but I seriously doubt that's gonna happen.

[Lockdown504090]

Gtj is also a much better defender than Simons. Let that sink in.

simons hasnt had a chance to be a good defender yet, he hasnt been coached on that end, and hes been playing beside dame nurking and a whole host of other bad defernders on a team thats tanking. all these criticism applied to book before he got a good team as well. if we are taking a gamble on a draft pick, why not take another one on a guy that shot 9 3s per game on good efficency, with great physical tools as well? we have to do some of the work ourselves here.when did we get too good to develop players? This could end up being like the jazz getting lauri markanen

also, we dont have the leverage people think.... these guys are unrestricted free agents who have both had reports of their discontent in the media(whether its true or not)

Simon’s not being coached to be a good defender …. Is laughable. It’s instincts. I mean the dude has been playing basketball his whole life.

so how did fultz? lots of guys have done it with those tools.

[MoneyBall]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

Jakob, Siakam, Barnes is horrible spacing though. Me thinks something has to give.

Masai knew it was bad spacing and yet still pulled the trigger on the trade. I don't think he would have made the trade if he thought it would force him to trade Siakam. Unless he had already made up his mind he was going to trade Siakam...but then why would he have traded the 2024 pick with little protection if he knew we were going to rebuild?

I don't know, it really doesn't look like he's actively shopping Siakam unless it's for an upgrade.

[MoneyBall]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

If one of the primary initial reasons for obtaining Poeltl was to pair him with Siakam again then, hopefully, Masai isn't succumbing to sunk cost fallacy and is willing to deal Siakam if it makes sense and convince Poeltl to stay regardless of what happens.

I mean, we have Jakob's bird rights, no? Worst case we match and retain him no matter what, and can then trade him at the deadline to retain value if he truly wants out.

But on top of that, it's not like management knew at the deadline they'd be offered an opportunity to trade for Scoot...

It's being offered a prime DRose with potentially/likely better passing for 8+ years with a HIGHER ceiling for the team (and maybe beyond since you're teaming him up with another young star, who's to say they wouldn't stick around for majority of their careers?!) for maybe 4-5 years of Siakam with a fairly established ceiling because oh no you traded for Jakob frickin Poeltl.

He's a damn solid C, I give him that. But I'm not passing on an opportunity of damn near guaranteed franchise player that projects to be even (potentially way) better than Pascal himself because of a good role player (who is still incredibly likely to be retained just due to the financial aspect of it).

Don't make too much out the draft pick because the 2024 draft class is looking HISTORICALLY bad, like pitiful. There's an EXTREMELY low chance that outside of the top 6, SAS drafts a kid that goes on to be an all-star. Not to mention it was ANOTHER move (wasted a 1st rd the previous year on Thad Old) that was used to silence both the players and the media saying they didn't get a fair chance, they did and they were still incredibly mediocre. Spelling out, it's time to move on for that exact reason, at minimum it validates the decision.

Not having your own FRP the first year you decide to gut the team and rebuild is demoralizing and high risk. It's not that it can't happen, or won't happen, it's that I think it's unlikely.

[bballsparkin]

Masai knew it was bad spacing and yet still pulled the trigger on the trade. I don't think he would have made the trade if he thought it would force him to trade Siakam. Unless he had already made up his mind he was going to trade Siakam...but then why would he have traded the 2024 pick with little protection if he knew we were going to rebuild?

I don't know, it really doesn't look like he's actively shopping Siakam unless it's for an upgrade.

Sure. Then Barnes should be on the table imho. OG too. I wouldn't say he's actively shopping Siakam because the price will be high.
Ultimately something will have to be done. Doesn't seem like the 2024 draft is valued that highly. And if one things us Raptor fans know is Masai is going to take his time.

It shall be an interesting off season. Fingers crossed another team makes a compelling offer that is acceptable.

[NinjaBro]

Doesn't make sense to me that they'd trade Siakam shortly after aquiring Poeltl for our 2024 FRP with light protection.

Jakob, Siakam, Barnes is horrible spacing though. Me thinks something has to give.

Masai knew it was bad spacing and yet still pulled the trigger on the trade. I don't think he would have made the trade if he thought it would force him to trade Siakam. Unless he had already made up his mind he was going to trade Siakam...but then why would he have traded the 2024 pick with little protection if he knew we were going to rebuild?

I don't know, it really doesn't look like he's actively shopping Siakam unless it's for an upgrade.

Masai's isn't trading Siakam. Pascal is his African son and masai has bigger ambitions for Africa and himself than just the raptors. For that to work, Siakam has to succeed in toronto. It will take a miracle for Masai to trade his son.

[MoneyBall]

Masai knew it was bad spacing and yet still pulled the trigger on the trade. I don't think he would have made the trade if he thought it would force him to trade Siakam. Unless he had already made up his mind he was going to trade Siakam...but then why would he have traded the 2024 pick with little protection if he knew we were going to rebuild?

I don't know, it really doesn't look like he's actively shopping Siakam unless it's for an upgrade.

Sure. Then Barnes should be on the table imho. OG too. I wouldn't say he's actively shopping Siakam because the price will be high.
Ultimately something will have to be done. Doesn't seem like the 2024 draft is valued that highly. And if one things us Raptor fans know is Masai is going to take his time.

It shall be an interesting off season. Fingers crossed another team makes a compelling offer that is acceptable.

I'm open to change. I love Siakam but last season was brutal to watch.

I generally don't put much stock into draft projections over a year away. Apart from the top 3, this 2023 draft has been marked as a weak draft as well, and yet we still highly value our 13th pick for good reason.

[MoneyBall]

Jakob, Siakam, Barnes is horrible spacing though. Me thinks something has to give.

Masai knew it was bad spacing and yet still pulled the trigger on the trade. I don't think he would have made the trade if he thought it would force him to trade Siakam. Unless he had already made up his mind he was going to trade Siakam...but then why would he have traded the 2024 pick with little protection if he knew we were going to rebuild?

I don't know, it really doesn't look like he's actively shopping Siakam unless it's for an upgrade.

Masai's isn't trading Siakam. Pascal is his African son and masai has bigger ambitions for Africa and himself than just the raptors. For that to work, Siakam has to succeed in toronto. It will take a miracle for Masai to trade his son.

I can't tell if you're completely serious but I'd say the jury is still out on Masai being able to prudently and proactively trade and/or let go of his own guys. He really does seem attached to the guys he brings in, be it via draft or trade.